92BLKL98

Who you callin' an old-timer? I'm only 61.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Second time at the drag strip and second time car broke. Last year the alternator failed and I ran out of battery. This time was supposed to be redemption with no excuses and I ended up shredding the belts in the first run and car overheated in the staging lanes before I realized what was happening. The belt looked like spaghetti and was wound around pulleys like weeds on a rototiller. Another 240 mile drive made useless. I have no idea why the belts shredded either, and I'm also concerned about engine damage from over heating. And the one run I did get was terrible (12.7 @ 118 mph) with massive spin at the line and I missed 3rd gear and had to double clutch and try for the gear twice.

I redeemed the night as best I could and got agreement from tech that I could run my truck even with all the gear in the back (I have a enclosed fiberglass topper). So my 6300 lb Ecoboost truck, with an extra 200 pounds of tools, floor jack, cooler, work bag, wood planks, spare tire, etc etc.... ran 14.5 seconds. But more than anything I was amazed at how much extra attention I could give to watching and leaving on the light while driving an auto tranny. It really brought to light how hard it really is to drive a manual at the drag strip. Makes me think hard about converting the Firebird to an auto.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Can somebody do me a favor and check how easily your tensioner pulley free-wheels? Mine will spin but it comes to a stop nearly immediately after spinning it. The other idler pulleys free-wheel very easily.

The belt strings were wrapped tightly around the shaft behind various pulleys and it has taken over an hour trying to cut it all out. The tensioner pulley is the last pulley that doesn't seem to move like I think it should.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

This is kind of embarrassing but I'll post it anyway. Literally the worst run I ever made in the car.

I am obviously not a drag racing regular. I was watching the tire smoke in my mirror and went right past the staging lights without knowing it.... then they had to yell at me again for not having my window rolled up.... then I was sleeping on the line big time.... then I spun my tires badly with a 2.5 second 60' time.... then I missed third gear and had to double clutch (which is the first time I have ever missed a gear in that car). Somehow I managed a 12.7 @ 118 anyway. It was a great night to race and I wish I had more chances after that but oh well, I'll do it again next fall.

In car view


Outside view

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

I got a brand new tensioner pulley sitting here and it free spins very smooth no drag.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thank you! Big help to know that.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you put the pull on that mustang though! bet his face was priceless when you went around him like a rocket after the traps. lol

skinny z

I did exactly that my first time out too.
And I rolled my window down before the return road.
And have had less than spectacular 60' times.
But I can't see you waiting until next year for another go. 240 miles or otherwise.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I'm pretty sure he cursed at the time booth too.... I was actually over 1/2 second quicker, I just left so late nobody could tell.

Next fall, not next year. It will very soon get too hot to be enjoyable.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They all can't be winners, keep plugging away and you'll nail it. Work on calming the excitement of it all, that is the key, slow your mind down, get in your zone and repeat the proper procedure exactly the same each time.
A auto trans makes things sooo easy but it isn't as fun to just drive around.
Yes, the pulleys should just freespin.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Here are the remains of the belts. Everything was wrapped tight around the shaft of most pulleys and it took over an hour to cut out all the pieces. (albiet working slowly while sipping cold sweet tea) It damaged some wiring for my AC compressor too. Much of it was wound very tightly around the AC compressor. Fortunately the belts went over the backside of the pulleys and the radiator escaped damage. New belts: $60




There was a chip in the rim of the power steering pulley. Not sure if the chip nicked the belt and then the belt unraveled, or if the tensioner let the belt loosen at high rpm. Either way, I have discovered the LS1 power steering pulleys are plastic! Really low inertia but feels like a piece of junk. I replaced the power steering pulley with a metal pulley from Turn One. There goes another $100 + shipping.




Poking around the internet it seems that the LS1 tensioner is known for throwing belts in performance driving situations, especially the road track guys where the engine decelerates quickly. Apparently GM also experienced problems because the LS2/LS3 tensioner has a taller rim. However, I see people still throw belts with the LS2 pulley, just not as often. And most the people saying the LS2 pulley fixed the problem are also using a shorter belt and running the tensioner near the install stop. That's really not a good idea because the casting can break if the tensioner slams against the stops.

I notice Katech makes a manual tensioner but I wasn't sure if that would be a good idea. After seeking help from an engineer that is a belt expert, I decided to go ahead and buy the Katech tensioner. Only trick is to run the belt at proper tension (a little tighter than stock) and to re-tighten after 24 hours to give the belt time to stretch. There goes another $120 + shipping. Katech has a recommended method of tightening the belt but I'm not sure if it results in proper tension, so I will be double checking the belt tension with a special gauge that measures the vibration frequency of the belt.

So.... $300 later I have the car running again. Who knew a belt could be so expensive.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I also changed out the rear springs from 175 lb/inch down to 150 lb/inch and the car rides noticeably better and isn't as jittery over bumps. I still have new Koni struts yet to install and hoping that will take it to the next level again.

88Greg

You just need to mentally practice for the strip. Go out way out somewhere deserted and stop and go thru the motions at the line...
Remember, unless you are grudge racing someone else at the strip, Don't worry too much about the green on the tree. Let that thing glow for abit until you feel the machine ready. Your RT might suffer....but has no effect on your ET.
What tires do you have ? At your power level and with a stick, You need mickeys to cut a good 60 and that will have huge effects on your 1/4 ET.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I already have MT ET Street S/S.

I looked at the data log. I was at 2500 rpm at the start (3% throttle), dove into the throttle to 30% and the tires broke loose and engine spiked to 6500 rpm. I completely got off the throttle, recovered, and quickly rolled back into it to near 100% throttle and the tires stuck. Typical start for me. I spin super easy off the line and then stick it from a roll.

I have an easier time on the street because I can better feel what the rear tires are doing and manage wheel spin. The track totally goofs me up. That 2nd video I posted does help me better understand what is happening though. Look how the car reacts to the launch. I thought it was the driver but I don't know if anybody could launch that car right now.

88Greg

A longer burnout may help then. ? You can do it (good ET) with a 6 speed !!. Just takes practice.

skinny z

You're right back to your secrets of traction on the street. At this point, considering you have properly adjusted LCARBs (or assuming so), it's a matter of weight transfer since there's little else left to tune on an otherwise stock 3rd gen. Adjustable shocks and struts are the direction I'll have to go to improve on my 60'.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

true.

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

I had the same problem with the tensioner, it would throw my belt mid track. I replaced it with one from ICT Billet at the suggestion of MW66Nova. I haven't been back to the track since, but I haven't had any issues since.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Roll cage is painted and I just began putting the interior back together. I was apprehensive about making cuts in the carpet but my work is not too shabby if I do say so myself! Now for my next trick I will install plastics in the rear seat area.... I will say it is going to be nice to have a full interior again after several months of driving with a stripped interior.





Picture of car in the paint booth.




Cage treated with sealer (prior to paint).

skinny z

Nice tight fit. Cage looks good in gray too.
Ready for low 11's now...

cam406406

iTrader: (1)

It looks great. Good job. Now low 11s **** i can do that with my riding mower lol. Boost that bitch and hold the **** on. Lol lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Okay, I'm going to rant for a second. Photobucket is a smelly dumpster fire. The site has been nearly impossible to use for a while and now they have the gaul to try charge me money to use their ridiculously horrible website.

Fortunately I snagged all my photos from Photobucket earlier this week when I got really frustrated with the site bogging down my computer and thought to myself, "This site is is horrible... better get my photos before this place goes bankrupt."

So, I have to figure out where to host my pictures are redo all the links. Until then none of my photos will display. Hopefully Google has a cached site so that I can get a little extra help figuring out what pictures went where.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, it's been on a downhill slide for awhile. I think you can pay to go ad free.
I'll most likely be pulling all my pictures soon as well.

skinny z

Why not just keep your pictures on your computer and post them from there?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

This site doesn't work like facebook .

89firebird

http://imgur.com/

skinny z

That's the only way I've posted pictures here. Select the photo icon in the tool bar above this dialogue box and post any photo from your PC.

rgauder

iTrader: (1)

If you're an amazon prime member, you get free photo storage.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I should retract that and say it didn't used to work like that and a lot of old pictures are still linked to a site like PBucket.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

$400/year if you want to use photobucket for 3rd party hosting like so many of us have for years for free. that's horse manure.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I see that your Photobucket picture links are blocked too. Today I began migrating everything to Google. Took a little investigative work to learn how to embed pictures from Google but I got things working now.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Cage is done and interior is together for the most part. Still need to install a couple interior pieces but that will take a little more time beyond this weekend. Cage work and paint was done by Herring Performance in Peoria, IL for those who are interested. This is the first cage they have done for a customer and they did a great job.




Rear seat is just for looks now. I installed the shoulder belts but didn't bother putting the latches back on the floor because it keeps the look a little more tidy without the latches showing.




Permanent 6 point built low to the floor to help with chassis rigidity, while a removable side bar (higher location) can be pinned in place to become NHRA compliant. My 4th gen seats are wider than 3rd gen seats so this would be a little easier on a stock 3rd gen car.




Cage is entirely unobtrusive for driver and passenger.




I wanted to keep the rear floor space clear and keep the hoop out of sight from side profile of the car, so that meant mounting in a slightly unusual location and going thru the interior panels. They did a great job cutting the plastics to fit.

92BLKL98

Looks nice. I'd just keep the back seat folded down anyway it looks cleaner that way. An adult size passenger can't really be comfy back there anyhow and especially with the cross bar on the hoop. I always considered my Z to be a two seater.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Stunning, looks very nice.

cam406406

iTrader: (1)

Its unsafe for anyone in the back seat now! If u get in a accident they will smash there head on a bar. Don't ever put someone back there. My thoughts

92BLKL98

Agreed, that's why I'd just fold down the seat and call it a two seat ride. Cleaner that way IMHO.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No worries....

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I prefer to not look like I'm on a haul to the Home Depot.

There is actually a good reason.... The carpet has been slit into 3 pieces and the seat is holding the carpet in place.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The other thing I had done at the shop was to restore ground clearance. I was using a Hawks Sinister (UMI) mid-length torque arm and the ground clearance was incredibly poor where the front mount bar drooped under the exhaust. And the addition of Alston inner subframe connectors added more problems to the pile. The subframe connectors battled for real-estate with the Hawks T56 crossmember, and also went right thru the zone where the mounting bar spanned for the UMI torque arm. Taking everything into consideration, we decided to start over from scratch by fabricating a new trans mount and torque arm.

Picture of rear attachment points of Alston inner subframe connectors. For those that might be wondering, inner subframe connectors span the actual subframe of the vehicle (outer subframe connectors do not). The Alston installed pretty good with just a little fuss. And I kid you not, that is virgin 30 year old underbody that has never been cleaned.







The shop made a custom torque arm, longer than a mid-length but shorter than stock. It put the front pivot in a location where there is enough room to make height adjustments. The mounting bar was welded across the new Alston subframe connectors. You can also see the new trans crossmember that was fabricated. The result is tons of ground clearance!




The UMI axle bracket was recycled to use with the new torque arm.




And picture of the trans mount for those who didn't see it when I posted last month.

92BLKL98

Nah that is what my Superduty is for

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not interesting to you folks, but satisfactory to me.... Got this thread reconstructed and my Photobucket is officially a barren wasteland. Didn't leave even one file there.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Where did you move them to? I'm looking for a spot as well.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Google. It's the future with all these Android phones out there.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Thank you very much. For those of us following, mostly in silence, being able to go back, re-read, and still have the pictures is a great resource.

I know what a PITA it is to manage pictures and update links. So thanks again for putting in the effort to keep your post complete.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Your nice words just made it all worthwhile, man!

RavingMadly

I appreciate it as well. That's actually one of my few gripes on this site is that photo links are outdated and everyone just went "Instead of explaining, I'll show you." Renovating this must have been a massive job, but form those of us following along behind, we do appreciate it

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

This is a sick nasty ride man! Love it! I would have to say this is easily one of the best documented/organized threads on this forum. Well done! I appreciate all the quick links in the first post and all the working pictures!

When I get back to building my formula, I can only hope I can document it as nicely as you have.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i just realized this car has no driveshaft loop...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thanks, Bullydawg! I can't tell you how many times I have found those links useful when I want to see something I did, or share with someone. This is a 5 year story so far and it gets impossible to find stuff in a thread this long, especially when I change my mind 100 posts later. Helps me more than anybody else!

Right. Just got overlooked last time it was in the shop. It is one of those future projects, but not this season -- I just want to drive for a while.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Well, it happened.... car has been hit..... by a Mercedes. More to follow.