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Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
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Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Gents, the brain surgeons at Ziebart back in the 80s coated the strut towers on my 88 IROC. I'm replacing the engine in the car and now is the time to properly clean the engine bay so it doesn't look perpetually dingy and nasty. From the searching I've done it looks like Kerosene/ATF works as a solvent in conjunction with scotchbrite pads and rags. For thick areas some heat and a plastic scraper were recommended.
Just checking to see if these methods are still the best way, or if anyone has come up with anything better in the last 15 years.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Try the Gunk HD GEL engine degreaser first. 50% of the time, it melts the stuff right off. Beyond that, try different products. A bug/tar remover might not be a bad idea. Various degreasers, Simple Green, Purple Power, etc. Mineral Spirits. WD40. Lighter fluid. Seems like different brands react differently, but also depends how thick, how old, rubber vs oil based...
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
So I've learned how to remove the Ziebart type coating, and I've decided that I'll never buy a car that has been "Ziebarted" ever again. The Gunk Gel, would melt it a little bit, but it would have taken an eternity and 500 cans to do it.
1. Start with a heat gun and a plastic scraper. Trim removal tool works well. The idea is to scrape off as much as possible. There is a perfect amount of heat. Too cold and you can't scrape it off, too hot and it just melts into mush and makes a mess, get the heat right and it will release from the car yet stay together is chips. If you can get it to release from the car you have MUCH less to melt off later.
2. Next take a cup of MEK and a 2" paint brush with the bristles cut back to about 1/2" long and melt the rest of the undercoating off. The brush allows you to get in all the little places, mop up the areas that still have a thick coating with a MEK soaked blue shop towel.
3. Follow up with more MEK and blue shop towels, and you're all done.
The ENTIRE engine bay looked like the first pic. The second picture is 90% complete. I later cleaned the fuel lines and replaced nearly all of the split wire loom. New upper strut bearings will be on their way soon as well.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by 1MeanZ
So I've learned how to remove the Ziebart type coating, and I've decided that I'll never buy a car that has been "Ziebarted" ever again. The Gunk Gel, would melt it a little bit, but it would have taken an eternity and 500 cans to do it.
1. Start with a heat gun and a plastic scraper. Trim removal tool works well. The idea is to scrape off as much as possible. There is a perfect amount of heat. Too cold and you can't scrape it off, too hot and it just melts into mush and makes a mess, get the heat right and it will release from the car yet stay together is chips. If you can get it to release from the car you have MUCH less to melt off later.
2. Next take a cup of MEK and a 2" paint brush with the bristles cut back to about 1/2" long and melt the rest of the undercoating off. The brush allows you to get in all the little places, mop up the areas that still have a thick coating with a MEK soaked blue shop towel.
3. Follow up with more MEK and blue shop towels, and you're all done.
The ENTIRE engine bay looked like the first pic. The second picture is 90% complete. I later cleaned the fuel lines and replaced nearly all of the split wire loom. New upper strut bearings will be on their way soon as well.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Just seeing this... I used to work for Ziebart a lifetime ago. *DUCKS. Calm down folks, I never did any thirdgens and no thirdgens came in our shop while I was there. I only did the undercoating and rustproofing for about 6 months before I was promoted to window tinter and finally sunroofs and electronics. I hated the rust proofing and undercoating job.
For future reference, if you have actual verifiable Ziebart brand coating, it's designed specifically to be removed with straight mineral spirits. The chemical composition breaks down when mineral spirits interacts with it. You can spray mineral spirits on it and it will literally drip off of the car. I seriously doubt your car was done at Ziebart, at least not a reputable one since we never did engine bays. It was against policy due to wiring, sensors, hoses and on and on. The undercoat was for the underside of the vehicle only. I remember people inquiring about engine bays and personally telling them no many times. Now, it was possible that some overspray got on the bottom of the firewall or areas around the engine, but there's no way it would look like your car fully coated.
At my shop, when the process was complete, the hood was raised and any undercoating was cleaned off of underside of hood and visible areas around the engine and it was very noticeable. I remember having to replace hood insulation a few times until they got smart and started masking that off. We had bags for wheels and tires. All of this was done with special pivoting spray tips to get behind things and control the spray. The car would get a mineral spirit bath after completion to remove any overspray from the body, followed by wash and clear coat protector.
Your car was most likely done by inexperienced idiots at a competitor.
I realize the undercoating/rust proofing is damaging visibly to an original car especially with the holes drilled for the rust proofing rods, but I can tell you the process does work. I did my Dad's brand new 2002 Silverado 2500 HD in 2002, it currently has over 200,000 miles on it and it is the only 2002 Silverado in this entire county that I've seen so far that is not rusted out and still has all of it's clear coat and still looks good when washed. He drives it in everything and doesn't even wash it much. Every truck I see like his, every single one has rusted rockers, rusted wheel wells and failing clear coat.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by kentuckyKITT
I realize the undercoating/rust proofing is damaging visibly to an original car especially with the holes drilled for the rust proofing rods, but I can tell you the process does work. I did my Dad's brand new 2002 Silverado 2500 HD in 2002, it currently has over 200,000 miles on it and it is the only 2002 Silverado in this entire county that I've seen so far that is not rusted out and still has all of it's clear coat and still looks good when washed. He drives it in everything and doesn't even wash it much. Every truck I see like his, every single one has rusted rockers, rusted wheel wells and failing clear coat.
It's a love hate thing I guess...
I admit that there may be different formulations of the material used, but I have yet to see any car that actually benefited long-term from being 'rust-proofed'. In my experience, the coating dries up, cracks and then holds moisture up against the parent metal, actually accelerating the rust problem. I'd assume the fine print says you should re-apply every few years, and in that case it probably does work. But on older cars like we're talking about here, I've only seen it be a detriment in my experience.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
My IROC was Ziebarted before I owned it. I get my daily driver oil sprayed each year, but never got the IROC done because I only drive it in the summer. Besides, oil spray on top of Ziebart would make a black sticky mess. Over the years I've been cleaning up the Ziebart in the engine bay. Varsol works well, also sold as Mineral Spirits or Paint Thinner.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by 1MeanZ
So I've learned how to remove the Ziebart type coating, and I've decided that I'll never buy a car that has been "Ziebarted" ever again. The Gunk Gel, would melt it a little bit, but it would have taken an eternity and 500 cans to do it.
1. Start with a heat gun and a plastic scraper. Trim removal tool works well. The idea is to scrape off as much as possible. There is a perfect amount of heat. Too cold and you can't scrape it off, too hot and it just melts into mush and makes a mess, get the heat right and it will release from the car yet stay together is chips. If you can get it to release from the car you have MUCH less to melt off later.
2. Next take a cup of MEK and a 2" paint brush with the bristles cut back to about 1/2" long and melt the rest of the undercoating off. The brush allows you to get in all the little places, mop up the areas that still have a thick coating with a MEK soaked blue shop towel.
3. Follow up with more MEK and blue shop towels, and you're all done.
The ENTIRE engine bay looked like the first pic. The second picture is 90% complete. I later cleaned the fuel lines and replaced nearly all of the split wire loom. New upper strut bearings will be on their way soon as well.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by 1MeanZ
2. Next take a cup of MEK and a 2" paint brush with the bristles cut back to about 1/2" long and melt the rest of the undercoating off. The brush allows you to get in all the little places, mop up the areas that still have a thick coating with a MEK soaked blue shop towel.
3. Follow up with more MEK and blue shop towels, and you're all done.
MEK is a very aggressive solvent. Ordinary paint thinner (Varsol, mineral spirits) works fine on Ziebart. You don't want to dull or remove the paint.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
As long as I didn’t use the plastic scraper on the paint while it was soaked in MEK, it didn’t damage or dull the paint at all in my case. Agree that something more mild may be better, but I liked the aggressiveness to cut this stuff off. It doesn’t exactly melt away, I used nearly a gallon cleaning this thing up.
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by 1MeanZ
As long as I didn’t use the plastic scraper on the paint while it was soaked in MEK, it didn’t damage or dull the paint at all in my case. Agree that something more mild may be better, but I liked the aggressiveness to cut this stuff off. It doesn’t exactly melt away, I used nearly a gallon cleaning this thing up.
just a friendly warning, be really careful while working with MEK - I've worked with this stuff for over 30 years and it's REALLY bad stuff.
It can cause lung cancer among other illnesses, I've lost 2 friends to it (most likely from long term exposure to MEK fumes and working without rubber gloves).
It's very NASTY stuff !!
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by BizJetTech
just a friendly warning, be really careful while working with MEK - I've worked with this stuff for over 30 years and it's REALLY bad stuff.
It can cause lung cancer among other illnesses, I've lost 2 friends to it (most likely from long term exposure to MEK fumes and working without rubber gloves).
It's very NASTY stuff !!
You know, I was going to warn about that too, as MEK used to be banned from UAW shops where I used to work. But when I went to look for backing evidence, I found this.
" On December 19, 2005, EPA issued a final rule removing MEK from Section 112 (b) (1) of the Clean Air Act. Petitions to remove a substance from the HAP list are authorized under Section 112 (b) (3). EPA determined that ambient concentrations, bioaccumulation, or deposition of MEK may not reasonably be anticipated to cause adverse human health or environmental effects."
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
Originally Posted by DynoDave43
You know, I was going to warn about that too, as MEK used to be banned from UAW shops where I used to work. But when I went to look for backing evidence, I found this.
" On December 19, 2005, EPA issued a final rule removing MEK from Section 112 (b) (1) of the Clean Air Act. Petitions to remove a substance from the HAP list are authorized under Section 112 (b) (3). EPA determined that ambient concentrations, bioaccumulation, or deposition of MEK may not reasonably be anticipated to cause adverse human health or environmental effects."
Re: Removing "Ziebart" type undercoatings, checking for update methods
It's good this info comes out here. This is why facebook sucks and forums like this are still by far the best way to trade information. It's a shame forums are declining due to the ignorant hoardes on FB.
I used rubber gloves and am working in a 40'x60' heated shop. I also only worked in 2hr increments in evenings after the kids went to bed. I'm certain I was exposed to some bad stuff, but I can't imagine my exposure was anywhere near a dangerous level.
While we're taking this slight diversion, I'll admit the major safety issue in my shop is air quality in the winter time. I can spray paint stuff and come back in the morning and it still smells pretty strong in there. I have a ceiling mounted exhaust fan that also pulls all my heat out as well. I use it when things are really bad, but not near as much as I should probably. Otherwise I try to keep things pretty safe in there. Things are safer and more properly disposed off and put away now that I have shop cats!
02-15-2019, 07:08 AM
