Crusin' 1980's

Of all 3rd gen camaro, how many (what percentage) are stick shift...I'm guessing about 30-40 % but there's got to be some data to back it up.

okfoz

It really varied year to year... 1990 it was 10%, 1991 was closer to 15%, and 1992 was closer to 20%

John

chazman

iTrader: (4)

50% of mine are.....

hardon85

not sure how many were made but they sure are hard to find now, I was originally looking for a convertible 5 speed and I only found 2 one in Oklahoma the other in Connecticut and I live in MN, when I broadened my search to a t-top 5 speed I found one in Milwaukee so at least in my area they are not easy to find and I would call them somewhat rare but I'm not sure about other areas.

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

Not a lot from the factory. GM thought we would kill ourselves.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Most of the cars are dealer ordered... ATs are easier to sell then MTs, which means the dealers ordered more Autos. What GM though had nothing to do with it.

DiabolicalRS

mine is a 90 year wow so does this mean that "it could be alittle rarer for my year?"

885speed

iTrader: (1)

I've always wondered this myself. Mine is the only stick that I've ever seen that wasn't a V6
Thats a huge part of why I bought it, actually.

Crusin' 1980's

I think it probably would make the stick shift version more desirable...especially with the t-tops or convertable and the 305TPI motor...

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

My car is a 1992 Formula Firebird with the 305TPI engine, factory T-tops and the 5 speed transmission. I was very much drawn to it for all the above reasons. Yeah I could swap a manual into any third gen but this seemed easier. It also seemed easier to do a T56/TKO 600 into a factory manual car than a automatic transmission based car. So I think I saved myself a little bit of work and time going with this car.

The 305TPI cars with the 5 speed transmission, and all the goodies that went with it made them the very BEST of the 305 cars in my opinion. Though when I bought mine T-tops, a straight, rust free body, power windows and locks, factory 4 wheel disk brakes, and a TPI engine were my only real requirements. Getting a 1992 car with N10, GU6, G80, the engine oil cooler, L98 cam, and 5 speed transmission were all just icing on the cake.

chevycmf

Well my 92 25th anniversary is a stick shift and it is pretty rare cause I have never seen another one that is stick shift. You guys are right most or all of the ones ive ever seen are automatics. That's the reason I bought mine....I saw and I had to have it. I figured it was rare...

Blown84Bird

Only 10 till I posted now 11 LOL

Atilla the Fun

Nowhere near enough, and now T5 prices are unreasonably high. The rest of us are left to find V6 T5 pedals and adapt non-GM 5-speeds. Just as well, since T5s were nowhere near strong enough. Shoulda gave us the 4+3 from the 'vette. You never hear of 350s breaking Super T-10s. Plus more choices of ratios. And it woulda meant a better length torque arm.

okfoz

Random thoughts by John:

To be honest, the T5 was weak, I have never heard anything to the contrary. The fact is there was a reason why the trans was not used from 1985 & 1986 on the TPI engine... Specifically 1985 I suspect that there was a quality issue... The Auto was improved in mid 1986 and the Manual finally found its place in 1987 behind the 305. The 1988 WC is probably better, but how much...I do not know. I really suspect they simply corrected the weak points in the trans as time went on... My bet is the later the trans, the better it is.

I would also venture to think that the stock tires helped the trans as the gatorbacks were not particularly sticky, there would be less load on the trans with those tires... Install some Stickey Mickey's and your probably going to break something.

The reason why the 4+3 or whatever it was was probably expensive, but you install that then there would have not been a big reason to buy a Vette... The T56 obviously came later in the 4th gens...

Atilla the Fun

Choosing the 'vette wasn't about the trans. It was a whole different image, with a worlds better suspension, brakes, and balance, et cetera.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

The stock T5 was only rated for some 260lbs. of torque. The World Class T5 was rated for 300 foot pounds of torque. Still the World Class T5 isn't known for being super strong though some people get lucky and run them behind relatively powerful engines without too much trouble.

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

i'v got 2. my 83 T/A was stick and at that time i would have been fine if it were an auto but then again i didnt know then what i know now. a friend turned me on to my FORMULA that a fella was selling and wanted and liked stick cars . seen and drove the car and the deal was sealed. the only reason i would buy an auto is so my wife can drive and the auto would most likely be used for trips mainly.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I'd guess the percentage of 5-speeds was about 10% of all thirdgens, less than that on V8 cars.

Finding a T5 V8 car on a dealer's lot was nearly impossible. Many dealers never had any, and the few dealers that did have one, might've had only ONE each year. So when you use that to run the numbers against total dealers and total cars produced throughout the generation, you come up with an estimate in the range of just under 10%. And the probable reason the percentage increased in the last three years of production is most-likely due far less total thirdgens produced, which, with the same(ish) actual number of T5 cars produced those years as in previous years, it would make the percentage higher(by default).

I don't think you can use the "sticky tire" theory for back then. When the Gatorback came out on the '84 'Vette, it was "state-of-the-art," one of the best tires on the market, and it was considered "sticky" for a production car. By today's standards, it wouldn't be, but back then, it was, yet I don't think it caused any fear for damaging a T5.

Regarding the torque rating of the T5, the '83-'87 non-WC was 260, whereas the WC was 300. Yet even with a rating of only 260, ultra-conservative GM still put it behind the '87 LB9, which had torque ratings of 285-295... and the trannies turned-out to hold-up just fine. And a lot of people on TGO are using T5s behind 350s without any issues--WC and non-WC.

And if any of you ever knew any Mustang owners in the '80s, you know that beating the daylights out of their cars was routine, just a normal day--everyday, yet the T5 always held-up just fine for them too. And believe me, the "Car Wars" were in full-swing at the time, and Mustang owners carried a chip on their shoulders against us, and they wanted to "fight" every chance they saw a Camaro or Firebird, and they severely-punished their trannies in the process. Granted, the Mustang's T5 was the WC version(since 1985), but that, at least, shows the WC-T5 was strong.

The supposed reason I'd been told by someone at GM's Norwood factory for the LB9 not getting the T5 in '85-'86 was purely emissions-related. And I got that from someone inside GM's Norwood factory in 1986. True or not, I don't know. But that's what I was told... and I did ask, because I wanted a 5-speed! They told me "1987."

But, again, since GM did install the 260 tq T5 behind the 295 tq LB9 in 1987, successfully, I'd guess strength, or a lack thereof, was not the prior issue with the LB9... the L98, yes, but not the LB9. And as conservative as GM was, they would NOT have done it if they feared it wouldn't hold-up.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Perhaps a pole, autos vs. manuals, would be interesting (V8's only).

JamesC

Atilla the Fun

okay, I vote for my TR3650 swap. poll complete. :-)

okfoz

For crying out loud, we have the information...

There were 1,517,623 Camaros made and 817,444 Firebirds from 1982 & 1992

Of those
Camaro 4 spd - 37,679
Firebird 4 spd - 22,889

Camaro 5 spd - 235,473
Firebird 5 spd - 105,637

Firebird 6 spd - 25

OR approximately
17.9998% of Camaros had the manual trans
15.7259% of Firebirds had the Manual trans

Who the heck needs a poll???

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Too bad that the above wasn't posted earlier.

Since some members apparently search for a 5-speed when purchasing, knowing the numbers for TGO's membership might be interesting. Or not.

JamesC

david86camaro

It is hard to believe that sticks are that rare!! I cry every time is see a Camaro, Vette or any other decent sports car with an automatic, it is such a waste, even my V6 is fun to drive because of the stick!!

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

It might be interesting to see how many TGO members have manual transmission equipped cars. A breakdown between factory 4/5 speed cars and cars that were originally automatics and are now manual transmission cars would be interesting too.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Just because the majority of thirdgens were auto's doesn't really make the 5spds rare. You're still talking about 300,000+ cars.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I've seen a few of them over the years, but more than 75% of the cars I do see are equipped with automatic transmissions. A buddy of mine has a base model bird and the only option that sucker has is the automatic transmission. I really stopped looking for manual transmission based thirdgens this last time I went car shopping. The car I have now I wanted before I found out it had a manual transmission. So for me it was icing on the cake.

92RSMoneypit

iTrader: (1)

My B4C has 230.000 on it and the way it grinds into reverse ill bet the t5 is the original transmission i was reading some camaro info in a book i cant remember which book it was. They wear saying like LAFireboyd was saying everything GM did as far as engine transmission car packages was to meat EPA requirement's only they didn't want yo get fined million's by the Feds.

HankL69

iTrader: (1)

But, how many of those 300,000 were v-6 cars? Then factor in how many were wrecked or just rotted away and ended up being parted out. Probably safe to say there are only 50 to 75,000 v-8 five speed f-bodies left on the road.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

You'd have to ask Okfoz, but it doesn't really matter. If a person wants a manual transmission, it's still not such an impossible dream that it can't be achieved. It's not even that expensive.

The T5 doesn't have a reverse synchro. If you go straight for reverse with a new T5 it'll still scratch. Put it in a forward gear, then reverse and it won't do that.

Iroctopless

The 5spd wasn't the only standard tranny used in the 3gen. Nobody's mentioned the 4spd manual used in '82.
I think an '82 Z28 with the 5.0L LU5 (with those cool functional hood lovers) backed by the 4spd manual would be a really fun ride. Can't be many of those around. I'd like to hear from some owners of rides like that to see what they think.

Unholy 89

Mines a factory stick car, the only way I'd have.
If you ain't shiftin', you ain't drivin'

chazman

iTrader: (4)

LU5 never came with a stick.

I've often wondered about converting mine to a T5 though...

Iroctopless

Looks like we may need at update to our '82 Camaro Drivetrain tech section . . .
https://www.thirdgen.org/1982-chevy-camaro

I was browsing the drivetrain listing and spotted this . . .


. . . Oh an LU5 with a manual std with a gear ration of 3.23! Cool! Knowing that the 5spd wasn't available until '83, I assumed that it must have been the 4spd. I guess it's safe to assume that it shouldn't list any manual std at all. Good to know.

okfoz

Look at post # 21, I included those in my listing.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I had 3 factory manual cars
85 Firebird V6 5 speed
86 Trans Am LG4 5 speed
90 Formula LO3 5 speed

And I converted my 88 Formula to a 5 speed.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, someone should fix that. No manual trans was EVER offered with the LU5.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

True but I think some CFI corvettes came with 'sticks.
Didn't the 84 Corvette come with the 4+3 manual trans? The CFI 350 was the only engine offered in '84. Were the '82 Corvettes with CFI available with 4speeds?

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

According to the Wikipedia article on the C4 Corvette, the L83 Crossfire engine was in fact available with the 4+3 manual transmission. However Crossfire was only available in the C4 Corvette in 1984 only. It was replaced by the L98 in 1985.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The L-83 CFI was available ob the '82 and '84 Corvette (there was no '83). The 4+3 manual was available on the L-83 in '84 only. The 305 cubic inch LU5 was available in the Z/28 and Trans Am only and from '82 -'83. No CFI F-car came with a manual trans though - ever.

Shane B

Here's my 92 25th Aniv 5 speed.168,000 miles and still running great.

chevycmf

Looks great! I have a 1992 z-28 and I have about the same mileage.... Still chirpin gears......

Shane B

/\Sweet!I drive mine everyday around town to pick up my daughter and to get lunch when I get up( I work graveyard shift).I take my truck to work every night.When Im at work the maro sits in the garage.As you can tell there is just enough room in the garage for the camaro.Dont care how much I have to put into her.she aint going no where!

Spikeophant

INteresting thread. When I bought my 3rd gen, a 5spd was a must have for me, I found quite a few actually. Mostly 86's, boggles my mind to know they're relatively rare amongst camaro's.

DeltaElite121

My RS had a factory 5-speed/black interior. I've since sold the T-5 and moved onto other transmissions. Had a T56 waiting to drop in, but decided to go with a TH350 with a manual valve body instead. Got a great deal on it from a friend, so really couldn't pass it up.

I did enjoy driving the car with the 5-speed, though. Good times.

Shane B

I dont think I would want my car with anything but the 5speed.I will probably just get a stock 350 and keep the t5.It does need a short throw shifter though!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Looks great! Original paint?

DeltaElite121

Well, here's how I looked at things.. Either:
1) I could happily buy a $400 flywheel for my T56, and then another $600 clutch.. All of this on top of my $1,200 investment USED... = $2,200

OR

2) Go with a TH350 with a full manual valve body and completely upgraded internals all for $400 (NEW). All I need is a shifter and torque converter (totalling up to $450 for both high quality parts, thanks to supplier connections).

So at the end of the day.. $2,200 to handle 400RWHP with a USED setup, or $850 NEW? I think those AFR heads are looking pretty nice

Out of all seriousness though, the T5 just wasn't going to handle what I had waiting for it. That and I'd like to keep my feet intact and avoid a violent explosion from my transmission.

Shane B

/\I get where your coming from,but Im not going to be building a 400 hp 350.I will probably just put a stock one in and upgrade the clutch and flywheel.In the end its still just a weekend car to cruise around in.definetly wont be going to the track or street races.The 5 speed is the main reason I bought the car in the first place.I know the t5 isnt the trans to use for serious hp,I just want a good running 5.7 that can get out of its own way.

Shane B

Thanks!! No,I had the car painted about 4 yrs ago.

hw4mike

I don't know if sticks are considered rare or not. What I do know is that when I bought my 1988 IROC Coupe. I had to order it because I couldn't get one off any car lot in my area (SE Michigan). Same think applied when I bought my 1992 Z28 Convertible. I only have the Convertible now. Both cars included the 305tpi motor. An I've never seen another car like either one of them. So rare or not I'm keeping my Convertible.

Anyone else have a 1992 Z28 Convertible with the m5 trans?