WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

I'm a bit stumped on a problem that I'm having. My car idles fine... maybe a tad too high, but its fairly smooth. I took it for ride today and it feels like it has no power. I would almost compare it to my Hyundai Sonata. It will pick up speed, but its totally gutless. When I got back, I popped the hood and noticed something. The header on the passenger side was darker and pretty hot, the drivers side was much much cooler. After letting it cool down for a bit, I ran it again for a minute. When I shut it off, I could almost place my hand on the drivers side header. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

Do you have a NNOID LIGHT you can get one from most autoparts places this is used to check injector pulse. Did you check your fuse box to be sure the fuse is good?
So you have dual cats possibly one is clogged?
Swap the injectors from one.side to the other.. while you are at it check your fuel pressure

89rs454

vacuum leaks could be the culprit, do you have a carb or injection? could be lean mixture which makes engines run hot. Have you checked your plugs? They can tell a story about whats going on in the engine.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Fuel injectors are new from South Bay. Sparks plugs are new as of today. The ones on the passenger side looked great. The ones on the drivers side were really dark and looked fouled. After new plugs, it ran better, but its still down on power. Are there common places for vacuum leaks on this engine? I'm debating getting a block off plate for the egr cable as well, since I don't have the proper headers to use it, and it would eliminate another possibility.

Also, only have one 3" aftermarket cat, and I tested fuel pressure today. About 40 at idle and it shot up a bit when I removed the vacuum line.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Just a thought.... couldn't a bad intake gasket cause all of my issues?

89rs454

Vacuum leak yes it could. Fire her up and spray some carb cleaner in the suspect places and listen for a surge idle.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

check for power to the bank that is too cool, unless both sides are all fed by the same power source. there is something specific about that side. Are you running 93 setup/ bank fire or the later sequential fire?

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

93 bank fire..... it has power. Like I was saying, it idles just fine, so it wouldn't be if half of the injectors weren't working. Thanks for the suggestion though.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

since that it is bank fire, also check the signal wire going back to the pcm. No problem with giving some direction. The noid light would help you a lot to see if there is anything happening with the injectors or not.

89rs454

If it idles well whats the odds of it being fuel?

89rs454

How often do you drive your car and when did this happen, it will help me figure this out. diablizzard it could very well be fuel i didn't mean it like that. But i would put my finger on a vacuum leak.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Its a project car.... its been like this for a while. It has a new opti since my water pump killed the last one. New fuel injectors, plugs and wires. It has been sitting for a while. Gas is fresh, a few months ago, I put in 5the gals of 93, Saturday I put in 5 gal of 89. It does idle a new bit high, so I'm thinking a vacuum leak as well. I just replaced a bunch of the hoses. It did help some, but it doesn't explain why the drivers side header doesn't heat up.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

It's all good. I'm just looking at what I was thinking is related. I guess I am assuming that the intake gaskets are intalled correctly. Maybe if one of the gaskets moved when the intake was installed? I know they have the locator pieces. The idles fine but high escaped me. That would point to a leak on the speed density setup. Enjoy the chase.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate the help... I didn't do any work to the intake, but it was just a guess, judging from the color of the rtv, it was replaced before. I swore I read something about the egr vavle causing intake gasket failures years ago, but maybe its just something I think I saw....

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I just ordered an OBD I USB cable... I'm a network engineer by trade, so maybe looking at what the PCM sees will give me some insight to what is going on...

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Clogged exhaust ??

Possible that the passenger side headers is "closer" to the blockage causing it to heat up faster than the drivers side. Your description sure sounds like a classic symptom of a clogged exhuast. Might not be fully clogged - but even a partial blockage is a bad thing !

See if it drives OK on a flat surface,...... then try to take it up a large hill.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

New headers, new cat, new catback.....

Tinbender59

when you turn on your ign switch, just before starting the motor, does the Check engine light come on? I had one that would not run right but never threw a code, then someone reminded me about the light "should be on, at key on, no run", that is when I found out someone had removed the bloody light. start there, being a 93 you should be able to jumper the ALDL and get the ol' flashing light codes. let us know, start simple then get to dificult as you progress.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure it does. I just checked the tracking on my odb cable, it should be here today. Hopefully that will shed some light in all of this.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I just got done doing some data collection. Looks like the driver's side Oxygen Sensor is bad. Even though that's the bad side, I don't think that can be the cause since it's still in open loop, it wouldn't be using the sensor anyway. At this point, since it is bad, I'm probably going to replace both with heated O2's anyway. Is there anything else I should be looking at? Judging from my IAC counts it does not look like I have a vacuum leak at all.

89rs454

How many miles is on the opti?

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Less then 30I lol..... refer to the top when the waterpump puked all over the old one.

Tinbender59

any progress?

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

nope.... Found that the EGR valve was only being held on by one bolt, so that got my hopes up. I put on a block of plate while I was at out. It lowered my IAC count, but still has no power, and the drivers side headers are still cold enough to grab on it, even after a 3 mile right. Also just put in heated O2's, although it never went into closed loop. I have a datamaster log if anyone wants to take a look.

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

Any mods to the motor? Did you drive the car with the old opti on the car? Are you sure you hooked the spark plug wires up properly on the opti? I know its a dumb question but I have seen people just go 1, 3, 5, 7 and 2, 4, 6, 8 when in reality it is:

drivers side from top to bottom: 5,3,7,1
pass. side from top to bottom : 4,6,8,2.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Headers are the only mods. Brand new opti, water pump took the old one out. The funny thing is that it idles fine... sounds strong... No misses... All wires are on correctly, triple checked. I followed the numbers imprinted on the opti itself. The spark plugs on the drivers side were all fouled... so it appears to be running super rich on that side.

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

Has the motor ever ran correctly since you have had it? If not did it sit for a while before you used it. Have you done a leakdown test on the motor? Maybe there is something wrong with the head or valves. I adjusted the valves too tight on a LT1 I put together and it would foul the plugs upon startup. I loosened the valves and everything was good to go. Just throwing things out there for you to try. Hope it helps.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Going to actually check the valve lash next.

Tinbender59

ok I just read the whole thread again. here is what we need, what is the history on the car; did you purchase it this way, or did it run then go south on you, what have you done to the car - everything!! A Big question - what brand of fuel filter have you ran and are running; I had a Grand prix, changed to a Fram filter, 8 weeks later I lost 3 cylinders, did not put it together until I had the motor out and changing the fuel rails to the new motor - all of the injectors had rust flakes in the screens. The filter had ruptured and let all of the ***** get through. anyway lets start at the beginning.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I've had the car for over 10 years. It had a 2.8. The transmission was going, so instead of replacing it, I purchased a used lt1. The fuel filter is a generic carb online filter placed before the online pump. This has been an ongoing project, so the car hasn't been on the road legally for years. I remember the header getting hot before, but I can't remember how long ago.

Tinbender59

well my first thought is Injectors, the fuel we have today is 40% propane with chemicals to keep it in the liquid fuel. As it gets old the "good stuff leaches out" and leaves the lacquer, and other asorted *****, that will clog, and plug your injectors. The injectors may flow enough to Idle, but lack enough flow to carry the motor at speed. Pull the injectors, get with FIC on Ebay "Fuel Injector Connection" either send them in or purchase a cleaned , balenced set. I picked up a set of 27# for under $200. you could send yours in first to get tested. that shouldn't be too pricy?

Tinbender59

FIC' phone # 770-888-1449 I have purchased 3 sets of injectors from them, they Be good Folk.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Injectors are new, less than 2 months old from South Bay Fuel injectors.

Tinbender59

ok next, do you know how to ohm out components?, if so ohm out all of the injectors Individually, then ohm out the wiring harness; but when doing this do not have any injectors connected, then reverse your leads on the harness. we are looking at the injector drive transistors forward and reverse Bias, also check from the ECU to injector lines to ground (usually Green on one side and Blue on the other) and then reverse the leads here as well, write all of the readings down and post them PLease?

Tinbender59

if your meter has a diode check function, use it for the transistor tests. That will give me an actual voltage reading.

89rs454

Maybe the computer ecm/wiring harness is wore out? Something is definitely wrong, look into it more. It would drive me nuts if my car started doing this.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Wont be able to do that until the week end, but I'll post when the its done.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

I think if the computer was bad, then it wouldnt even fire or idle correctly, but could be a bad wire or even a sensor. It could be fuel related but valve lash sounds more likely. If the cylinder is pre-detonating on one side that would cause a cold header for sure, so it could be loss of compression. Maybe do a compression check before you tear into the valvetrain. Just a thought, keep us posted!

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Datamaster did show quite a few knocks, but I'm not sure if it is legit or not. I did a log with datamaster if anyone want to look at it. PM me your email, since it's slightly over a meg and I can't post it up here.

Upon further review, it showed 468 knocks as soon as it started, and stayed at the number. It probably isn't correct.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

um..... what is the fuel pressure? at idle and while the car is acting up.
is the opti installed properly? it will have a splined shaft on yours, but there is a flat spot on it that needs to be indexed properly. i cant remember if its possible to install it incorrectly by shoving it on there with the flat spot in the wrong location. that could turn a header red since the timing would be off.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Fuel pressure was fine when I tested it, the exact pressures are higher up in the thread. Opti is installed correctly. I didn't force the opti in, I waiting until it slipped in. Idles great. Also, the header isn't getting too hot, the header is actually too cold. Like going for a 10 minute ride, and I can still wrap my hand around the primary - cold. I did notice that the exhaust pops on a hard decelliration, but I just chalked this up to the exhaust running rich and burning up in the cat.

Tinbender59

if you are lean on one bank you WILL get a lot of knock action, that is the nature of a lean out. and would cause a backfire in the tail pipe. it just sounds like a driver transistor failing under heavy load, can you get your hands on a different PCM? maybe try that straight up first???

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I'm not against the thought. I'll check out ebay later... I'd really love to do the 24x conversion at some point, but I'm torn if I would be thorwing good money after bad. In any case, before I spend the big money on that, I'm getting a generator first. I'm not going with 3 days without power ever again.

I'll look at the auctions, and if I can get one for under $100, I'll grab it.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

in my previous post, i was curius as to the fuel pressure staying at 40 while driving, not just at idle. but i am thinking since its a good solid 40 at idle it shouldnt fall too much.
if you have a cold header primary after 10 min of driving, that cylinder either has no fuel, no spark, or no compression.

check for spark. if you have that, you could try removing the fuel rail, lay it in a clean drain pan and crank it over to see if that injector is spraying fuel. if it is, do a cranking compression test on that cylinder.

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I don't think I can take them out of the intake and pressurize the system. These injectiors do not have the clips that hold them to the fuel rail. They look like this: http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...502&group=1497

Its also the whole side that is cold, but like I was saying, it idles great... I'm wondering if the PCM is failing or not...

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

Could there be a clog in the fuel rail?

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

I do have a spare rail on hand... I'll add that to the list.

Tinbender59

good call,

WhiteBlaze

iTrader: (1)

Ok, now we are getting somewhere! All fuel injectors ohmed out at about 13.7, with two at 14.0. Both of the high ones were on the good side. Here is where things get interesting. I ohmed out the actual connectors with the engine off. The passenger side (good side) was at 35.77k ohms. The drivers side showed infinite resistance... hmmmm.... next, turned the ignition on. Passenger side was at 11.5 volts, drivers is at 9.5.... will be checking the wiring now. Will update when I have more.

89rs454

Interesting. Wires may be pinched/broke hanging on by a thread.