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Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Old 07-06-2016, 02:16 PM
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Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

OK, third gen Camaro history buffs . . . I got nailed with a hard statement this past weekend on how Van Nuys painted the hoods on third gens . .

A gentlemen with a 1991 Camaro Z28 stated my hood was repainted since the primer circle from where the hood was held up was no longer there . . as you can see in this picture:



The grey circle is just to the right of the hood spring . . .

Now my 1992 and other photos I've found do not have the grey circle there:





Was caught off guard by the statement . . . what does your 91 or 92 look like?
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:44 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Looks like yours is there, not as much gray, in the right of the center 2 holes below the primary latch. They aren't all the same.
It doesn't look like his hood has the 2 spots in the outer "cups" where the core support rubber bumpers hit the hood, while wet and messed up the paint a little.

These cars were built by humans that do make mistakes and or do things a bit differently from time to time.

Edit* ment to say primary latch

Last edited by TTOP350; 07-07-2016 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:54 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

I know you didn't ask about '88, but mine has the primer circle.
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:42 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Originally Posted by TTOP350 View Post
Looks like yours is there, not as much gray, in the right of the center 2 holes below the 2ndary latch. They aren't all the same.
It doesn't look like his hood has the 2 spots in the outer "cups" where the core support rubber bumpers hit the hood, while wet and messed up the paint a little.

These cars were built by humans that do make mistakes and or do things a bit differently from time to time.
Here's a close up of my hood . . .



Oh I get the cars are made by humans . . . but I purposely looked at just about every 1991 Camaro on the showfield this weekend and low and behold they all seemed to have the grey primer circle by the hood spring,

But every 1992 I saw on the field, and even reviewing all of my documentation photos I've accumulated do not have the primer circle . . . I find it odd that the painting process for 1992 would change . . but anything is possible, I was just caught very off guard to have a stranger confront me in the judging lane and state my hood has been repainted since that circle is not there.
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:49 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Here's a white 1992 Z from the show.


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Old 07-06-2016, 04:12 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Went to the garage to look at my car and take some quick iPhone photos. My car is a 1991 Van Nuys car with what I believe is original paint (I've owned it since 11,000 miles in 2010 and haven't repainted it). All previous owners said it was original (so it must be true ), but looking at the car overall and judging the way the paint looks suggests original (save for the awful touch up spots a previous owner did).

Here are some pictures - I warn you that while my car routinely gets called "clean" by observers, it seems filthy after looking at your Restoration / Correction thread! I need to start detailing under the hood...



What's interesting is there's an entire plane that is unpainted, but you can see the tab that sticks out on the bottom right has some white paint on it. It's as if they sprayed at one angle but didn't bother to make sure they hit the entire underside.



If your car doesn't have the mark, what does this mean?

Take a look at the linked thread below with articles on GM Van Nuys.

Van Nuys thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-assembly.html

The takeaway is that GM production in the 80's and early 90's was awful and inconsistent; defects were common, and standardized processes weren't so standard. Also, it was a time of constant upheaval in which GM was toying with new production line methods while partnering with Toyota, and there was also some union turbulence as Van Nuys was moving towards shutdown. It is very possible that this primer circle is just an artifact of a bygone production era and was not consistently present across all Van Nuys cars.

Here's another possibility - your hood may have been repainted at Van Nuys after discovering a defect.

My guess is this: your hood is completely original, and there may have been a different protocol for painting the 25th Anniversary Edition striped hoods. It wouldn't surprise me if the striped panels were done separately from the other hoods. Also, processes for 92 may have improved or changed.

Here are some photos of the last 92 Z28 to roll out of Van Nuys (a 25th Anniversary Edition with stripes). The photos are blurry and old, but I don't see much evidence of a primer circle.






http://www.last1992camaro.com/about/

Here's that 190 mile Polo Green heritage edition that sold in Illinois:


http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/ch...maro-S988.html

There are some other things you can do:

1. Feel the paint texture on the underside of the hood and compare to other like surfaces (inboard side of fender, cowl, backside of door). A repaint may show an obvious inconsistency. This usually works better on new cars with higher production standards, though; plus, as clean as your car is, aging may play a role here.

2. Take a high powered light and look at the paint relative to other panels. Polo Green should be a tough match. Again, though, Van Nuys production plus age may reduce the effectiveness of this test. I've seen some cars with great original paint, and even then they show some natural fade and panel variance.

3. Get a paint pro to look at coating thickness.
Attached Thumbnails Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?-img_0850.jpg   Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?-img_0851.jpg  
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:10 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Curiosity got the best of me with this so I had to go check mine for you. Both my 91 and 92 are 100% original paint cars. I bought both from the original owners, have had paint thickness gauges on them, and have been inspected over and over again by me (who used to do this stuff for work) and multiple other professionals. 6k original miles on each.

Below are two pics from my 92 Z03 and my 91. Neither has the primer washer circle... however, there is primer showing in other areas (towards the top of the hood similar to KMK's car and in other areas around. I'm sure yours if most likely original and this is a good display of manufacturing inconsistencies. It's super cool that a number of us have these cars to use as references!

My 92 Z03:

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My 91:

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Old 07-06-2016, 09:34 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Here's my three. There is evidence that the underside of the hood on my yellow car had a second coat of paint applied either at the factory or dealer. The initial coat is extremely thin and barely covers the primer. Also, the spring on the yellow car is painted.


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Old 07-07-2016, 05:29 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Originally Posted by Polo Z03 View Post
Here's a close up of my hood . . .



Oh I get the cars are made by humans . . . but I purposely looked at just about every 1991 Camaro on the showfield this weekend and low and behold they all seemed to have the grey primer circle by the hood spring,

But every 1992 I saw on the field, and even reviewing all of my documentation photos I've accumulated do not have the primer circle . . . I find it odd that the painting process for 1992 would change . . but anything is possible, I was just caught very off guard to have a stranger confront me in the judging lane and state my hood has been repainted since that circle is not there.
Had to edit my comment, I ment to say primary latch.
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:44 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Interesting topic. My 90 Formy also has grey circle in different location. Owned the car since 92 and prior owner didn't have repainted. Guess all it really proves is the grey circle was not repainted
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:42 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

FWIW, my '87 (Van Nuys) looks like the hoods in the assembly line photos.
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Old 07-08-2016, 07:55 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

I will have to look at my 89, I know the hood has the original paint as no one would accept it after a repaint. The sides of the hood you can literally see primer under the paint. Pretty crappy job IMHO.
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Old 07-08-2016, 10:44 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Another test for originality for the Polo Z03 is the presence of the emissions sticker without overspray or paint build up on the boundary, showing a tape up. If hoods are replaced these stickers are rarely replaced. I believe the Polo Z03 car to be original paint from my perspective in the peanut gallery.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

At one time you could get the Emissions and I think the catalyst replacement stickers from Classic Industries. They had most years, but not everything...

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Old 07-08-2016, 12:10 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

When I repainted my hood last year there was primer showing on the side of the hood and in a big area center of the underhood. The paint was so thin it only took me 30 min to strip it down under the hood.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:14 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Originally Posted by dmccain View Post
When I repainted my hood last year there was primer showing on the side of the hood and in a big area center of the underhood. The paint was so thin it only took me 30 min to strip it down under the hood.
One car it was so thin all I needed was a rag with some lacquer thinner on it and it wiped off.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:21 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?





Originally Posted by dmccain View Post
When I repainted my hood last year there was primer showing on the side of the hood and in a big area center of the underhood. The paint was so thin it only took me 30 min to strip it down under the hood.


Some pics of my '89 which as far as I know has never been re sprayed. As you can see there are plenty of unsprayed primer areas, in fact they can be found throughout the engine bay especially on the fenders and the edge of the hood. I can't believe the original purchasers of these cars did not demand the dealer touch up these areas before taking delivery and forking over 20k in 1980's cash. I sure as heck would have.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:30 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Interesting feed back, and images. Always fun to see and learn about the processes and inconsistencies in the build of 3rd gens.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:02 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Is this just a Van Nuys thing ,or was Norwood done the same way?
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:28 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Originally Posted by mantaguy View Post
Is this just a Van Nuys thing ,or was Norwood done the same way?
The hoods had to be held open somehow to get some paint in the engine compartment so I'd guess they were all similar?


Took some pix of my dirty birds in the garage. All are original underhood paint and the TTA and JY 92 are all original paint. You can see how thin the paint is on the JY car because a simple wipe with degreaser an soap n water wiped off some of the paint.

89 TTA
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89 TTOP350
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89 formula 350 vert
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JY 92 formula
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:46 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

My 1991 has original paint and i have the primered circle as well.
Attached Thumbnails Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?-20160710_204424.jpg  

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Old 07-17-2016, 08:02 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Checked my original paint '89 GTA today; will check my '87 next time I have the car out...
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Old 07-18-2016, 04:47 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Original paint '87 (Norwood car) does NOT have the primer circle.

Hood latch on the Norwood car is bare metal, too whereas my '89 is painted.




Spring is natural on both
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:36 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?



Reviving an interesting old thread......my 88 Formula 350
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:15 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

The original paint is so poor, that the side of my hood on one of my cars, you can see the primer showing where they missed painting it... Not the bottom, the side, where it tucks by the fender...

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Old 01-29-2019, 11:18 AM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Originally Posted by okfoz View Post
The original paint is so poor, that the side of my hood on one of my cars, you can see the primer showing where they missed painting it... Not the bottom, the side, where it tucks by the fender...

John
All 6 of my third gens have primer showing in various places under the hood and fenders. Not much attention to detail during the painting process back at that time. The only positive thing you can get from these defects is that the hood and front fenders were probably never replaced.

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Old 01-29-2019, 01:23 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

Looks like I have a primer spot..

There’s a lot of primer under the hood and especially when I removed the insulation..

I’m surprised they didn’t seem to care about thoroughly painting all the parts..

I believe my hood hinges also have primer..

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Old 01-29-2019, 02:53 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

I would have to look at mine, I believe you are correct, my hinges were gray... It is like The Hood was painted on the car, There might have been temporary hood struts, possibly fixed struts while they painted, then they lightly sprayed the bottom of the hood, the engine bay, then closed the hood and painted the rest. I know there is only primer under the hinges, seen that before...

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Old 02-13-2019, 07:26 PM
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Re: Under Hood Paint / History Lesson?

My '88 GTA has as much primer grey under the hood as it does Bright Red....
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