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I wasn't sure what sort of grease cutting cleaner to use on this area. I was almost out of Simple Green, so I grabbed some Fantastic, blue shop towels, q-tips and toothpicks, and started in on it.
After cleaning the first small area with Fantastic, I wasn't comfortable with the amount of "red" that was coming up on the towel. What to you all use? Time for plan B.
I switched to WD40 to attack the grease and wax buildup. Still getting a little bit of red, but not nearly as much. I'm hoping not to ever have to clean this area as aggressively again, just maintain it. So this should be good.
Working pretty well, but time consuming, especially on the latch itself. You couldn't even see that there was a white nylon end to the hood release cable...now it's all clean. And still enough lube for things to work smoothly.
Was a lot of build-up on the back side, too. That is also clean now.
Tensioner, compressor, and pulleys (exc. crank) are now clean(er).
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 06:47 PM.
Reason: Updated with photo links from Flickr
Now to attack that air cleaner lid. I have a long term plan for the air cleaner, but short of a complete refinish, I want to save / improve what's there.
Here's a more overhead photo of the area. Fortunately, this corroded area is somewhat hidden behind the lip on the edge of the lid when in-place on the engine. So the repair doesn't have to be OE quality to hide well under the hood. At least that's what I'm telling myself for now.
That lid fits nicely on a 5 gal. bucket... a perfect work surface. I'm going to attack that rust with some Metal Recue. I've used it on some other items, and as advertised, it will desolve the rust and leave the paint. Normally you would want to submerge the part ,but here again, the topography of the lid works to my advantage.
Putting an old key chain fob under the lid to raise the back slightly, I poured the product right into the groove in the lid. The slope keeps the product concentrated where the rust is, so I don't have to fill the groove, wasting product.
Covered in some plastic wrap to reduce evaporation.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 06:51 PM.
Reason: Updated with photo links from Flickr
That lid will need to soak for 24 hours. I went in and ate dinner, and checked on it's progress on my way back out to the shop. This is after 1 hour.
All of those spots that now appear white? That's clean metal. There were a few before, but many more now. Still more to do, but should be good to go by tomorrow. I hope.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 06:52 PM.
Reason: Updated with photo link from Flickr
Or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Firebird-Formula-Coupe-2-Door-1992-pontiac-firebird-formula-coupe-2-door-5-7-l-/161423164697?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2595920519&item=161423164697&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Last edited by MintWS6FORMULA; 09-17-2014 at 11:07 PM.
Didn't have a ton of time on the car tonight...maybe just an hour or so. Finished the upper parts of the passenger side core support, and the top of the inner fender area. That flash...makes things that aren't too bad look terrible, like the flat black painted items. Also throws light on some remote areas I have no hope of getting in to clean.
Cleaned to the left (front) of the bumper, not to the right (rear) of it, trying with a toothpick to flake off some of the years of built up grease and dirt behind the bumper.
Like most surfaces under the hood, there was a lot more dirt. Washing under the hood has helped some, but not near enough. These hinge areas are particularly hard to get in and clean. They are next.
And the pocket of space below the hinges...
Not a ton more progress on the air cleaner lid. The heaviest rust spots may be a bit smaller today. Will probably drain the Metal Rescue, clean the areas, delicately scrape the areas of heaviest corrosion, and reapply the Metal Rescue. Got to be done by early Sunday AM though, so not much longer to horse with it.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 07:02 PM.
Reason: Updated with photo links from Flickr
A change of plans I think. As of right now, the forecast for today/tomorrow is 80% chance of rain. I don't see me go to a show in that weather.
The lid is cleaning up nicely. This was last night. While the weather was still nice (knowing the weekend was going to be a bust weather-wise), I ran some errands in the T/A, and took the family out for ice cream at a stand that will be closing for the season soon. That meant I needed the air cleaner back on the car.
I poured the Metal Rescue off into a bucket, dried it with a towel, and here's where we are. The light areas of rust are gone. The heavier pitted areas have been reduced in size. I'll try a fresh batch of chemical to see if I can shrink them further. No harm to the paint, as promised.
One of those errands was to pick this up. I'm a sucker for anything factory...manuals, training material, promotional material, advertising, accessories, tools, etc. This little emergency kit, with velcro on the back to keep it from sliding around, and containing a (still sealed) first aid kit, gloves, poncho, shop towels, air transfer hose with accessory fittings, GE flood light, and ice scraper was just too good to pass up.
Also, a large box of goodies from Hawk's was delivered yesterday. A nice new group-buy fiberglass reproduction spoiler, and a new GM foglamp. The UPS Freight driver is the original owner of an '87 Camaro.
Third gens are E V E R Y W H E R E!
So we had a nice talk before he had to head off to his next delivery.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 07:08 PM.
Reason: Updated with photo links from Flickr
Thanks maks10. I had been hunting for a good used one since I bought the car, but never came up with anything, or wasn't sure what they should be worth. I just got a new one in my order from Hawks.
We had an Advance open in a town close by a year or two back. I've only been in there a couple of times, with mixed results, but I'll have to stop and check those lamps out. I'm always up for a low cost spare, as I'm sure it's not the last glass lense I'll break.
Very nice T/A Dave, She was nice to begin with but you are slowly getting her to 100%. Thanks for checking out mine.
I would be curious to know if you find a suitable replacement for the UQ7 subwoofers. My GTA has that system too and like yours they are blown. According to gtasourcepage.com/modelfeatures.html they are 4" subs. I have never seen any sub that tiny so I am left scratching my head.
There's not much in the way of replacement drivers in a 4" size. I've found references to better quality units available in the past, but no longer in production. One of the only ones I've found are these...
...but they are no-name cheapies, and only 2ohm. I don't honestly know what the ohm rating on our factory drivers is. But if it's more than 2, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable using these. I'd hate to burn up the factory amplifier.
Member mantaguy had a place rebuild his. And I think that's what I'm going to have done this winter with mine. I have no experience with either of these companies, but it's who I was going to contact.
I was also looking at a Pontiac Accessory Kit on eBay a couple of weeks ago, but the shipping costs for Germany were too high for me at that time.
Nice find
Thank you NCC-2569. Yours as well. I learned a lot from your t-top thread.
Sadly, winter has arrived in Michigan. I took the car to work last week for one last time out. As I got home, and was pulling it into the garage, the power antenna broke; motor kept running and had to pull the fuse. On top of that, freezing temps have arrived as well. So that sort of ends my cruising season. Took the full insurance off for the winter, so she's done until spring.
You're going to have fun with that antenna. Had to repair the one on the Firebird I used to have.
You can also remove the plastic trim below the map pocket (not the knee bolster. That's too low) and disconnect the antenna relay behind it.
Here's some steps to get the antenna out:
- disconnect antenna lead behind head unit
- remove passenger side kick panel
- turn steering wheel completely to the left (or remove front right tire)
- remove plastic wheel housing
- get thin arms and tiny hands
- remove antenna toward front of fender
There's no need to chop up any cables like other people often do.
You'll need a repair kit (discontinued) or search TGO for the guy who used some nylon grass trimmer wire to replace the broken old wire inside his antenna housing.
Get yourself some bolts and nuts that'll fit in the old stud holes and some sealant to help keep future grime out of the housing.
Not sure how I missed this thread originally, but you have a beautiful TA.
Detailing is addictive-you get so impressed with the results you want to do more!
Love the car, always like to see a clean red TA.
Thanks 86YA355SR. Yeah, it was funny. I thought it looked pretty clean, until I "really" started studying it. Then I realized NOTHING was clean! And once I cleaned one spot, the one next to it looked terrible. There's a LOT to do under that hood.
Originally Posted by NCC-2569
You're going to have fun with that antenna. Had to repair the one on the Firebird I used to have.
I searched and found a few thread on this subject. This one...
...has a lot of info in it, along with the tips you mentioned (Thank you!). Scott Moyer did a lot of digging, and found an AACA (Antique Automobile Club of America) member who rebuilds them using metal cable (plastic coated), and also some members did this repair themselves.
Originally Posted by mantaguy
Sounds like a WINTER PROJECT.
It does, but....my back garage (where the T/A is) is great storage, but at the moment, no electricity or heat. So not a great winter working environment. We'll see how things shake out.
Dave,did you ever call those two web sites you posted above for the Subs??The price they are quoting for the 4 1/2" speakers is a very good price.I paid $130.00 for mine to be re coned.
Dave,did you ever call those two web sites you posted above for the Subs??The price they are quoting for the 4 1/2" speakers is a very good price.I paid $130.00 for mine to be re coned.
No sir, I have not.
Is 4.5" the proper size for our cars? The dirt cheap...
(usually a sign you should RUN when looking at audio equipment)
...4" subs on eBay are awfully tempting to try.
I had a couple of audio improvements in mind, and was going to do them all at once. And I'm still acquiring the pieces to do that.
Yes,they are 4.5"here's the name and no. of the fellow that did mine
Danny's Amp Service,(DAS)
5817 Roosevelt Ave
Pennsauken NJ.08109
856-662-2979
FAX 856-662-2995
Give him a call and see what he says
Or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Firebird-Formula-Coupe-2-Door-1992-pontiac-firebird-formula-coupe-2-door-5-7-l-/161423164697?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2595920519&item=161423164697&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
That red one is exactly the same as my car top to bottom, mine has 156k on it and looks way better.
LOVE LOVE LOVE the red wheels! Did it come like that? Must have been a special order?
Thank you! From what Mantaguy tells me, they (red PW7 wheels) were in the brochure. But in this case, while I have not spoken with the original owner, I do believe this was an ordered car. It appears he sort of built it for touring (no "pro" touring), with lots of options and features, but with the base engine.
The story was the guy worked for GM (not uncommon in this area), and the car is known to have been delivered through Rinke Pontiac in Warren, the nearest Pontiac store to the Tech Center, I believe. I bought a GMC Jimmy there back in '94.
I liked the red wheel s when I first got, but to be honest would have preferred black or gold at that time. Now I wouldn't trade the color for anything.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 07-17-2017 at 07:13 PM.
Nah, everybody has black, gold, silver. Those give your car something no one else has. I have a white 98 Camaro, and have thought of painting the wheels red at times. White cars with red wheels = very cool. Red wheels remind me of those snap together model kits from the early 80's. I don't know your age, remember them? There were Corvettes and there was this Toyota truck that had those red wheels. That's why I like them I think, takes me back to the good ole days. I've always wanted a yellow car with red wheels, or a red car with yellow wheels, and call it the Hot Dog. LOL I don't think it would work with these thirdgens, but would look great on a new Mustang IMO. I have an 07 Stang, but it's silver with black 20's on it.
Last edited by TheExaminer; 01-03-2015 at 08:07 PM.
The weather has finally started to warm here in Michigan. Warm enough to get some work done in my unheated shop.
Time to address that broken power antenna. I've read a few threads here, including the one Luis used to have. It didn't look like too bad of a job, but I wanted to wait for slightly warmer weather to wrestle that plastic inner fender.
That inner fender, and the areas hiding behind it, need a LOT of cleaning.
But while it looked like the Camaro or TTA guys had some workable access with this plastic panel removed, the T/A with it's fender vent...not so much. And of course, the mast is almost all the way up, which is going to make wrestling it even worse. Initial attempts at manually lowering it were not successful, but I'm going to try again, as it would be a LOT easier to get that assembly out of the fender without the mast extended.
That vent, small as it is, really blocks a lot of the access to the power antenna.
Some questions for those who know...
1) Going to need a few new fasteners for that plastic inner fender. Some of them did not survive the removal process. I see some of these for sale on ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221696315390?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
...but I have no idea how these are measured. Any one with any experience at finding proper looking replacement for these, and in the proper size?
2) That plastic inner liner could use a little cleanup. Obviously, cleaners (Simple Green, etc.) will cut some of what washing the car did not. Just curious if anyone has a favorite dressing for this kind of surface? Anything that holds up better to road spray, or is less attractive to dust and grime (less wet or oily) than say an ArmorAll-like product?
3) It's tempting to think in terms of removing that fender vent. But access to is is no better than to the antenna, and it laps under the ground effects quite a bit. So you'd probably have to drop that too. Just curious if folks with fender vents were able to work around them, or if they need to come out.
You know, it's interesting. Those, like the ones posted by NCC-2569, have a Phillips head style cross in the top of them. My originals do not. These are actually threaded if you look at them. Mine just pull out.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 04-04-2015 at 08:40 PM.
I'm not sure what's on mine!I'll have to check and see but that's what the Parts Book is showing for a P/N.
FOR 82-87 and it doesn't list anyP/N at all for 88-92
It's tough to find time to get out to the shop during the week, but I did squeeze in an hour of work last night.
There's a retainer on that harness that's in the way (photo in previous post), that retains it up near the top of the fender. With that disconnected, and the harness swung out of the way, access looks a little bit better.
Following a tip (that I think I read here at TGO), I was able to collapse the mast down quite a bit by twisting it while pressing down on it. It didn't make it all the way down, but it's probably only sticking up 1/2 as far as before. Will still need a large box, and lots of padding to ship it for repair.
I also got some of the interior trim out of the way, and have the 3 wire harness & connector for the motor disconnected from the relay. Most of the antenna cable is removed from under the trim and carpet, and from the radio, but is held by a clip on the top of the tunnel. Looks like I'll have to remove all the trim around the radio to get to that.
Now for a couple of questions about some things I found.
For starters, I'm certainly NOT the first technician to pass this way.
With the cowl side panel trim removed, I found this large round retainer...looks like the type used to hold hood pads in place. It's a "Christmas tree" type, and not driven all the way in...it's sticking out a little, and is loose...spins, wobbles a little bit in the hole...there's no corresponding slot on the back of the trim. What is this used for?
I was able to trace the power antenna wires to the power antenna relay, so I know what component the 3rd arrow (counting left to right) is. But what are the other 3?
Lastly, when I dropped the hush panel from under the dash, these cats came rolling out. The good news? A couple of more rattles gone. But what's the bad news? One still has a piece of a plastic stud on it. Any ideas what these are from?
Oh, and the proper wrench for the nut on the fender arrived today. Good ol' ebay...$8.85 shipped to my door. Cheap insurance, I hope.
The 1st one on the left is the AMP for the UQ7 Sound System,the last one(under the TA emblem is the timer relay for the hatch defrost. I'll have to lookup the 2nd. to left but I'm almost positive that's the VSS Buffer
Those nuts might be from the speaker covers,that's all I can think of that uses them and the speaker is right on top of that area. I haven't the faintest Idea what that plug(fastener) is for.
Hmmm...so maybe someone tried to take the shortcut of pulling the speaker grill out, rather than removing the pad? I'll have to check that out.
There's nothing more (or less?) comical that a fat 50+ year old guy working upside under the dash of an f-body, especially when he can't see up close anymore...and everything is up close!
Hmmm...so maybe someone tried to take the shortcut of pulling the speaker grill out, rather than removing the pad? I'll have to check that out.
There's nothing more (or less?) comical that a fat 50+ year old guy working upside under the dash of an f-body, especially when he can't see up close anymore...and everything is up close!
,I know exactly what you mean!!I'm not fat but old,I get dizzy when I come out from there.I hate going under there!!!
You go to replace an antenna, and you end up with this...
I had made the decision that I would not cut the wires to the antenna, nor try to separate the cable at the antenna. So that meant the harness had to come out with the power antenna assembly. Could have been done with a little less drama, if the factory had not clamped the antenna cable under a folded over metal tab under the HVAC box/ducts on the top of the tunnel. Removing the radio pod got me enough access to shimmy it out. A lot more work than it should have been.
Then it became a "while I'm here, I'll fix "X"" sort of deal. This stray pink wire, about a foot longer than it needs to be, and wound around other harnesses and the HVAC duct foam, was visible with the pod in place. If it was black, I might not have bothered, but pink...it stuck out like a soar thumb. So I untangled it from several harnesses, and tucked it back out of site (I hope).
Then there was this, which I discovered last fall when attempting to install my CD player. Pod damage. Looks like my old friend J.B. and I have some work to do, along with some reinforcing material.
This supplier part sticker dropped out along with the pod, or the I/P trim/switch bank. Hard to know which.
I was able to get the harness out, as well as the power antenna bracket bolt, and the fender nut. The new tool worked very well (padded by a little electrical tape), and was certainly worth waiting for.
Had hoped to have the power antenna removed, boxed, and shipped off for repair today. No such luck. It still won't clear the fender vent and ECM harness/connector. Since the vent is trapped behind the cladding, I'm trying to figure out how to get that connector apart. Thread here. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...something.html
Ebay. I wanted to buy local, but none of the shops I called had anything like it. Fairly universal, so I'll get some other use out of it. And it was less than $9 shipped to my door.
If someone wanted to argue that the folks in Van Nuys, when building a power antenna car, started with the power antenna and built around it, I wouldn't call them a liar.
With some great help from other forum members in my post in the Electronics forum (see link in post 138 above), I was able to disconnect the large, troublesome electrical pass-through.
By disconnecting a clip on the loom under the dash, freeing up a good 6" or so of extra harness length, I was able to pull this bundle out, and out of the way.
With a little help from the vent assembly, pulled loose at the top, but not fully removed...
...and the vent screen removed from the back (it hangs down further than the vent opening, and was just begging to get snagged and broken, so I removed it as a preventive measure), things really started to open up.
I also removed the bracket from the power antenna assembly, but still could not quite get the unit out. The culprit was the mast. The drive tape/ribbon failed with the mast extended 2/3rds of the way up. By twisting it as I pressed down, I was able to get it down to say 1/3 of the way up. But that was still too much to be able to remove the assembly.
Fearing I was going to have to resort to removing the ground effects and fender bottom, I decided to try one last thing. I plugged the motor back in, put the fuse back in at the fuse block, and with the motor running trying to lower the antenna, I was able to push the mast the rest of the way down with little effort! I tried pushing it down with the motor running when it first failed, but it didn't want to go. I guess things shifted around enough inside wrestling with it that it finally worked. Lucky break.
Sure, NOW there's lots of room. Re-installation should go much more smoothly.
Double boxed, addressed, and ready for drop off at the post office on Monday morning.
nice work. Changed mine once and got 6 stitches to boot. lol
Ouch. When we were done, my teenage son asked, "did you scratch your arm getting that out"? Sure enough..a nice 3" long bleeding scratch just above my elbow.
Regarding your hood insulator plug:
My 91 Bird hat a large rubber plug in that place and the power antenna cables went through it.
At least the white and green cables, IIRC.
Was an a$$ getting it out through the hole.
mantaguy: Thanks for confirming that. While I wish it worked with the dome light, I'm glad to find out everything is working as it should.
jrhaus76: Yes, they were available that way. But you don't seem to see them very often...at least I have not. Gold and black appear to have been much more popular. They came in white, too. Not sure about any other body colors. Mantaguy would likely know?
Thanks Van Nuys born. Took a short trip this evening with my wife and daughter up to Culvers for a Flavor of the Day custard. 700 some calories..Yikes! A few more of those and I'll have to trade the T/A for a Bonneville!
Finally...a beautiful spring day. Been waiting for this one for two long weeks. I was finally able to give the old gal a much needed bath in some Meguiar's Gold Class wash. Looks pretty darned nice, if I do say so myself. So nice in fact, that I brought some dining room chairs out to the garage so some friends and I could sit and admire it!
OK, maybe not. Still, I was happy to NOT find too much more in the way of chips or damage that I had not already spotted when buying the car. I'll try to keep her clean, and next weekend maybe hit it with the Meguiar's Clay Bar kit I bought.
Wheels cleaned up nice too.
Got my plate on. Was going to wait for the frame (should be here this week), but I noticed the temp. tag expired today! So I'm glad I caught that. That gave me a chance to take care of this...
...and what you DON'T see in this image...the several layers of sticky/crusty stuff from the prev. owners "For Sale" sign taped in the back window, that had baked on for the last couple of years. Glad to have that mess gone. All of the glass got a couple of cleanings, too.
While working in the back, I was interested in this little light. It does NOT come on with the dome light (doors open), or when the hatch is open. It only comes on when the switch is "on". Then it does not go out with the hatch closed...only when the switch is "off". Is this the way it is supposed to behave? It would be nice if it worked with the dome light.
Also got my new wipers installed. The ANCOs that were on it were shot...just about to start scratching the glass with the metal bridge. So these are an improvement on that, and I'm sure they will work well (RainX Latitudes), but I'm not very happy with how they look on the car. They are bulky and stick up too much for my liking. The ANCOs I removed were very thin, and the metal bridge was still in very nice shape. I'll run these for this season, but when it's time to change again, I think I'll see if I can get new inserts for the old ANCO blades, and re-install them.
While cleaning, I noticed a neighbor (who has a 1st gen. Firebird conv., and a '39 Pontiac) looking over another fellows '38 Pontiac in his driveway. I wandered over to talk to them, and had a nice visit. The guy with the '38 is a Pontiac retiree, with 43 years at Pontiac. They are all members of a local Pontiac club, and they invited me to their first meeting of the year this next weekend. So I'll probably be checking that out as well.
Regarding your hood insulator plug:
My 91 Bird hat a large rubber plug in that place and the power antenna cables went through it.
At least the white and green cables, IIRC.
Was an a$$ getting it out through the hole.
Edit: Here it is.
That's interesting NCC-2569. If you look at the last photo I have in post 142, of the assembly out of the car, you can see my grommet. Looks a little different than yours maybe, and was actually very easy to remove. Still not sure why that hood pad style retainer is there (first photo in post 130).
Originally Posted by 2Much79
Very Nice DinoDave!!
Thank you 2Much79.
Originally Posted by RTGTA
I see this car a lot on the forum and every time I am amazed at how mint it is. What a beauty! Glad to see it in good hands!
Thank you RTGTA. It has it's little battle scares here and there, like any 25+ year old car will. I'd like it to be perfect, but of course, it's not. Just have to keep after it.
The antenna assembly hit the mail this morning. Should arrive at re-builder this week. Called Hawks and ordered some of those push-in retainers for the plastic inner fender. Interestingly (mantaguy), the one's they list are like the ones you linked to...threaded, with a philips head. He went and checked them on the shelf for me. He did have some that he said were just slightly larger, and were like my originals. I ordered those. If they are too big for the holes in the fender, I'll get the other ones. They should arrive this week.
09-17-2014, 08:45 PM
What to you all use? Time for plan B.
And once I cleaned one spot, the one next to it looked terrible. There's a LOT to do under that hood.
