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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
This is my first posting on thirdgen, as I just bought an '88 IROC-Z 5.7 TPI just this past week, after wanting one for 30 years.
My VIN is 1G1FP2189JL177***
What's gotten me confused is my car seems to have more in common with '87 IROC-Z's I've seen has "IROC-Z" callouts on the lower rockers, and rear bumper, mine say "Z28".
E
Under the hood, though, is where I've pretty confused. Every '88 I've found online seems to have the serpentine drive belt, with the air conditioner compressor on the passenger's side of the car. My car has the older "V" belt setup, with the air conditioner compressor on the driver's side.
It seemed pretty unlikely to me that if someone had replaced the engine, they would have used the earlier style drive belts, then modified everything to line up and work, particularly the air conditioner, which works well in the car.
I can hazard some guesses, but will leave that to 1988 experts. I can say we'll be interested in photos! I ask for photos in a positive sense, as I'm also curious what you find out.
Unfortunately, I had to fly out on company business less than 18 hours after buying the car. I only have one picture with me. I get back home next week.
Maybe they snagged a new motor with a complete accessory setup and figured if it ain't broke don't fix and plopped it in. Or possibly an extremely early 88 year car. Maybe it's just an in between car.
obvious the car has been redone .. if the bodyside moldings are original its a 1988 .. maybe they left the interior alone .. if they are original , pics of the seats or door panels would help us tell you what it is ..
The door moldings are also 1988. The car has been repainted because that's not a factory 1987 or 1988 Z28 color. It is a sport coupe/RS color though. The Z28 emblems on the lower rocker panel is 1985-1987. They were IROC-Z emblems in 1988-1990. The rear bumper should also say IROC-Z. They sell complete repro sets on ebay, so after the repaint, the owner probably purchased what looked best for this color.
I would say that the car could be a Sport Coupe, with the silver ground effects painted blue to match the car. The Sport Coupe also had "CAMARO" emblems, so to make the car appear better, they may have added Z28 emblems. Look in the center console for the SPID label and look for Z28 on it. If it's there, the car has been completely repainted and emblems replaced. If not, it's a Sport Coupe that was mad to look like an IROC-Z.
BTW, the Sport Coupe was not available with the 5.7L TPI, so more information about your car and we could tell you exactly what happened here.
*** I just remembered that you posted the VIN above. The VIN denotes this as a 5.7L, so it is an IROC-Z. The repaint is a non-IROC-Z color. Now the question comes into why it has the v belt. That ended in 1987.
Last edited by scottmoyer; 09-15-2015 at 01:01 PM.
Here are the things I noticed on the car with only one picture to go by and the Vin#
1. The 10th digit of the Vin# is a J so the car was built as an '88.
2. The 8th digit of the Vin# is an 8 so it is a 5.7 automatic available only on IROCs.
3. The color of the car isn't original for '88 that color was available on the sport coupe.
4. The front side lights should be the yellow color not clear.
5. The stripe isn't correct for an IROC.
6. From this angle the fog lights look like they are on the wrong sides, left and right.
7. The nose emblem is correct for '88 with the bow-tie being chrome and not black as the '85-'86 bow-tie part of the nose emblem was with the exception of the berlinettas being gold during the years they were produced, also the 5th Vin digit is an S on those.
8. The antenna should also be black and not chrome to be original that is about all I can find with one picture to look at.
I personally like that shade of blue on third gens and I think the car looks great and was repainted well. A picture of your RPOs would tell us the original color that the car was.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; 09-16-2015 at 09:30 AM.
I'm traveling at the moment, in Haines Junction in the Yukon, headed to Skagway.
In my brief time with the car, I did get a chance to look at the RPO numbers, the sticker was not on the console lid, but stuck on the passenger side of the inside console box, easily read by the driver. I wish I had taken a picture, but had little time before leaving for the trip. I definitely did see RPO Z28 listed.
One other possible oddity, the car has rear drum brakes. .I was under the impression that 5.7's required rear discs.
The car is an '88 IROC-Z, determined by the VIN. No questions about that. It's possible that a previous owner had an engine issue and replaced it with whatever he could get his hands on, thus the pre-'88 engine in there. I would verify if the car is still a 350 though. The 305 and 350 TPI engines are externally identical. With the number of changes made to this car, anything is possible today. It looks very nice and should be fun to cruise in, so enjoy it.
The Camaro build sequence of 77,### will put it out of early production territory. There may be a VIN stamped on the block to indicate '87 build sequence for the donor car, and/or identify that you have the original motor with replaced belt system (less likely but worth a look). I don't know if block stamps include the date code or car assembly plant. [or Camaro vs. Firebird donor??]
Thanks for all the input. I probably should have waited until I was back home, and near the car.
Someone seems to have taken nice care of the car, and since I bought it with the intention of driving it, absolute originality wasn't an overriding issue.
I'm almost embarrassed, though to admit what I paid, but I specifically wanted a TPI car with T-tops. The overall condition and color are a bit of a bonus. Most of these cars I see these days are either low-mileage, and unaffordable, or basket cases.
THere should be VIN decals on the Doors, quarters, hatch, on the front bumper support (on the top) the bottom of the rear bumper support, under the hood.
Check these places to see if the VIN on these matches the VIN on the windshield.
On the Drivers Door there is also a decal that would also have the VIN, it is with the Tire specifications or the certificate of manufacture sticker on the rear of the door.
Hopefully they have not been painted over or removed...
Still in Alaska, but my son took a picture of the sheet. I did have it posted, but it occurred to me posting the car VIN wouldn't be such a hot idea.
Here's what I found:
The car was originally black.
It did originally have 4 wheel disc. Posi, 2.77 rear gear ratio. I'm guessing since there are drums back there now, the original rear axle is gone, too.
Definitely an L98 IROC...haven't noticed if the KC4 oil cooler listed is still there or not.
Still no clue on the pre '88 drive belts. I'm wondering if at some point, the car was stripped, or if someone simply replaced stuff without worrying about originality.
It being a driver, as long as it's done right mechanically, I'm not terribly worried.
Last edited by Galaxie500XL; 09-19-2015 at 07:57 PM.
Posting your VIN online isn't an issue as many would like to think. Having pictures with your license plate is also not really an issue. The VIN can be looked up by anyone that walks up to the car and the license plate is seen by thousands every time you drive it.
The 2.77 gear came standard on IROC-Zs in '88. The 3.27 was optional with the G92 performance axle package. That package also included J65, 4 wheel discs when available. Do you have G92?
Posting your VIN online isn't an issue as many would like to think. Having pictures with your license plate is also not really an issue. The VIN can be looked up by anyone that walks up to the car and the license plate is seen by thousands every time you drive it.
The 2.77 gear came standard on IROC-Zs in '88. The 3.27 was optional with the G92 performance axle package. That package also included J65, 4 wheel discs when available. Do you have G92?
Here is an interesting fact about my 1988 IROC convertible. Disks might not have been available when it was ordered with the G92, G80, and KC4 external engine oil cooler in June of '88. It has drum brakes on the rear with the 10 bolt GU5 3.23 gears and is stock and original without J65 4 wheel disks, but does have G92, G80, and KC4 as RPOs.
FWIW, when I was shopping for an IROC back in 1989, I didn't know squat about RPO's and their available combinations, merging of the Z28/IROC models in '88, etc.
All I was looking for was t-tops, 4-wheel discs and 16" wheels.
Back then, I remember seeing A LOT of new/used IROC's with rear drums with '88-later IROC style, 15" wheels, which at the time I thought was strange.
I still don't know squat, but it seems that for those folks just getting into Third Gens, the weirdness of GM's configurations just adds to the confusion of, "what have a I got?"
Yeah, there never was really a this is what came in this model.
It was this is what comes on this model, unless we run out then we will put this on till we make some more. Or if you order this part, cause we won't let you have this with that, unless you push it at the dealer then we will even though we said we wouldn't...........
Yeah, there never was really a this is what came in this model.
It was this is what comes on this model, unless we run out then we will put this on till we make some more. Or if you order this part, cause we won't let you have this with that, unless you push it at the dealer then we will even though we said we wouldn't...........
True that, and the crappy wiring... Why do I have to love thirdgens
Anyway, like you said, it looks good and runs good. Love it for it's beauty and flaws. Except change the flaws lol. After all, it is your ride. Make it so.
It being a driver, as long as it's done right mechanically, I'm not terribly worried.
I agree with ya there! ...and you've got a goooood looking driver! Nice color too. personally I'd puts some black and silver Iroc rims on, but regardless it's pretty sharp!
Unfortunately, I had to fly out on company business less than 18 hours after buying the car. I only have one picture with me. I get back home next week.
I'm traveling at the moment, in Haines Junction in the Yukon, headed to Skagway.
In my brief time with the car, I did get a chance to look at the RPO numbers, the sticker was not on the console lid, but stuck on the passenger side of the inside console box, easily read by the driver. I wish I had taken a picture, but had little time before leaving for the trip. I definitely did see RPO Z28 listed.
One other possible oddity, the car has rear drum brakes. .I was under the impression that 5.7's required rear discs.
When the L98 5.7 option was ordered that automatically flagged the G92 option which included the J65 option which was 4 wheel disc brakes.
I had posted the original thread in September..over the past few months I discovered the rear axle had been replaced with a non-posi drum axle. A member here sold me the proper posi disc axle, which I will be installing soon.
I also found the 15" IROC wheels for $125.00 on Craigslist, and sold the Weld wheels to my son, for use on his '87 El Camino.
I agree about the wheels, though I'm probably a member of a small group...someone who replaced nice aftermarket wheels on a Camaro with OEM wheels..most people seem to go the opposite way.
I didn't know that the IROC wheels were available in 15" until I found these. One advantage is that unlike the 16" IROC wheels, the offset is the same, which allows the tires to be rotated.
I have gotten a couple of snubs from local guys about the raised white letter tires, though. While the cars didn't originally come with them, I thought they suit the character of the car.
I have gotten a couple of snubs from local guys about the raised white letter tires, though. While the cars didn't originally come with them, I thought they suit the character of the car.
I have a showroom brochure from 1986 (my Z is an '86), and the spread featuring the Z/28 shows a model with white raised letters. Maybe the IROCs didn't come with them, but at some point they were original equipment.
And on a personal note, I love the white raised letters. I have the same tires on my car, and I love the way they look.
The raised whites worked with the Z28. The lower profile performance tires on the IROC-Z never had raised white letters. I don't like the look on a monochromatic paint scheme, but the Z28 silver GFX and raised whites look awesome.
But what about the factory 15" IROC wheels? What tires were original on those? Though looking at the 88 brochure I see the IROC-Z convertible was wearing the Z28 wheels & black lettering so I assume the same.
In '88 the 16" wheels were no longer standard equipment on an IROC. The base wheels were the previous 15" Z28 wheels, which were also new to the Sport Coupe in '88. Then in '89, the IROC style 15" wheel were introduced as the standard IROC wheel.
With all that said, the car looks great! Always loved RS Camaros in that color, and always thought an IROC would look good wearing it too. I also think the 15" IROC wheels look fantastic with the while letter tires! Yeah, they are the wrong year and wouldn't have been on a 350 car, but who cares
This is my first posting on thirdgen, as I just bought an '88 IROC-Z 5.7 TPI just this past week, after wanting one for 30 years.
My VIN is 1G1FP2189JL177***
What's gotten me confused is my car seems to have more in common with '87 IROC-Z's I've seen has "IROC-Z" callouts on the lower rockers, and rear bumper, mine say "Z28".
E
Under the hood, though, is where I've pretty confused. Every '88 I've found online seems to have the serpentine drive belt, with the air conditioner compressor on the passenger's side of the car. My car has the older "V" belt setup, with the air conditioner compressor on the driver's side.
It seemed pretty unlikely to me that if someone had replaced the engine, they would have used the earlier style drive belts, then modified everything to line up and work, particularly the air conditioner, which works well
This is my first posting on thirdgen, as I just bought an '88 IROC-Z 5.7 TPI just this past week, after wanting one for 30 years.
My VIN is 1G1FP2189JL177***
What's gotten me confused is my car seems to have more in common with '87 IROC-Z's I've seen has "IROC-Z" callouts on the lower rockers, and rear bumper, mine say "Z28".
E
Under the hood, though, is where I've pretty confused. Every '88 I've found online seems to have the serpentine drive belt, with the air conditioner compressor on the passenger's side of the car. My car has the older "V" belt setup, with the air conditioner compressor on the driver's side.
It seemed pretty unlikely to me that if someone had replaced the engine, they would have used the earlier style drive belts, then modified everything to line up and work, particularly the air conditioner, which works well
Sounds like you have an 88 as per the VIN, but someone swapped the engine.
Does it have the center-bolt valve covers or earlier (thru 86) valve covers?
Another option is the car was stolen, and someone took the VIN tag from one car and installed it on another. Look in the center console glove compartment, does it still have the RPO tag? It should match the VIN under the windshield. Also there should be VIN stickers on the Hood, Front and rear bumper backer, each fender, the RH door, hatch and even behind the plastic panels on the rear quarters. The Drivers door will have the VIN listed on one of the stickers as well. IF all of the stickers match, but do not match the VIN on the windshield, I can see a lawsuit coming.
09-14-2015, 11:31 PM
