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The weather man did not lie. It was raining when we left, and rained on the way home. About 8 of us, out of 40 or so members that showed up, brought our old cars. She'll need a good detail, but no leaks in the t-tops, and the a/c - defroster and rear window defogger all worked. The warmer fall has delayed our colors some too. But we had a nice club gathering. An easy drive out into the country to a family owned apple orchard and cider mill. Catered lunch of broasted chicken, spare ribs, several sides and corn bread. Lots of apple cider and donuts too.
But, into every life a little rain must fall. And I don't mean the wet stuff from the sky.
As happened 3 years ago (3 years ago? Wow time flies)...
...a minor failure may spell the end to our cruising season. As I went to put the folding chairs away in the back of the T/A at the cider mill, the rear hatch motor failed. Just won't rise up when the hatch is opened, either by key or button on the dash. Drove home with it strapped down inside. Thanks God I brought that bag of travel supplies, which includes an old snow mobile tie down strap. I don't usually carry that in the car.
So I guess among the other winter projects I wanted to get to, I will have to add a hatch motor repair to the list. I must admit, I'm NOT looking forward to it.
One by one, my car is suffering all of the stereotypical 3rd gen failures. It had a headlamp motor done before I bought it, broken fog lamp, failed power antennae, t-top drip rail pulling out, now this. But this is part of the fun of owning older cars, right?
Some of the same ailments over here as well. Replaced the hatch motor and guides but it seems like the reversing switch is now dead as well sighhhh. My headlight motors work but the bushings inside are toast so I ordered up the kit from TDS.
Plan on taking my time this winter and fixing all the silly little stuff.
Yes, I'll have to dig through some threads here and see if I can diagnose exactly what is wrong. I'm thinking a switch of some sort, is it is just flat dead. It won't raise up when released. The motor is not running, so I'm not thinking stripped gears. Time will tell. I'll be contacting Lon for help with parts for sure.
Pretty nice weather this weekend. Snuck out to the garage and fired the car up for the first time in many months. Battery tender disconnected, key on to prime the fuel, and she started right up. Nice weather here today and tomorrow too. But winter still has a few cold days left yet I'm sure. Still, Ill be able to start working on her again soon, which makes me happy.
If your hatch motor is on strike, try fiddling the reverse switch lever into its end position with a long screwdriver or some kind of extension socket.
Mine usually quits once the weather gets cold and misty outside... and then when I absolutely don't need it doing that.
Might be worth a try.
I'll be honest. I read (vaguely) about these for years, but never paid much attention. Now I'll get an education. I'm hoping in a few more weeks the weather will start to warm enough that I can begin working on it.
We finally have some signs of spring here in Michigan. Will be working on the old T/A soon I hope.
Today is the 4 year anniversary of our purchase of the Trans Am. It's funny, because in some ways it seems like we just got it, in others like it's always been there.
My oldest brother, the one with the Porsche 914, found a small canopy (or easy-up) at Walmart the other day. He's always had 10x10s, but carrying one of those in a 914 meant that the passenger had to hold it in a bear hug in the passenger seat. Not very fun to say the least. This smaller 6x4 will fit in his trunk very nicely. While it doesn't provide a ton of shade, it sure beats the alternative for ease of transport.
And while I could shoehorn a 10x10 into the rear seat, I knew I'd be bumping it off the trim, seats, etc. So as an anniversary gift, I bought one for the T/A too (and a sun shade).
Good buy. I gota pretty good sunburn at a show earlier this month when my friend who usually brings us a tent in his GTO didn't show up. We already getting 80+temps.
As usual, life is getting in the way of me doing the things I want to do. Like fixing the hatch pull-down on the Trans Am.
Finally had an hour with my son helping to get the trim off and see what we have in there. I do have a spare, jack, etc. So that's nice. I'd never looked!
No nasty surprises. So again, that's nice.
No plastic housing in this model year, I guess?
I've read back through 4 threads on these things that I've bookmarked over the years. In one, Lon made reference to this wire (I believe), and it is not used in this year, if I'm understanding things properly.
The plastic housing was a late 91-92 model year change I thought? I believe there was some incremental changes through the years that they produced them. No surprises are the best surprises when dealing with any older car.
The housing for the motor and gear, threaded rod that drives the latch up and down, is plastic. That's where these light to fail, because people slam the hatch and the plastic cracks. Not easy to see from the top side. It's on the bottom/back side.
Out of 8,794 units of 1988 Trans Ams, only 611 Trans Ams had the 81P wheels.
Thanks shiftman. I like them too. When I very first looked at the car, I was a tiny bit disappointed that they were not gold. But they grew on me pretty quickly. I had not heard production numbers before. Where were you able to look that up? They do seem rare.
Originally Posted by Drew
The housing for the motor and gear, threaded rod that drives the latch up and down, is plastic. That's where these light to fail, because people slam the hatch and the plastic cracks. Not easy to see from the top side. It's on the bottom/back side.
Thanks Drew. I was able to talk to Lon about it, and he said some of the same things. I have some info to go through this weekend (maybe). It sort of acts like a reversing switch. But at 30+ years old, I'm tempted to do a lot of preventive repairs while I'm in there (guides, nut, maybe housing).
I'm chasing parts out of state on Saturday. Supposed to go to Eyes on Design on Sunday, but the 90+ degree temps may keep me at home.
Thanks shiftman. I like them too. When I very first looked at the car, I was a tiny bit disappointed that they were not gold. But they grew on me pretty quickly. I had not heard production numbers before. Where were you able to look that up? They do seem rare.
Thanks Drew. I was able to talk to Lon about it, and he said some of the same things. I have some info to go through this weekend (maybe). It sort of acts like a reversing switch. But at 30+ years old, I'm tempted to do a lot of preventive repairs while I'm in there (guides, nut, maybe housing).
I'm chasing parts out of state on Saturday. Supposed to go to Eyes on Design on Sunday, but the 90+ degree temps may keep me at home.
Well I'd take you up on that if I was closer. Thanks for the offer. Three decades of owners before me have figured these things out. It's just my turn.
Finally have a week off to get a few chores done, and hurt my back. Didn't want to see the Dr., but after having to crawl on all 4s to get across the living room because I could not stand up, I thought it was time. Several days on 2 prescriptions, and I feel like an (old) human again.
Didn't want to press my luck working hunched over the car, but I did take some time today to get the unit out of the car. Will try to dissect it tomorrow.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-02-2018 at 08:12 PM.
Looking it over prior to disassembly, nothing obvious is wrong. All seems tight and secure. The guides feel tight between the two pieces. One fell of in this picture.
But when you start looking closer, there are a lot of guide shavings here and there. An awful lot for a car with 57k miles.
Checking all the places those black screws attach the plastic gear housing to the steel frame...I see NO cracks in the plastic.
That all looks good. From what I've read, the sign of a bad gear nut is a motor that won't stop running. I didn't have that. So I'm left with a bit of a mystery. All I've found are some plastic shavings. Taking another look at the guides...
...clearly one is damaged. Breaking apart really. And a couple of the others have some stress cracks in them. So I'll need guides for sure.
I've seen guides in worse shape, but yes they can be replaced. I don't see a picture of the gear nut. My TDS 101170 AFTERMARKET GUIDES will solve the problem. They come with a 4 pg instructions on how to rebuild your 86-87 & 88-91 style pull-down unit. While you have it apart I'd also replace the gear nut.
Thanks Lon. Since it did not exhibit the bad gear nut behavior of running without stopping, I didn't tear it down that far for inspection. But if you recommend it, I'll do that too.
Sorry, I misread. I thought you did mention it had that symptom. So the gear nut should be fine. However it is a plastic wear item and it would make sense to disassemble, inspect it and lubricate it while you are servicing the pull-down unit. White lithium has the same buttery consistency as the original grease used. I have switched to a synthetic marine grease since it has less tendency to evaporate and dry out with age.
It's down to 81* in the garage, so time to get some work done.
Before further disassembly, I thought I'd try to take some sort of measurement as to where the gear nut was sitting.
So I grabbed the dial caliper and measured this dimension.
Looks like a perfect .250".
And now apart. Definitely bag and tag these screw. 6 fasteners, 3 different types, 3 different lengths.
Time to pull the lone Phillips head screw that holds the reversing switch on. If I was not working under a bright desk lamp on my bench, I would not have seen this crack in the housing...the only crack I've found. I would not have noticed it, and thought it was just glare, except just as I started to back the screw out, the crack closed up, and the visible line went away.
With the switch out of the way, the last 2 screws come out.
And apart she comes. Whatever this grease is that GM used, it's good stuff. 30 years old, and not one bit of it dried up. Still as soft and slippery as the day it went in.
Another angle. No smoking gun here.
A closer look at the gear nut. Looks good.
Cleaned up with a little WD40. Not signed of damage or cracks. But in for a penny, in for a pound. I'm buying a housing and slides, might as well get a new nut too.
Did some electrical testing with the switch. Send those results along to Lon. I'll call him tomorrow and get the new parts on the way.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-05-2018 at 09:43 PM.
OK, I have all 4 Kicker speaker installed in my daughters Saturn. Wait, wrong forum.
Sadly, the bird has to compete for my time. Had just a few minutes tonight. Went through all the parts Lon shipped to me, and to keep the old grease out of the new grease, I cleaned all of the parts up that will be reused.
And a quick electrical test of the motor...smooth as silk. Cleaned up the worm gear, and we're ready to start reassembly. Tomorrow.
No need to measure the height of the lift rod. As it says in the instructions that come with the guides install the gear nut with roughly 7.5 rotations. This positions the lift rod in a mid-stroke position that makes it easy to install the reversing switch. The lever on the reversing switch should be in the down position. The stroke of the pull down unit is entirely controlled by the reversing switch. In either the up or down cycle the striker-sensing switch starts the cycle. The reversing switch ends the cycle.
Remember to fit the guides to the track as I described in my email. They must be an easy sliding fit. Sand them to fit as needed.
Lon
Thanks Lon. I was cleaning the tracks up while on the phone with my brother this evening. Then read through the instructions about the Os and Is. Hope to get it assembled tomorrow night.
Tough to find even a few minutes in the garage the last week.
I did get the motor bolted up.
As described in the instructions, the guides are a little snug. Will play with some different combos, and resort to saanding-to-fit if required, per the instructions.
OK, the original guides were too tight, and I just wasn't sure about sanding that much material off. So Lon graciously sent me another set.
They were tight too, but I now had 4 of the thinner "I" guides.
Time to break out the belt sander.
The coarse belt left the guides pretty rough. A little finish smoothing with a file did the trick.
It took several passes to get them right. My tracks seem to be particularly narrow. Also took a hair off the top of one of the guides. By the time I was done, one of the grooves had broken through the face, and the others were tissue thin. A quick call to Lon confirmed that this was A-OK, so I cut the others out too. Didn't want them breaking loose later and gumming up the works.
A test fit was good, so I greased everything up, and she's back together, slicker than snot on a door ****.
Dropped the pin and nut in, and we're good to go.
Installed and working well. Time for a bath, and a shake down cruise on Woodward.
Thanks again to Lon for the parts,and the great support.
Took the T/A out to Woodward tonight with my son, as he heads back to his university on Wednesday.
Hopped in the car, dome light very dim, pump primed, but would not turn the engine over. First time that has happened.
With a little boost from a jumper pack, she's up and running. I double checked that I could hear the second "click" when the hatch motor reached the end of it's travel. I could. So that means it's off, and not draining the battery (I think). I wanted to check it first, as it was the most recent thing worked on. Sub, off. Cooling fan for amp, off. Power antennae, off as far as I can tell (can't hear it running). The AC Delco battery is the one that was in the car when I bought it 4.5 years ago, and is probably a few years older than that. So it may be on it's last legs.
The car restarted without hesitation during several stops on Woodward. I have the battery back on it's trickle charger now. I'll have to pull it and have it tested soon.
Car ran well. Just before arriving home, she got a bottle of injector cleaner, and a tank of 90 octane pure gas.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 08-12-2018 at 10:25 PM.
Just in case that pulldown motor doesn't click and then doesn't move, no matter what you do with the key, have a long rod handy to be able to reach down to the reversing switch and give it a slight knock.
That'll save you some time, not having to remove all the trim.
If you have an amp meter or multimeter, you can check the amperage with the car off, by disconnecting the neg cable from your battery and then measuring amps between the terminal and the cable.
It'll go down after a few seconds. In case it doesn't and looks too high, you can pull fuses one by one and maybe close in on the culprit.
If you have an amp meter or multimeter, you can check the amperage with the car off, by disconnecting the neg cable from your battery and then measuring amps between the terminal and the cable.
It'll go down after a few seconds. In case it doesn't and looks too high, you can pull fuses one by one and maybe close in on the culprit.
Make sure your hatch courtesy light isn't accidentally left on. I inadvertently left mine switched on when I changed my pull down motor and it killed the battery deader than a door **** after a few days. I had to put a new $110 battery in a car I'd already sold and was waiting for pick up.
Thanks guys. I have yet to NOT hear the second click at the bottom of it's travel. But I'm a little more attune to it now. And I did check that cargo area lamp...was one of the first things I thought of. But thanks for both suggestions guys.
Was supposed to be in the office today, but went out first thing, and the van wouldn't start. So she got a new starter today, then spent the afternoon finishing a few last repairs on my sons truck before he heads back to school. Had just enough time to get cleaned up, and head out to Woodward in the T/A with the family. Headed to my favorite diner for a bite to eat. It is definitely getting busy out there.
Made one lap from the north loop in Pontiac to Ferndale and back. LOTS of cars out.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 08-16-2018 at 09:17 AM.
Just back from the Frankenmuth Autofest in Frankenmuth, MI. They follow the Good Guys rules for model year, so up to 1987 on Friday and Saturday. The street party Friday night and the show on Super Sunday are open on model year. So the photos are mostly 1st and 2nd gen. a couple of 3rds, one 4th, and some old Pontiacs I liked.
I also saw this at a local mall...looks like an old KITT ride that is still going strong.
10-16-2017, 11:50 AM
