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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Thanks for the help. I made a new bracket that helped but it's not perfect. The hood will push down on the cable and put a little torque on the plastic mounting bracket so I'll have to see if it holds or breaks over time. Mounting point is really close to the throttle body pull, so I'm a little concerned that the cable could jump the groove. But the pedal feels smooth and has even force through the whole travel.
Today was not a good day. Went for a short drive and engine oil pressure plummeted when hot and there is a loud ticking noise from engine. This engine could be the most expensive paper weight you've ever seen.
So I'm hoping the ticking noise is just a rocker arm hitting the valve cover. I took the valve cover off and it appears there are some light witness marks on the humps on the underside of the cover. I filed it down some for more clearance.
The engine also has a new Autozone oil pressure sensor and I am curious if perhaps the new sensor doesn't play well with my stock gage. So I took off the manifold and swapped out for the LS7 pressure sensor and wired it into my Holley HP harness. This way I'll know the real oil pressure on the laptop. If that doesn't work then I guess I'll change out the o-ring on the oil pickup tube. If that doesn't work.... well, let's not talk about that right now.
Good news is that there is oil pressure. My stock gage was reading waaaay low at idle, like in the red zone near 0 psi. So I wired in the LS7 pressure sensor into the Holley HP EFI and I can see that there is actually 20-25 psi at hot idle. Seems like a low number but GM spec allows as low as 10 psi at hot idle. (Can you believe that???) I was used to seeing higher pressure with my last engine but apparently the extra oil demand for the lifter axle oiling will lower pressure about 10 psi. So the numbers add up and I am now comfortable with that. And thank goodness!!!!
The loud tapping noise is gone after clearancing the driver side valve cover. A persistent ticking noise remains though. Strange thing is the ticking noise is most noticeable while sitting inside the car, not while standing in front of the engine bay. I think it's either the clutch or an exhaust leak. Betting on exhaust leak at the moment.
And speaking of rattling clutch..... gee hosa fat that thing rattles now! It's the same clutch but rebuilt. Ram said it would rattle more this time because they don't use the straps any more. My gosh they weren't kidding!
And while on the subject of loud things, I used to complain my car is loud but now it's super loud. As a friend said to me, high compression is loud. Both my ears hurt after 15 miles of easy driving.
Awesome news. Make sure you re torque the yella terra rockers now that the engine has run. Tony recommends that. What exhaust are you running again? Cats?
First thing I am doing is removing the 4th gen LS1 F-body master cylinder and switching back to the stock 3rd gen master cylinder. I confirmed that the 4th gen master results in a significant gap between the master cylinder and the booster pin. This is the cause of the dead pedal near the top of travel. I also confirmed that the 3rd gen master sets closer to the booster pin, so that should get rid of the dead pedal.
And the verdict is in. No more dead pedal after going back to the 3rd gen master. The brake pedal feels like it should for the first time ever. Brakes engage immediately and inspire confidence. Pedal is using far less throw than it used to.
Hawks (Stainless Works) 2" primary headers with 3.5" over the axle. I think that kit comes with the Turbo S-tube muffler (maybe ?). It's a full size muffler but is a center on center, straight thru pipe.
So glad it was a simple fix with the oil psi. I have that type of lifter also and noticed the same thing. Your brakes issues are one reason I haven't fixed what isn't broken!.... yet lol
Good news is that there is oil pressure. My stock gage was reading waaaay low at idle, like in the red zone near 0 psi. So I wired in the LS7 pressure sensor into the Holley HP EFI and I can see that there is actually 20-25 psi at hot idle. Seems like a low number but GM spec allows as low at 10 psi at hot idle. (Can you believe that???) I was used to seeing higher pressure with my last engine but apparently the extra oil demand for the lifter axle oiling will lower pressure about 10 psi. So the numbers add up and I am now comfortable with that. And thank goodness!!!!
The loud tapping noise is gone after clearancing the driver side valve cover. A persistent ticking noise remains though. Strange thing is the ticking noise is most noticeable while sitting inside the car, not while standing in front of the engine bay. I think it's either the clutch or an exhaust leak. Betting on exhaust leak at the moment.
And speaking of rattling clutch..... gee hosa fat that thing rattles now! It's the same clutch but rebuilt. Ram said it would rattle more this time because they don't use the straps any more. My gosh they weren't kidding!
And while on the subject of loud things, I used to complain my car is loud but now it's super loud. As a friend said to me, high compression is loud. Both my ears hurt after 15 miles of easy driving.
my ears also hurt after ~20 mins of driving! I thought I was the only one...
im running full Holley hooker LS swap exhaust. Idle isn’t too bad but when you give it gas it gets loud quick!
It's not even tuned yet and it just clobbered my old 427 with only 65% throttle and 20 degrees of timing. 300 lb/hr fuel at part thottle and car all over the road at 80 mph.
It's not even tuned yet and it just clobbered my old 427 with only 65% throttle and 20 degrees of timing. 300 lb/hr fuel at part thottle and car all over the road at 80 mph.
That's awesome. Can't wait for some videos and a dyno run. That's one of the reasons I went with a smaller motor (is that against the Geneva Conventions?). I figured a MMS 377 would be hard enough to contain no less a MMS LS7. Congrats.
I'm trying! But I'm far from being a good wrencher and sometimes it can get frustrating & challenging for me. And I'm so freakin' slooooooow at getting things done!
Originally Posted by irishhockey34
and here I am thinking my 360whp car is fast...
Ya, but you have two things I can't have back: (1) A civil driving car that rarely needs maintenance; and (2) Money in your pocket. You're going to lose both if you go this route. It's incredibly FUN to drive my car for short bits of time but it's not practical or sustainable. That's why it collects only somewhere between 1K - 1.5K miles per summer. I guess what I'm saying is if you find yourself driving it a lot then that means you did something right!
I'm trying! But I'm far from being a good wrencher and sometimes it can get frustrating & challenging for me. And I'm so freakin' slooooooow at getting things done!
Ya, but you have two things I can't have back: (1) A civil driving car that rarely needs maintenance; and (2) Money in your pocket. You're going to lose both if you go this route. It's incredibly FUN to drive my car for short bits of time but it's not practical or sustainable. That's why it collects only somewhere between 1K - 1.5K miles per summer. I guess what I'm saying is if you find yourself driving it a lot then that means you did something right!
yea that's a good way to put it especially gets less civil with NA when you want more power , hence why boost is so popular these days cause you have the power and drivability to a extent but still less money in your pocket
Alright, I'm going to ask what you guys think. Here's a video of a ticking noise at idle. It is present but not loud at idle. Rev the engine and it doesn't really get any worse. Go for a drive and it gets loud. Not entirely sure the two noises are from the same source.
Went through the valvetrain and measured for proper pushrod lengths again. Measured every pushrod too and found the lengths vary more than I thought. So I moved them around to create the best situation and the preloads became much more consistent. Now every lifter has a proper preload of about 0.041 to 0.044 on paper, and the wrench turns method appears to back that up.
The clutch is not nearly as drivable as it was before the rebuild (really grabby now) and it clatters like hell with the clutch pedal pushed in. The clatter quiets down a lot with clutch released but I'm wondering if the noise while driving is actually the clutch and not the engine. Not sure how that happens though.
Its really hard to hear in the video. Does it change sound when the engine is warm (piston slap)? Is it a noisy injector? Does it change pitch with RPM?
Are you running the Johnson short travel tie bars with axle oiling? I think .040 preload might be too much IIRC.
Yes, Johnson link-bar low-travel lifters with axle oiling. Desired window is 0.038 - 0.045" preload cold. Ideal preload when hot is 0.025", which corresponds to about 0.040" preload cold. This accounts for 0.015" growth of aluminum head and block when hot.
I drove it again today and it's just not right. Put a stethoscope to the valve covers and it seems there is more noise in the front of the passenger side head than other locations. I think I've got no choice but to remove the head and inspect & replace the lifters on that side. Totally sucks and not something I want to do but it ain't going to fix itself so I just need to suck it up and start working.
I don't know, it feels like being the guy that sells me parts is what pays off.
If I had known better the final cost of all this then I would have bought a custom built crate engine. Thought I was being more thrifty doing this myself, but nope.
Then again, if something went wrong with the crate engine then they'd say ship it back and that's a terrible hassle too. At least I can work on this one at home without voiding a warranty.
I don't know, it feels like being the guy that sells me parts is what pays off.
If I had known better the final cost of all this then I would have bought a custom built crate engine. Thought I was being more thrifty doing this myself, but nope.
Then again, if something went wrong with the crate engine then they'd say ship it back and that's a terrible hassle too. At least I can work on this one at home without voiding a warranty.
yea one thing I learned is that you always go over budget when piecing stuff together vs crate motors from texas speed or Thompson
especially when you want the best lol never ending cycle
good point on warranty but then again your on your couch watching tv and not worrying about it lol got to pick which of the evils you like
to drink lol but those companies have very good track records and people putting more power down than they should and still hold up lol
I noticed the front of the car was sitting higher after this engine swap. Basically the change is limited to,
* iron block LS --> aluminum block LS
* removal of all AC components
Going on memory here but I think the car weighed more than 3500 pounds before. I've lost the weigh sheet after putting it somewhere for safe keeping. Way too safe apparently.
The official tally this time is 3340 pounds with the fuel tank filled to the brim. That's a big change!
That's actually a fairly good number considering the car is a pig with a full interior, heavy power leather seats, 6-point cage, inner & outer subframe connectors, heavy torque arm and steel driveshaft, T56 with a massive steel Quicktime housing, 12 bolt axle, larger wheels & tires & brakes. The list goes on.
That's a lot of extra weight packed in from the stock base model V6/T5 config! I literally have not paid attention to weight until this point and it makes me wonder what would happen if I did....
I noticed the front of the car was sitting higher after this engine swap. Basically the change is limited to,
* iron block LS --> aluminum block LS
* removal of all AC components
Going on memory here but I think the car weighed more than 3500 pounds before. I've lost the weigh sheet after putting it somewhere for safe keeping. Way too safe apparently.
The official tally this time is 3340 pounds with the fuel tank filled to the brim. That's a big change!
That's actually a fairly good number considering the car is a pig with a full interior, heavy power leather seats, 6-point cage, inner & outer subframe connectors, heavy torque arm and steel driveshaft, T56 with a massive steel Quicktime housing, 12 bolt axle, larger wheels & tires & brakes. The list goes on.
That's a lot of extra weight packed in from the stock base model V6/T5 config! I literally have not paid attention to weight until this point and it makes me wonder what would happen if I did....
I bought a set of scales and now I'm addicted to weighing everything lol. It's fun though knowing.
Really though, what are you going to do differently if you're also not going to repurpose the car? You want the power seats and other creature comforts. You need the SFCs and cage (although not necessarily both styles of SFCs). If you take away the cruiser aspect and make it a race car, there's still easy weight to shed.
But at 3300 lbs, you're doing ok. What does the driver weigh and is he included in the weight? The 86 IROC came in at 3750 with an all iron SBC and 700R4. The rest more or less in stock trim (no AC) The Sport Coupe with same drivetrain, Spohn SFCs and a glass hood comes in at 3550. That includes a full tank of fuel and a 200 lb driver.
I spent $600 in parts to swap out lifters on passenger side and the tapping noise is still there. My only idea left is to change out the o-ring for the oil pump pick up tube. So I took the day off from work today to tackle that job and I was met with a massive fuel leak. Well, I'm sure as heck not spending my day laying on a gasoline soaked floor so that's it for today.
I've about had it with this car. I could buy a new car that's better in every way and not have to deal with all this crap!
I've about had it with this car. I could buy a new car that's better in every way and not have to deal with all this crap!
I can relate. As my hot rodding friend has said many times, "It's always something."
I just try to keep it in perspective and I repeat my little mantra, It's just a hobby.
I've been down the lifter path too and it can get incredibly frustrating when the time and effort doesn't yield the results expected (or at least hoped for). In fact I'm at a crossroads now with an undetermined engine engine noise as well as debris in the oil pan. Everything is on hold and the car is undoubtedly going into storage until this time next year.
As for you sir, take a breath. Someone here said all the hard work pays off. You'll have something unique, built by hand and will be a match performance wise to just about anything rolling off the showroom floor.
Good luck.
Thus ends the pep talk for today.
I've never heard piston slap so I don't know what it is supposed to sound like. But I think that's a cold running engine sound and then it goes away when the engine warms up, right?
This noise is quiet when cold and comes on when the oil gets hot. Seems like it's related to parts growth or oil viscosity.
I read about some cases at ls1tech where people have what sounds like a lifter tapping noise if the o-ring seal is letting air into the oil galleys.
I'm quickly running out of ideas. It's getting close to engine being pulled out.
I remember a conversation in this thread about piston to head clearance and how it related to piston rock. What did you eventually end up with for that gap?
As for piston slap, my experience has been that it's more of a "clack" or "clunk" rather than a "tick". The original ZZ SBC had that issue and so does my current daily driver (03 Tahoe). Both engines are quiet when at operating temps.
I've about had it with this car. I could buy a new car that's better in every way and not have to deal with all this crap!
No pain, no gain, right! I feel your pain... my current 88 Camaro project car i am putting the RAMJET 350 in i was all ready to go thinking i would be firing it up last Sunday after church. Got it pretty much ready, filled with water saturday afternoon and then noticed a puddle on the floor in the evening as i was cleaning up... long story short is intake gasket leaking as i out thought myself wanting to go with a really good gasket, but the fast burn head water port isn't exactly a vortec so ended up with a instant weep / leak on the passenger side... "luckily" i have torn enough engines apart, sunday i had it back a part and today got the intake back on... it is always something, but it keeps it interesting, sometimes too interesting!
Some of you guys sound like you make your own problems..lol
But if it runs good has oil pressure and every think seams ok run the **** out of it! Its a modded car! They make noise. If its not broke its fine
Dont put all this time and effort into it and not use it.. I'm almost a 8.0 car with a stock block! I never thought I could get there. Dont be afraid to enjoy it
Misaligned oil pick-up tube and cut O-ring are common problems with the LS motors causing oil starvation. Improved Racing makes an oil pick-up tube girdle that utilizes the second bolt hole that all LS motors have, it effectively clamps the pick-up tube down much like the SBC distributor hold down. Very easy to install once the oil pan is removed. It might be something to look into.
I took the pan off and found the pickup tube cocked. I've had two of those Holley pick up tubes and both were like this. I guess I've got to make it want to fit instead of just forcing it to fit. So this time I cut the tube and tack welded it where it should be. I'll get a shop to lay a nice weld all the way around. I thought pulling a cylinder head in the car was a pain in the tooshie but I do stand corrected --- pulling an oil pan in the car is a royal pain in the tooshie.
After 27 years I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering selling everything. The car, all the extra parts, the other LS 427 engine, the trailer.... everything. I've gotten tired of old cars and maybe it is time for somebody with more passion to own it.
I took the pan off and found the pickup tube cocked. I've had two of those Holley pick up tubes and both were like this. I guess I've got to make it want to fit instead of just forcing it to fit. So this time I cut the tube and tack welded it where it should be. I'll get a shop to lay a nice weld all the way around. I thought pulling a cylinder head in the car was a pain in the tooshie but I do stand corrected --- pulling an oil pan in the car is a royal pain in the tooshie.
After 27 years I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering selling everything. The car, all the extra parts, the other LS 427 engine, the trailer.... everything. I've gotten tired of old cars and maybe it is time for somebody with more passion to own it.
Take a tip from me: after you have that tube welded, have it pressure checked. Even the tiniest pin-hole leak will cause all kinds of weird oil pressure issues.
I remember back when I was running big-block Fords, there was some kid with more money than brains on 460ford.com who hacked up a pickup tube and booger-welded it together, and had all kinds of problems.
The biggest problem of all was that HE WOULDN'T LISTEN TO ANYONE'S ADVICE TO HAVE THE TUBE PRESSURE CHECKED.
I think he tore the engine down a couple of times, certain that the problem must be something else, DEFINITELY NOT HIS WELDING.
I wonder what ever happened to that guy...
I've about had it with this car. I could buy a new car that's better in every way and not have to deal with all this crap!
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
After 27 years I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering selling everything. The car, all the extra parts, the other LS 427 engine, the trailer.... everything. I've gotten tired of old cars and maybe it is time for somebody with more passion to own it.
Considering getting back in after liquidating, what then would be your performance goals and price point?
I like the newest Camaro on a lot of levels as an example.Or maybe the hottest Cadillac going?
I been in your shoes and I did end up selling both Camaros and took a break couple years
and thought about newer Camaro and corvette as next fun car but in back of my head
I'm like but I just love the thirdgens and found myself always looking for another one
even tho the past love hate relationship and I agree that we create our own problems
and what every little detail perfect and or the best of the best which leads to headaches
looking back now I would of simplified a lot of things and if it isn't broke oil pressure good just run it
vs trying to do anything and everything so you can just enjoy the car and drive it
and eventually I'm back in another thirdgen after couple year break and its just something about
building something your own vs newer muscle car stuff we get the most satisfaction from
Only route ill go would be 4 Door manual SS or the CTS-V
back seat on Camaro is none existent and corvette is nice too
but just take a break from your baby and then go back into It
simplify the process and run it if all things are green light
but I did regret selling the thirdgens I had despite the pain older cars can be
and should of just took a break instead
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I took the pan off and found the pickup tube cocked. I've had two of those Holley pick up tubes and both were like this. I guess I've got to make it want to fit instead of just forcing it to fit. So this time I cut the tube and tack welded it where it should be. I'll get a shop to lay a nice weld all the way around. I thought pulling a cylinder head in the car was a pain in the tooshie but I do stand corrected --- pulling an oil pan in the car is a royal pain in the tooshie.
After 27 years I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering selling everything. The car, all the extra parts, the other LS 427 engine, the trailer.... everything. I've gotten tired of old cars and maybe it is time for somebody with more passion to own it.
Last edited by Zach/90\irocZ; 05-21-2019 at 02:57 PM.
Take a break and watch some Roadkill on YouTube... There is one where they destroy a thirdgen but the rest are good.
Friends G8 ticks like crazy but runs strong... He thinks his piston/valve clearance is too tight... But who knows.
Yea I like road kill and also hoonigan has one that they install like fan blowers to engine
to increase power lol actually pretty funny lol
come to think about it from cars I heard run any cammed lsx engine does tick more then with stock cam
and mines tick as well and my understanding is a normal thing when it comes to
valvetrain upgrades because it reminded me of the same tick that I hear from GM
direct injection cars that bothered me but got used to it
Last edited by Zach/90\irocZ; 05-21-2019 at 03:01 PM.
Can't just run it, guys. The video doesn't do it justice. It is waaaaaay worse in real life, especially while driving. It has to be dealt with.
I'll get back to it this weekend and fit up a new pickup tube. Also going to pull the baffle and check that the crank scraper isn't rubbing.
If anybody has other ideas while the oil pan is off let me know. I had to disassemble the whole front end of the car to get the pan off so I don't want to have to dig into it again.
my holley pickup tube had a 2 bolt flange to hold it in place. was yours like this or did it just have the single bolt? if it was the single bolt design, i'd pick up a girdle like soloc4 suggested. cheap insurance at this point and helps keep the tube properly aligned when torquing down so the oring doesn't get pinched.
i think you covered the sources of most common tick issues, so no real more suggestions there. other than breaking down and taking it to a true LS shop to diagnose.
I third the pickup girdle. I bought mine from BPR hotrods which spans the whole flange and presses evenly on it. It helped me get that "ah it is set perfect" positive feel. Also, which O-Ring are you using? If I recall, there are different O-Rings when using Melling pumps (assuming that's what your running). I want to say I ended up going with a thicker black O-ring than the standard GM green one. I test fit it first.
Last edited by ShiftyCapone; 05-22-2019 at 08:48 AM.
04-21-2019, 10:39 PM
I think it's either the clutch or an exhaust leak. Betting on exhaust leak at the moment.
But I'm far from being a good wrencher and sometimes it can get frustrating & challenging for me. And I'm so freakin' slooooooow at getting things done! 
