cam406406

iTrader: (1)

Great to hear!
now lets work on adding a turbo!!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have used both inner and outer subframe connectors and the outers feel way better to me. The cage will help but why didn't you start with the cheaper S&W setup or something like it since you were going to change it up?? Just curious.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

There is no grand plan being played out. Essentially I steered away from anything with high side bars. The modifications are an afterthought after having it in hand and we're still playing it by ear during the install. The Hawks cage has some obvious downsides too, which I am getting more concerned about as I learn more about this.

I probably wouldn't make the same choices if I got to start fresh again.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

s&w side bars are only high if you place them high. i'm installing a 10 point of theirs now and have installed 4 of their kits previously. as far as a pre-bent kit goes, it's an amazing fit.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yup, that's what I have in my black car.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If you may change your mind about the hawks cage let me know, have someone that may be interested in it b4 it gets modified.

skinny z

What was the reasoning for choosing the Alston SFCs as opposed to Spohn's? I have the Spohn's and as many have reported, jacking the car at one corner raises the entire side. Combined with the STB, it makes for a rigid platform. (Of course that is all subjective)
At the very least they are unobtrusive.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I didn't know Spohn made inner subframe connectors. Alston is the only one that I know of that does. Maybe there are others, I'm just not aware.

I already have outer subframe connectors. I can lift 3 tires off the ground from a jack point. Although that makes for an impressive demonstration, it is probably more a function of where I place the jack than it is a demo of subframe rigidity.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I will say this, up until last year I didn't even know there was such a thing as inner and outer subframe connectors. People rarely talk about the inners, but as far as I can tell those are more effective than the outers. Kind of baffled how I can be involved with this site for so long and never understand the distinction. I guess I just wasn't paying close enough attention.

prossi

Spohn doesn't have inners

skinny z

I didn't know you had SFCs at all. (talk about paying attention).

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I'll take you up on that. Cage is officially for sale to anybody that will pick it up locally near Peoria, IL. Today we decided to go in a different direction.

This is the Hawks Motorsports "Firehawk replica" bolt in cage. Very well made and brand spanking new with a fantastic powdercoat the same color as my seats. Everything is there to install it.

4th gen Trans Am grey. The cage has a tad bit of metal flake. No pictures until I bring the cage home from the shop next week. Edit: Picture added.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Kenny Brown. Beats the pants off Spohn.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Very nice talking with you last night, I have passed the info along and It may work out like we talked about.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Car is still in the shop but I got to sneak in tonight and see some of the progress.

Alston inner subframe connectors are installed. Not sure if the shop had to make any modifications but whatever they did it fits awesome. After seeing how and where those things tie in I am VERY glad I added it to the car. Seriously good addition to chassis.

The Hawks Sinister torque arm mount had to be cut out to make room for the inner subframe connectors. The original mount had terrible ground clearance so I say good riddance anyway. Still have the same challenge though of how to go around the exhaust without causing ground clearance problems. Hoping the shop can sort out a good solution but I can tell you that it is not easy.

The Alston's also compete with real estate that the T56 trans crossmember wants to occupy. I currently have a Hawks double hump crossmember on the car, and also handed the shop the Holley crossmember I bought last year. They have my blessing to cut up those parts any way they want or make something themselves. It will be fun to see the final product.

Roll cage is coming together . I did not order another cage because the shop made a custom cage in-house. I will show more when it is done but we've got some cool things going on with that. Really glad I worked with a local shop because it has been beneficial that I could interact with them to make decisions about the cage.

I will have pictures and finished product in a week or two.

indebt

iTrader: (1)

I have no subframe connectors at this point. I've done some researching but still not sure what's best. Seen good comments about the Alston's so might lean towards them. I guess outers can really be any company? Luckily exhaust should be last thing I do, so that might help.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not all outer subframe connectors are equal. There are a few things to look for on your shopping list.

* Wraps the rear control arm mount, becoming part of the control arm mount. That improves transfer of load from suspension to the subframe connectors. Some of the lesser designs "attach to" but don't become part of the rear control arm mount structure.

* Triangulation to the transmission tunnel.

* Tuck to underside of the car. You want to be able to stitch weld the span to the underside of the car. If you can't do that then all you've done is add extra weight to the car.

That advice is for conventional subframe connectors. Detroit Speed takes it to a whole different level with their design but it require surgery to install and is quite expensive.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The only reason I have to deal with exhaust is because of my short torque arm.

indebt

iTrader: (1)

So after reading your tips and Spohn's description of their connectors, they look to be my choice. Thanks.

Still need torque arm as well. Probably go long, maybe BMR. It's tough because I want the most exhaust clearance, so I'm trying to buy components right the first time. Need crossmember, torque arm, subframe connectors. Gonna run a th400. The new Holley Hooker crossmember looks to do that, but is a lititle pricier than UMI or so.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

A little preview of the type of things happening to the car the last month. Here is a look at the new transmission crossmember before paint. The crossmember bolts to mounting provisions that are welded to the Alston subframe connectors. It is really compact compared to the Hawks crossmember that was in there before. The inner subframe connectors took the real estate where part of the Hawks crossmember used to sit and it was easier to fabricate a new crossmember then to try to make the old one work.

Also, in the quest for ground clearance the shop has made a new torque arm that is longer than the Hawks piece (UMI) but shorter than stock. No pictures of that yet but more to follow. The roll cage will be welded in this week and painted. Hopefully I'll have the car back in my hands by this weekend but no guarantees.

skinny z

That's pretty slick.

cam406406

iTrader: (1)

Yes it does. Loooks real nice. Now ask them to build u a turbo kit

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Went by the shop again today and saw the custom torque arm installed. They did it, I got all my ground clearance back!

These guys are knocking it out of the park.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

If they are doing that great of a job, perhaps they can make a run of T56 crossmembers and torque arm setups for the rest of us!

can't wait to see the pics

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

This is not adaptable to be a "bolt on" kit. All the chassis work was custom fit to my car and welded in place.

It's not like a manufacturing outfit where they have guys that are paid to just bend tube and weld all day. This is a custom speed shop where you drop off your car and pay by the hour.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Still an interesting approach, which could be mimicked by others in their configuration.

Get some pics of the torque arm for us (which I'm sure you had planned to do...).

skinny z

I managed a small chassis shop for a time and there's quite a difference between building a one-off part and building one for duplication. The design/build process just doesn't lend itself well to reproduction. At least in the sense of getting the customer's car out the door in a timely manner. Which rarely happened anyway. (One thing inevitably leads to another...)
Custom work done well takes time.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Looks like that c-clamp is against the frame on the pass side, or at least will rattle. Maybe you could heat and dimple the frame ( 1/4" ) right where the clamp is.
I know, because it's next on my list.

Are the Koni yellows in, yet?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Do you mean the exhaust v-band clamp? Ya, the passenger header knocks on the frame sometimes.

I won't get the car back until some time next week when I will install the Koni struts.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Duh, yeah v-band. Septic pipe broke in the house and my mind seems to be leaking as well - LOL. Idiots used copper and the whole stack has to be replaced - 2nd floor to basement, GRRRR.

If you ever need extra stainless T-bolts, PM me.

skinny z

That'll be a tidy sum in scrap. Don't let your contractors haul it away. The cash can be parlayed into car parts....(just trying to see a bright side...)

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Here are some 'build in process' pictures of the torque arm. We reused the UMI axle side bracket and made a new arm that is longer. This will mate up to a new front mount tied into the inner subframe connectors. You will see where the front is located when I get pictures installed on the car.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I just noticed the arm is approaching the bracket from the wrong side....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was trying to figure that out myself. Wasn't sure what was going on.

cam406406

iTrader: (1)

Big $$$ in this car now!!!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Probably still have less sunk in this car than somebody buying a new optioned Toyota Camry.... And mine makes people smile.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Roll cage pictures in the raw before paint....

I was so excited to take the car home that I forgot there was plastic on the seats! I'm going to have the car for about a week and then the cage will be painted. All the work on the underside is done and I will have more pictures of that soon.







The upper side bar is to meet track regulations and is removable for every day use. The lower bar is permanent and gives me the 6 point rigidity without the hassle.




We used nice, short billet stubs for the swing outs so it didn't protrude forward and make contact with my arm.




Nice tuck of the removable upper bar around the door panel. It actually makes for a comfortable arm rest when in use.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Looks awesome!

How was the drive? Did you feel the chassis was more planted? Tq arm and crossmember feel ok?

rgauder

iTrader: (1)

Looking good man.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

what was their logic on putting 2 door bars like that in? looks good.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Because I asked for it. I did this for chassis strengthening, not because of NHRA. I wanted a low bar for every day use. The upper bar is only to get by NHRA tech inspection for the 1 time a year I might go to the track. And honestly, as of yet I have not run the number to require a cage but it is inevitable given my 125 mph trap speed.

Remember, this is not a race car. This is my fun driver.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I dig it !

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Oh, man, if I had any dignity left then it was all used up tonight. I hadn't removed the swing out bar yet because I wanted the guys at work to see it. I stop at a gas station on the way home tonight and rumble in and park across from a couple guys on motorcycles. Everyone is trying to not pay attention but the car is hard to ignore. I open the door, struggle to pull the pin from the bar because it is awkward being behind me, and then push on the bar to swing it out.... and push..... and bump.... and push and strain.... and bounce my body against it.... and slam my body against it.... over and over again. It ain't movin', man. The chassis settled a bit and that thing was stuck. I think to myself, okay I'll just climb out the hard way this one time. I swing my leg over the bar and try to pull myself out and I can't get out.

So here those guys are looking at a fat guy stuck in his car with his leg over the bar and body crunched up trying to fit between the bar and the roof. The reality of the situation becomes apparent to me and I ask one of the guys if he can pull the bar open. "Sure", he says. He comes over and pulls on it.... and tugs.... and pulls harder.... and I'm telling him, I did that, put some real muscle in it please... Now he is yanking on it with his body weight and the car is rocking and FINALLY! the thing opens up and I can gas up my car!

Oh, and the bar is coming out tonight!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

It doesn't end there either. I just went back outside and some bird **** all over my car.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Angry Birds! (they're jealous)

indebt

iTrader: (1)

Haha that actually made me lol

prossi

lol reminds me of this...look up fat guy getting out of bmw i8 video

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i get in and out of my car easier with the roll bar than i did without probably. have to get 1 leg out, then use the other leg to push your way out. have done it a long time now but i do remember how awkward it was when i was first learning.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Wow, lol.

kiztope

I almost feel inspired to start the rebuild on my 92! (I really can't believe that so many of the "old timers" are still hanging around on this forum... )