mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

congrats!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Congrats man, long road but you are finally there.

Sounds perfect

mwfrels

So when do we get to enjoy a vid w/sound of this new to the streets again f-body beast?

I'm jealous!

M

ransam

iTrader: (2)

looks good! I am running the holley set up also and I'm curious why you had some one tune your car when the ecm will auto correct to your set afr? I'm asking because I'm getting ready to get mine running in the next few days after 20 yrs being off the road. I'm debating if I should just put some miles on it and let it do its thing or if I need someone to do a good baseline tune and play with it from there? If you don't mind me asking what it cost to have them tune it as I'm not to far from you? You can pm me if youd like thanks.

skinny z

Well done.
But remember, John Q Law is also attracted to bright red sports cars....

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thanks, guys!

I don't know. Less than 50% chance right now. I still have quite a bit of work left to do to make it road worthy but I am busting my buns on it. Took a day of vacation today to work on it.

The most difficult task when tuning is idle and drivability. You still have to do that manually. I bought the HP EFI because I thought it was self-tuning. I learned that is an exaggeration. You need a good tuner, or you have to become one yourself. I will PM you the other info.

ransam

iTrader: (2)

I understand it's not completely "self tuning" but rather it adjusts itself to whatever afr you tell it to maintain. I was thinking that would keep it safe enough to drive around and play with the fuel and timing maps but I know zero about tuning so maybe an initial tune to get me rolling in the right direction would be the way to go. Do you plan on doing any adjustments on your own or are you going to leave it to the pros?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I will probably keep working with the pros unless I get unhappy for some reason. The truth is I have almost no interest in learning how to tune. I am controlling all the programming of custom inputs and outputs, and I did set up the initial tune to get the car running. However, it was entirely undriveable because the engine would die if I let off the throttle.


From a process standpoint, the first thing the tuner did was spend a lot of time working below 3000 rpm. This was with the car parked and not driving. Then it moved to the dyno for a lot more time on idle and driveability below 3000 rpm. The tuning above 3000 was done much more quickly. And finally it took just a few minutes to set timing at wide open throttle.

ransam

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the pm a lot of good info! I believe I will give redline a call as I want my car to run and drive well out of the gate and I have nitrous on it and would like a couple of tunes made for the spray. Thanks again for the info enjoy the "new" car I'm sure it's a blast!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Well, I didn't say it quite like that. Your decision is fine but both shops can handle what you want. Herring is an expert with HP Tuner. Redline is an expert with Holley HP EFI. Herring has better equipment for tuning driveability. They just struggled with idle on my car and I am going to see if Redline can fix it. I could have a hardware issue somewhere so the jury is still out.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

It sure didn't take long to need my first tow. About 10 minutes of driving for those who are counting.

I went for a short drive to calibrate the speedometer and everything was going fine and then the speedo shut off and lost power to the Dakota Digital box. I decided to pull in to a store parking lot and shut the car down to check on some wiring and then the car would not restart. Crank but no fire. Ended up getting a flatbed tow home. After I got home I hooked up the laptop to data log the dead crank and wouldn't you know the car started. So basically I am screwed and will have another tow soon.

But the speedo is now calibrated so we'll call it a partial win.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Holy ****, I remember this car and the last time I did see it on here I think there wasn't even a hood on it haha! Congrats on the progress!

Alex

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Boy, you have a fantastic memory! Circa 2001.
Glad I never cut the hood for that stupid supercharged big block.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

HAHAHA, BINGO! Always admired your car so easy to remember lol.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I had put Hotckis springs on the car and when the car was in the shop it was sitting all goofy with the front really low and leaning to the driver side. It is still a great mystery to me, but when the car came home it was sitting at correct height and even from side to side. I know new springs settle, but I never heard of it gaining altitude. Well, in the meantime I had already rushed out and bought a set of Ground Control weight jacks. And it turns out that was a very good idea because I have a ground clearance issue.

Picture of the front springs and jacks installed. Now if you look just to the left of the exhaust header you will see a bar that drops down. That is the torque arm mount where it dips under the exhaust in the middle of the car.... and it is very close to the ground. I didn't expect that when I bought that torque arm kit. So now I have to be VERY concerned about ground clearance. I upped the spring rates to help limit movement. The Hotchkis springs were 600 lb/in fronts, and 100-140 lb/in variable rate in the rear. The Ground Control springs are now 800 lb/in front and 200 lb/in rear. And I can change ride height if I need more clearance.




Rear springs and jacks installed. Now I can balance corner weights of the car for better handling. I kept the stock upper isolator in the rear. Some people do and some people don't.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Now this isn't exciting at all, and most of you will probably be appalled that I kept the stock radio, but I needed new front speakers because I accidentally threw away the stock speakers many years ago. Turns out buying speakers that fit in the Firebird dash takes some effort. The driver side has very little space for the magnet. It is shrouded by the gauge pod and side-window defrost tube. It needs a small and short magnet to fit. And then the height of the speaker needs to be pretty short too or it will hit the dash pad.

If you are like me and don't care about a whopper stereo and just want something to fit in place of stock speakers, this is it. Crutchfield set me up with these Kenwood KFC-4675C and they drop right in with no modifications.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Nice choice! I went with these a few years ago: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSG4...TS-G4642R.html

The factory CD player drives them very nicely, I was surprised.

92BLKL98

You are going to tighten those tie rod (toe adjustment) adjust sleeve nuts aren't you, they don't need to be left loose.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yep, it goes in for alignment on Tuesday.

92BLKL98

Cool, how did you set the initial alignment to drive it to the shop? The last time I set mine after a total front end rebuild I used a measuring tape and level. Got pretty close.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I did it by sight. Tire shop is only 3 blocks from my house with mostly 25 mph speed limit.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

LOL! I was not expecting anybody to appreciate that I kept the stock radio with cassette player.

RavingMadly

Nice to see you've finally gotten to take it out on the roads. I'm new to the forum, but reading through your thread, I wish everyone was as diligent about posting part numbers and sharing information. I've lurked on here for a while now, and most people are like 'I modified it and put it in', where you go into detail about how and what you used to do it. I'm maybe a tenth of the way into my own rebuild, which will include an LS swap, so thank you in advance for all the information you've laid out. hopefully it helps people for years to come.

R13_Braz

Totally stoked for you, sir! I know how much I wanted to fire mine up and drive her, and that was only after 6 months of working on it. I can't even begin to imagine how it feels for you, with the years you've put in! Looks wonderful.

Can't wait to hear a sound clip!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

It is nice to hear that. Thank you.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thank you!

It isn't actually road worthy yet and I have some things left to do. Might be a while before more pictures and any kind of video.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Got my tires aligned today but it was an inglorious occasion. I came roaring into the parking lot, shut it down by the front door, and then the car wouldn't restart. It is the same hot start issue that left me stranded last time I dove it. Ended up getting pushed around the building and up onto the alignment rack.

Car cooled down and could be started by the time the alignment was done but it was a fight to keep the engine running all the way home. If it stops running then I am stuck wherever it dies for the next hour until the engine cools down. It's a real pain in the butt! I have an appointment next week at Redline Motorsports to get the tune ironed out.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

That kind of issue is always the most aggravating......

are the fuel lines getting hot while driving? How old is the fuel pump?

Seems like it revolves around how long you drive it.......

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

This happened ALL the time when I had a SBC 383…..
NEVER now.
Vent your tank….

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I think I got the hot start issue figured out. The engine wasn't getting enough fuel so I added fuel to the crank table and it fired right up.

And I officially went for my first 'play' drive and got on the throttle a bit. Talk about fun! It spins the drag radials on command at any legal speed, but it seems to be very predicable and tracks straight (so far). This is going to be a fun car!

Warnd

Awesome news about the starter! Really happy everything is working out for you. Im sure you will have to iron out small details but it must be satisfying to be done. I hope to be in your shoes within the next few weeks.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yep, I found your build thread and I'll be watching.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Got over to Redline Motorsports who are experts with Holley HP and they worked on the drivability aspects of the tune for me. I drove around town for hours causing bad things to happen while the shop owner ran his laptop and kept making adjustments. I really liked the process because I was doing all the driving and got to decide if I was happy with the results. The car now idles much better and drivability is very much improved at low rpm. I can drive the car so much smoother now and the clutch is a lot easier to use from a stop! They also took time to teach me things about the software, explained what they did, and made sure I could handle minor changes in the future. Really nice people!

I also had my first incident of the torque arm smashing on the road. It was just a small bulge in the pavement and it really surprised me. I don't think that torque arm mount is going to last very long before it is smashed up or ripped apart.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Wow, the shop owner sounds like a great guy! Kudos to them for riding around with you *and* teaching you how to use the software!

So the torque arm issue.... is it time to revisit the Hooker crossmember???

I'm this |.| close to pulling the trigger on one and start messing with it on my firebird. I also need to yank the drive shaft and have it balanced.... gotta figure out this vibration before throwing anymore money at the car.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No, it is time to drive. No more 'project' car sitting in the garage.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'm glad to hear it.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Can we get an AMEN!

Warnd

Wow talk about awesome service and a stand up guy! I feel like people are more and more hesitant to answer any questions or even spend time talk with you now a days. Refreshing to hear that people like that still exist that will take the time to do right by the customer and the car. Even more surprising that he taught you how to use the software which is awesome. Now you can make any slight changes you might need to on the fly.

I totally understand what you mean about it not being a project car anymore. I would run that torque arm until it falls out or gets ripped out haha. But to be completely honest, that whole hooker set up looks really enticing. I am half tempted to buy the engine mounts and crossmember for my car, but no way im ripping everything apart again before I get to drive it.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Actually the car is miserable to drive. It is fun to make some noise around town, but unbelievably miserable on the freeway. The ride quality is beyond horrible. The car takes a constant severe pounding from the road. And the noise on the freeway is enough to cause permanent hearing damage. I drove the car 5 hours yesterday and I wanted out of it after just 1 hour. I got my fill of it for a while and drove my insanely quiet and smooth riding Ecoboost truck today.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

time to sell

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No, it's perfect. My wife doesn't even want to drive it.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sucks getting older

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I don't like the way my brakes feel so I am trying to change that. I have C6 Corvette front brakes and 'mystery' rear brakes. For the sake of conversation, let's just say I have PBR LT1 Camaro rear brakes.

The brake pedal has long travel, feels over assisted and mushy, and I have the prop valve wide open and the rear brakes don't lock up at all. I initially thought I was fighting air leaks but finally concluded it was the master cylinder. The '89 master cylinder is a dual bore design (24 mm / 31.75 mm) and lacks the volume I need to operate rear disc brakes. I consulted with the Baer brake company and they recommended a master cylinder with 1" bore that is designed for disc brakes. After a quick search I learned that the master cylinder from LS1 Camaro has a 1" bore so I decided to swap out parts.

Job is done today and the end result is the brakes feel exactly the same. I am still hunting for the cause. I now suspect the adjustable prop valve is to blame because I still can't lock up rear brakes, and everything feels the same no matter where I set the adjusting ****. I have a new prop valve on order and hopefully that will change things. If not, then I will probably have no choice but to purchase a tool to measure rear line pressure to continue the investigation.

Update: I ended up removing the 4th gen master cylinder and went back to stock 3rd gen. Explanation in post #1171, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post6293557

----------

Here is the new 4th gen LS1 Camaro master cylinder. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it has a switch integrated into the unit that closes the circuit when fluid level is low. Sounds like a good opportunity to repurpose some old wiring from the car. The original 1-wire connector that went to the stock 3rd gen proportioning valve is wired to the BRAKE warning light in the dash. If that wire is grounded then the BRAKE warning light comes on. I found a left over 2-pin Metripack connector pigtail from my original engine harness and spliced the wire onto that pigtail, and grounded the other wire in the pigtail. If the fluid level goes low, then the switch closes and the BRAKE warning light comes on at the dash.




3rd gen and 4th gen master cylinder side by side. The 4th gen master cylinder is much shorter in length. I am not sure yet if the 3rd gen push rod is the correct length but I am using it nonetheless. Baer recommends 0.005" clearance between rod and plunger. The brake line threaded fittings are the same type as the 3rd gen. The front brake line fitting is very close to same location when mounted in the car so the front line can be connected with a gentle tweak of the line. The rear brake line, however, is nowhere close and I had to create a new line between the master and the prop valve.




I have been doing so much bleeding of the brakes that I wanted a little helper to make the job easier. I bought Russell speed bleeders for all four corners of the car and it seems to work well. Stock bleeder valve is on the right, and speed bleeder is on the left. I chose the Russell over the Earl's because Russell has an internal check valve whereas Earl's has an external check valve that I would think can be easily damaged.




4th gen LS1 F-body master cylinder installed in car on the stock 3rd gen booster.

JayBoCC2

I put in the 4th gen master/booster on my car during the swap, because i heard of adjustability issues with the founders camber plates when you needed the space and that the 4th gen helped with this.

It fit perfectly hopefully i got it setup right. Sad to hear you're unhappy with your brakes...

Time to get a bolt up 2010 ss brake kit for the rear w/ parking brake

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

What brakes and prop valve do you have? And what does the pedal feel like?

JayBoCC2

88 GTA WS6 4wdisc factory prop valve, and i have not filled the system and use the brakes yet, i'm still very much WIP

Right now i have 2010ss big brakes up front, and stock disc brakes on rear (i plan on 2010ss brake swap for the rear, but i need a new 10bolt housing or a diff rear end altogether)

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You've changed it up pretty good. Probably be a trial and error thing like me.

JayBoCC2

Definitely is! I've used a lot of your thread to figure out some of my pieces, right now i'm figuring out how to mate the E-Rod PNP kit to my car and what other sensors i have to "manually" wire to get my gauges to work.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You have to manually wire the coolant temp, oil pressure, tachometer, and speedometer.

Everything except speedometer passes through C100 connector on the firewall. Although, I found a way on my '89 to wire the speedo through C100. I suppose your '88 might be similar or the same. The following link shows my C100 connections. (Just use your imagination to pretend you're using a Chevy PCM instead of my Holley HP.) The second link below is my discovery of how I could run speedometer through C100.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5825637

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5827481

You'll need to swap out the coolant temp sensor on the engine for a '98 Camaro coolant temp sensor. Buy the repair pigtail from the auto store so you can graft the connector in to the harness. I highly recommend you locate it to front driver side if it is not there already. You'll be glad you did when you try to put the AC housing back on the firewall.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5422745

You and I both have GEN IV engine blocks. I used a LS1 Camaro oil pressure sender and wired it directly to the gauge in the dash. The LS1 PCM does not monitor oil pressure so it doesn't care whether the wire is connected to PCM or not (it is connected from factory). I don't know if that is true or not for your E-Rod PCM.

You already have an electronic speedometer so it should be able to understand the speed signal from the engine PCM. You don't need the speedometer buffer box any more. The goal is to get the speed signal from the engine PCM to your speedometer input, which is "pin C" of the connector at VSS buffer box. You can do it directly, or indirectly by tying into C207 connector pin K, and then jump pins C and F at the connector for the VSS buffer box. Most people do it the indirect route because they have other connections at C207 anyway and it is a more tidy layout.

You'll need to bypass the PassKey system too. I had a hard time finding good info on that so here is the summary of all my work. There are 3 ways to get the job done. I chose the method that keeps the start relay in tact.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5963351

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5965784

Have fun with that drive by wire setup!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Out of curiosity, what type of brake hoses are on the car? Rubber or braided?