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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
So a few of us started chatting back on another thread (1987 GTA f/s less than 3,000 miles -not mine)
about the hood latch and bolts.
Some cars have painted hood latches (body color) and bolts where others are unpainted
There was some thought it may be a Van Nuys plant vs Norwood plant difference but from what we seen so far, there is no evidence of this.
All of my previous 3rd gens have had unpainted hood latches. But, for example, Scottmoyers IROC has a painted hood latch.
(and his car is unquestionably original).
Anyone have any further input on this topic? It's got me (and a few others) curious.....
Interesting. All of mine are just sort of a black color, but the color doesn't match the engine bay paint. Kind of like a coated auto part or something. I would think painting an assembled hood latch would be a terrible idea. Imagine the paint getting all in the mechanism and "gumming" it up!
My 88 with 30k is painted. It’s a Van Nuys car. It was original paint when I got it but no jams or underhood were touched by the painter.
My 87 was original paint when I got it with 26k miles and it was painted. My buddy with the twin 87 5.7 had painted also. It used to always bother me how the paint was scuffed where the hood latch comes down and locks.
A friend of mines 87 formula 350s is painted and has a factory blacked out upper cowl panel.
All my cars are 89 and up, none have painted hood latches, just the black phosphorus body, gray rivits an gold cad coating on hooks/parts.
A friend of mines 87 formula 350s is painted and has a factory blacked out upper cowl panel.
All my cars are 89 and up, none have painted hood latches, just the black phosphorus body, gray rivits an gold cad coating on hooks/parts.
I've been looking for some sort of pattern with this (year, build location, something) but just not seeing it yet.
My 88 bright red Formula 350 is a Van Nuys built car and has the unpainted latch with the black upper cowl.
My 89 white Formula 350 was a Van Nuys built car and had the unpainted latch with body color upper cowl.
My 89 flame red Formula 350 was a Van Nuys car and had the unpainted latch with body color upper cowl
I'm wondering if 1989 was the start of the body color upper cowl ?? - but no ideas on the painted vs unpainted hood latch yet.
I've been looking for some sort of pattern with this (year, build location, something) but just not seeing it yet.
My 88 bright red Formula 350 is a Van Nuys built car and has the unpainted latch with the black upper cowl.
My 89 white Formula 350 was a Van Nuys built car and had the unpainted latch with body color upper cowl.
My 89 flame red Formula 350 was a Van Nuys car and had the unpainted latch with body color upper cowl
I'm wondering if 1989 was the start of the body color upper cowl ?? - but no ideas on the painted vs unpainted hood latch yet.
I always thought that the VN cars had body color cowls and NW had the black. Then in 88 when all production went to VN, they were all body color. Maybe I'm 100% wrong though.
I always thought that the VN cars had body color cowls and NW had the black. Then in 88 when all production went to VN, they were all body color. Maybe I'm 100% wrong though.
No clue, trying to figure it out.....BTW, my 88 VN car has the black cowl....
I always thought that the VN cars had body color cowls and NW had the black. Then in 88 when all production went to VN, they were all body color. Maybe I'm 100% wrong though.
That was my understanding as well, however, that alleged 3k mile GTA is a VN car with black cowl and painted latch; that’s why this discussion started there
I'm starting to think that the cowl not being painted black and the latch not being painted, but treated with the black iron oxide coating started at some time in 1988. If you started getting build dates on 1988 cars I would think that the later production cars did not get the black painted cowls and the latches were done in black oxide. There could be some overlap time in the latches and cowl changes that year.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; 01-28-2019 at 04:06 PM.
I'm starting to think that the cowl not being painted black and the latch not being painted, but treated with the black iron oxide coating started at some time in 1988. If you started getting build dates on 1988 cars I would think that the later production cars did not get the black painted cowls and the latches were done in black oxide. There could be some overlap time in the latches and cowl changes that year.
- I have an 06/88 build date with a black cowl & unpainted hood latch
I'll go check my three 1988 cars for painted cowls and hood latches along with my 1989 Vert to see exactly what they have along with their exact build dates on the factory invoices that I have on all of them. I'll also check to see which ones have the painted or unpainted hood springs. I wonder what year they started painting the cowls since it seems that Post#12 dagwood's 1982 Z28 had the body color cowl, but the painted latch. dagwood, is your hood spring painted or not?
Forgot to state where mine were built. So as I've learned, all 3 of my latches are black oxide or black phosphorous coating (from the posts above). They are all kind of a dark gray color, almost black.
I'll go check my three 1988 cars for painted cowls and hood latches along with my 1989 Vert to see exactly what they have along with their exact build dates on the factory invoices that I have on all of them. I'll also check to see which ones have the painted or unpainted hood springs. I wonder what year they started painting the cowls since it seems that Post#12 dagwood's 1982 Z28 had the body color cowl, but the painted latch. dagwood, is your hood spring painted or not?
My hood spring and lever are also painted. The lever isn't painted all the way. And my latch is not painted on the back side where the mechanism is...only the front side. The is a little overspray on the back side, but not coated like the front
All of these cars are Van Nuys built and original.
My 1985 California IROC built 05/20/1985 has the black cowl, body color painted latch and hood spring.
My 1987 IROC 350 T-Top built 06/01/1987 has the black cowl, body color painted latch and hood spring.
My 1988 GTA Notchback built 04/22/1988 has the black painted cowl, body color painted latch and zink anodized hood spring.
My 1988 HT Sport Coupe built 06/28/1988 has the black painted cowl, unpainted black oxide latch and zink anodized hood spring.
My 1988 IROC Convertible built 06/28/1988 has the black painted cowl, unpainted black oxide latch and zink anodized hood spring.
My 1989 IROC Convertible built 07/08/1989 has the body color cowl, unpainted black oxide latch and zink anodized hood spring.
It seems to me that Norwood cars used the unpainted black oxide latches and black painted cowls from the beginning of third gen production in 1982 till production ended in August 1987.
kentuckyKITT has a Norwood 1982 car that has a black oxide latch whereas Van Nuys 1982 cars seem to have body color painted latches. Other Norwood built cars from1982-87 also have the black oxide hood latches and black painted cowls. If someone has anything different let us know.
It looks like the Van Nuys plant started not painting the cowls black some time in late 1988 or early 1989 as has been the case on the above cars.
As far as the black oxide latches go at some time between 04/22/1988 painted and 06/28/1988 unpainted. They went from painted to unpainted latches during this time according to my car's build dates. Do others here have build dates to try and confirm this data?
Now I'd like to know if the hood springs on the various years, factories, and cars were painted or zink anodized.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; 01-28-2019 at 07:00 PM.
Based on what I'm seeing from my picture repository, it looks like 1988 was the year for the change. I have pics of both the painted cowl and painted hood latch in 1988, and also unpainted cowl and unpainted hood latch. I wonder if the change was similar in reason to the unpainted cowl, which was a cost saving issue. Not sure what the cost savings would be on the unpainted latch, unless they found that the black coating on the latch was cheaper than an unpainted latch that required paint to protect it.
Last edited by scottmoyer; 01-28-2019 at 07:16 PM.
This is my '88 T/A, Van Nuys obviously. All painted parts as discussed above, and a blacked out cowl. Only the original owner before me, and no signs of paint work on the whole car.
My door decal says 9/87 for a build date.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 01-28-2019 at 07:41 PM.
Based on what I'm seeing from my picture repository, it looks like 1988 was the year for the change. I have pics of both the painted cowl and painted hood latch in 1988, and also unpainted cowl and unpainted hood latch. I wonder if the change was similar in reason to the unpainted cowl, which was a cost saving issue. Not sure what the cost savings would be on the unpainted latch, unless they found that the black coating on the latch was cheaper than an unpainted latch that required paint to protect it.
I would think it’s more a matter of when the latch was installed.....either before body paint or after body paint.
As far as the black oxide latches go at some time between 04/22/1988 painted and 06/28/1988 unpainted. They went from painted to unpainted latches during this time according to my car's build dates. Do others here have build dates to try and confirm this data?
Based on what I'm seeing from my picture repository, it looks like 1988 was the year for the change. I have pics of both the painted cowl and painted hood latch in 1988, and also unpainted cowl and unpainted hood latch. I wonder if the change was similar in reason to the unpainted cowl, which was a cost saving issue. Not sure what the cost savings would be on the unpainted latch, unless they found that the black coating on the latch was cheaper than an unpainted latch that required paint to protect it.
Yes, it's starting to look like a mid 1988 change......I wish I knew what day in June my 88 Formula was built.....could it have been a change at what point the hood latch was installed during production?
Before or after paint?
Is that a joke? Of course it was either installed before paint, if it's painted, and after paint if it's not. Are you messing with us Leonard?
Actually , I was just thinking back when I was at the Van Nuys Plant. There were long stretches of the assembly line where nothing was happening. They said that was due to changes in the assembly process. I guess I was kind of thinking out loud and typed that, wondering what other things changed to allow for the big areas with nothing happening. I would never mess with you, Scott!! LOL!
I know in the Mopar word, the PAD (Product Assembly Documents) or whatever their equivalent is shows where body blackout paint is to be applied.
I wonder if GM PADs have a call-out for this?
I used to watch guys at the GM Baltimore plant apply blackout paint on the front of the core support...right out of the oven from baking the paint. 2nd story, no windows, hottest place in the plant, and a miserable job. You ex-plant guys can tell how that works, but I always figured those poor guys were the lowest of the low...either brand new with no seniority, or they had screwed up pretty bad and/or pissed off the wrong people.
At Norwood, we painted the latches and spring. If the latch was replaced before it left the factory, it would have been the stock black. I had to replace mine early on and had it painted to keep it like it was. I still have the factory unit too. Pretty neat thread.
At Norwood, we painted the latches and spring. If the latch was replaced before it left the factory, it would have been the stock black. I had to replace mine early on and had it painted to keep it like it was. I still have the factory unit too. Pretty neat thread.
info right from the Norwood factory......doesn't get any better then that!
At Norwood, we painted the latches and spring. If the latch was replaced before it left the factory, it would have been the stock black. I had to replace mine early on and had it painted to keep it like it was. I still have the factory unit too. Pretty neat thread.
Dan, why would the latch be replaced before it left the factory?
At Norwood, we painted the latches and spring. If the latch was replaced before it left the factory, it would have been the stock black. I had to replace mine early on and had it painted to keep it like it was. I still have the factory unit too. Pretty neat thread.
Originally Posted by BizJetTech
info right from the Norwood factory......doesn't get any better then that!
I have personally owned 2 Norwood 87 TAs (still own one, completely original) with natural latches
Dan, why would the latch be replaced before it left the factory?
Sometimes they were faulty, so they replaced them in AGR Repair line and that black phospate color was how they came in. Paint used to get caught up in them and cause them to jam. Should have seen how many rear hatch pull down they replaced..lol
I have personally owned 2 Norwood 87 TAs (still own one, completely original) with natural latches
Id have to check with the guy that was the Paint supervisor, but I believe most the issues came from paint. By 87 or in 1987 we changed over to not painting them. Here is a pic of the Last Car i took while it was on the line.
My yellow '85 is a Van Nuys car, but maybe you can shed some light. The inside of the hood and strut towers look like they were repainted after assembly. There are areas where the first coat of yellow is so thin it's see through, barely tinting the primer yellow. Was this common?
My yellow '85 is a Van Nuys car, but maybe you can shed some light. The inside of the hood and strut towers look like they were repainted after assembly. There are areas where the first coat of yellow is so thin it's see through, barely tinting the primer yellow. Was this common?
What I do know is that Van Nuys was water based paint, and they had a lot of problems. I know I went to SanDiego in 85 and test drove this 85 IROC. The color was very pale. Norwood ceased production on yellow until the base coat clear coat yellow was ready. I was going to order yellow, but it has been put on restraint. That’s why I chose Bright Blue. Don’t know if that played into Van Nuys possibly repainting those, but could have been. I dont remember us doing that. I had the first job after the units left paint and came into trim for a time in 86. I put on the right hood strut and bolted in the wiper arms. Dont ever recall seeing a hinge with thin paint. Thank you CA Emissions Standards.. lol
So, if I'm reading this right, my 82 went in the paint booth with the hood latch installed. Afterwards when someone closed the hood or tried to, the latch was froze, so it was replaced with a natural one. They must have also replaced the spring as well since it was not painted and natural. (It's painted now though).
The spring on my 89 is a natural silver/light gray color. The spring on my 90 Formula is chrome-like, which is the first time I've seen that before.
So, if I'm reading this right, my 82 went in the paint booth with the hood latch installed. Afterwards when someone closed the hood or tried to, the latch was froze, so it was replaced with a natural one. They must have also replaced the spring as well since it was not painted and natural. (It's painted now though).
The spring on my 89 is a natural silver/light gray color. The spring on my 90 Formula is chrome-like, which is the first time I've seen that before.
Is your 82 a Norwood car? In 82 Norwood was painting them. If it wasnt, it was replaced.
At what point was the hood latch cable installed? Had to be after paint...
Even on the cars with painted latches, there is no paint on the cable...
Cable was installed after paint in the Hard Trim Dept. All wiring, cables, rear speakers, rear hatch motors, window regulators, side glass, weather strip etc...
Cable was installed after paint in the Hard Trim Dept. All wiring, cables, rear speakers, rear hatch motors, window regulators, side glass, weather strip etc...
01-28-2019, 12:20 PM
I figured we could all use a diversion from the previous mind numbing thread.....
