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Hey Yall, new here, first post actually, what better way I suppose, than to dive in head first.
So I thought about a name for this project, I was going to call it "over my head" but.. I think thats perhaps too obvious
So I decided on scrapweight, because this car was not long for this world in its current condition, and will take a LOT of elbow grease to save. Also, because I paid just over scrap value for it.
The car's an 89 Firebird Formula 350 black/black. Looks like it was a fairly nice car in 89. PS/PB/PW/PL/AC. No cruise, no power seats, no fog lights.
What it is now is nothing short of a bucket of parts.
At some point someone staretd trying to part it out or turn it into a race car, and gave up, so there's a lot of parts that are flat out missing, or have been disassembled.
The hood on the ca ris fiberglass and held on with pins on the bottom and.. NOTHING on the top. The fiberglass is busted on one corner but otherwise solid.
No engine, no transmission, only 2 tires that hold air. (I have spare tires thankfully.)
I'm trying to figure out where to get started. I'm doing clean up and tear down, but in the grand scheme of things.. I'm not sure where to go.
My goal for the car is a basic restomod, slight lowering, some decent rims/tires, and an LQ9/4L80E LSx swap.
Someone jacked the car up by the fender and crushed it, so I can't get the drivers fender off, this is where it sits as of day 1.
Suggestions, helpful hints on where to get started would be appreciated!
I'll be checking out the clasifieds once I get an action plan together. Also got hawks and ecklers on my bookmarks.
I've done a lot of tear downs before, and build ups on GM vehicles, I prefer "newer" stuff like this because they're easier. A 10mm socket and an electric impact is just about all you need to do a full teardown.
Thanks! Other than the uh.. body work experiment someone did on the back passenger side, the car is rust free.
The airbox is missing in the engine bay. They couldn't get the lower bolts out so they just broke it off. So I'll need that, the heater core has been exposed so long its rusted.
The wiring has been chopped a bit for the stereo under the dash (for the dash speakers, they even used wire nuts..)
Passenger door has a nasty dent in it, and the interior has had a mouse living in it (and may still. Hopefully not though!)
The headlights are missing the motors and mounting brackets (they were just sitting in the engine bay)
I also can't figure out where the rear hatch popper is supposed to plug into, so I think somethings missing there.
Center console is missing, so my RPO codes are missing. Any easy way to tell what options I have?
Otherwise the interior is fairly complete. The seats are in decent shape but would need recovering. In a perfect world I'd find 4th gen seats to use. It'd be much cheaper. (I'd like leather, but wouldn't mind recovering these either.)
I'm thinking an LSx K member, stock A-arms with new bushings, tie rods etc. new rotors calipers pads hoses and master cylinder.
I started on the interior. My objective was to get the dash out. This is what I started with:
I found the mouse...
aand I got the dash out, but it turns out.. I also found the mouse's nest. It was right above the steering colum under the insulation. You can kinda see it in the huge pile of crap in the driver's floorboard. Now I have a lot of cleaning to do.
Next up is to get the seats out (fun since the passenger seat wont move and I can't get to the front bolts..) and then the carpet, and the rest of this wiring.
Also WHY is thre so much wiring in this car?! omg. I've gutted an 88 chevy truck from full interior to bare cab in 4 hours. This car has like 700 miles of wire in it. What is all this stuff?!
Trucks have less creature features that need all that wiring. I'm not sure what year switched rpo locations but try the backside of the lid for the locking storage in the back driver side. Might get lucky.
Welcome Fox118! WOW, you really did jump right on in! That's a lot of work. Start from scratch and work your way through it. It's not gonna happen in a week, but the members on here and your determination will help it turn into a reality some day. Kudo's to you!
Have seen much worse. And he's doing the right thing stripping it to the shell and starting from there. A good rust free body is always the best thing to start with and now he doesn't have to snatched the old tired motor out to rebuild or put something bigger in. He's saved a whole lot of time buying one already half stripped.
Nice 4 door beside the firebird lol. That yours as well?
Yea, I'm gonna have some pics tonight but the cabin is ALMOST bare metal now and it looks good!
Really this is a straight solid car that only has 134k miles on it. It was cosmetically a trainwreck but its a good car for a good price.
Yea, the 57 is mine. I've had it since 2000. It's mostly a shelf It runs but it needs new exhaust. I'm considering taking it to a cruise in at the end of this month, but I dont know if the cop that guards the cruise in will let me in with open headers.
This car so far has actually impressed me with just how straight it is.
The carpet and seats are out, the "Ratty" feeling of it is disapeparing with the removal of the dirty ratty interior.
The body is in good shape, I'm not even planning to take the doors off if I can help it. They dont seem to need new hinges amazingly. I'm getting no sag and both door handles work. (the passenger doors doesn't cleanly "pop" free though, so that may need some adjusting?)
wiring is everywhere. Why are there so few breaks? This harness isn't modular at all. I'm considering making my own modularity (is that a word?) for it so that I can remove sections? But I hate to cut a good harness.
Also, I called up Hawks and have a forward lamp harness on the way, so I'll have a complete car harness, minus the engine, but I'll get to that later. That's gonna cost a fair bit, so I need to get the car as organized as I can before I even try to dive into a motor.
The car's so eager to get back on the road its helping me by funding itself! Well, with a few pennies here and there.
Most of this was under the passenger seat and some under the back seat. I take it the owner liked to floor it maybe and was throwing coins out of passengers pockets?
Making a small pile for now. I want to re-dye the plastics, I can't remember the product I used to do this last time. Anyone know? I'm sticking with black, I just want to freshen them up and make them look nice n new. It's a real easy process. I dyed a tan truck interior grey and it was a near 100% match to stock grey panels. (I greyed the grey panels too so it was a 100% match though.)
I'm also happy to see this car has 6x9 openings in the B pillar. I can run a 6" round 2 way in there and get some good bass and may not need a sub like I had originally thought I'd need to have a decent system, although, with the right motor.. who even needs a radio?
Can someone tell me why there's a rubber hose that connects to a sensor on my brake pedal?
Also, why this house is rubber and bundled with a wire in a tape wrap? This is clearly a wear part, why would it be bundled like a wire harness? Do I need this?
Also, opinions.. I have the airbox out, I'm going to TRY to replace the engine side and run factory a/c. I think it will be easier than trying to work with a vintage air universal.
While its out, should I get a "new" heater core? The one thats in there is copper and is holding and has no evidence of leaks. The new ones look like cheap ones from over seas.
The vaccum diaphram things on there are also delco usa parts and hold suction very well, but while its out.. I am considering changing them. The rubber is more than 20 years old now.
I'm starting to think I dont need to pull the whole wire harness, its in good shape and is very well embedded into this car.
I'm considering a budget dynamat (peel n seal or useal from hardware store) on the floor and firewall. Floor will still get carpet, should the firewall insulation (upper and lower) be replaced too? Its damaged from the rat.
I don't want to shortcut, but.. I dont want to waste money either.
I've had success using Duplicolor's vinyl and plastic paint on interior pieces, but you need to use a good adhesion promoter (like a primer except for plastic) and really prep and clean the pieces well.
Those floors really look good too.
Also, if you get the VIN number, I know there's a website that can look it up and give you the RPO codes. I forgot what the address was, but a lot of guys here have used it.
There's a web tool to decode and tell you what the rpo codes for your car mean, but without the sticker, there's not a reliable way to determine what it had.
Right, I looked it up. Last time I used SEM color coat, SEM vynil prep and bulldog adhesion promoter and it seemed to work very well.
I've been using engine enamel on the engine bay today. (The car will be repainted on the outside, since its in fairly good shape, I dont need to strip it down and media blast the whole thing.) and I rebuilt the air box today. The acutators all seem to work and I can't find replacements anyway.
I still need the under hood airbox and the other hvac components, but that will come later.
Next step is to remove the steering column, and to prep the floor for something like dynamat, then I'll plan to drop the k-member and start on front suspension.
There's a place down the road that does media blasting. I'm not sure if I want to powdercoat it or not. I might use something like eastwood's "chassis black" rattle can.
I used that on a 71 C10 project a number of years ago and even though the shine didn't last, it was a tough surface and was almost as hard to scratch as powder coating.
Some yahoo jacked the car up by the body and crushed the driver side fender bolt at the door, so I Can't get that fender off. I'm gonna get a pneumatic chisel and try to chisel the bolt head off so that I can get the fender off, but I will have to fix this at some point.
Can't believe I'm buying new parts already. This thing has went FAST.
Also, last night I took some speaker wire and ran it from the belair's battery over to the car. I put my fuses all back in (the panel is labeled, so thats nice) and popped the 12v to my power window switches. Both power windows work! They're a bit slow though. So my windows are down now and access is much easier.
My hinges are good so I'm not messing with them. Driver side squeaks though, might need to spray the roller with something to help it out.
This is an advantage to living in the south I suppose. The cars in remarkable condition, dents and dings aside. With a motor I could have seen it on the road in its previous condition (well, minus the mismatched tires and grinder work on the rear panel.)
Things will start to slow down now that I'm getting into spending more money on it.
Teardown is free.
The heater core was $23. But the SEM combo is a good $200 or so.
I removed the 2 support bolts, the 3 firewall bolts, and the nut and bolt that rin through the column in the pic, I tug and tug, beat it with a rubber hammer, WD40.. it wont move AT ALL.
What am I missing??
I did some engine enamel cleanup with the engine bay.
It's not much, but once you get all the parts in here you won't see much body anyway. I just wanted to clean it up a bit while I could. I want to remove the column so that I can drop the K-member and start getting the suspension apart for sandblasting.
Yall reckon this hood is worth anything? See the top corners, fiberglass is busted. It could probably be repaired. It's in good shape otherwise.
Oh yea, this is why the driver side fender is still on:
See that little nub? That's the back of the 10mm bolt holding the fender on. Someone thought any old place was the best place for jack at some point, it seems.
Airbox is re-assembled with a new heater core. Trying to source a firewall side unit for the rest of my HVAC. A/c controls with uncut hoses is on the way. There's still some hoses that run through the firewall that are cut, I'm not yet sure what to do about those. Maybe silicone will work? It has to be air tight. If I could replace the whole hose I'd do it, but I'm not confident I can find that piece.
The door is black, but this mirror used to be blue. The passenger side front fender also used to be red. This car's been put together/repaired before, but there isn't any evidence of a wreck really, and other than this, the paint job seems within reasonable reproduction on the replacement parts.
I'm kinda leaning toward trying to make this car a GTA clone. I think they look better than the formulas, and..well.. I'm not sure.. but I may need a new front bumper anyway. That's a low priority though, its just a question of how hard it is to punch the holes needed for the body cladding to pull that off.
1 welcome, looks like you found a great project.
2 someone will want the hood but it doesn't belong on a bird. (id make it a sled)
3 rubber hose on brake switch, cruise control.
4 grab some pry bars, vice grips, hammer, crecent wrenches and 2x4s. that will fix the lower fender. I see that, a lot.
5 use a hard hammer on the steering shaft, firm yet gental hits.
6 keep it a formula 350, not a GTA or trans am.
This car doesn't have controls for cruise control though. There's also no wires or CC module. It'd be wonderful to add though, if it wasn't too hard, but I figure that it would be a lot of work to add it.
I just figured since I need a new hood, front and rear bumper, I may as well put what I think looks best on the car, since every marker that indicates what it is trim wise needs to be replaced.
That bumpers probably repairable really. I have time to chew on this part for quite a while. What I dont like are the matte black bumper pieces on the bumpers.
maybe I'm ahead of myself here.. where are the cruise control controls supposed to be? the turn signal lever yes?
I have a harness bundled with that hose that runs toward the front of the engine bay. I can't imagine what it goes to. It's not part of the standard fuse block.
I removed the 2 support bolts, the 3 firewall bolts, and the nut and bolt that rin through the column in the pic, I tug and tug, beat it with a rubber hammer, WD40.. it wont move AT ALL.
What am I missing??
I did some engine enamel cleanup with the engine bay.
It's not much, but once you get all the parts in here you won't see much body anyway. I just wanted to clean it up a bit while I could. I want to remove the column so that I can drop the K-member and start getting the suspension apart for sandblasting.
Yall reckon this hood is worth anything? See the top corners, fiberglass is busted. It could probably be repaired. It's in good shape otherwise.
Fix it and sell it I say, if you want a formula hood? Not a fan of that style at all I like the IMSA hood. I'm working on a similar project myself, I have an 86 Firebird base 305 that a PO converted to a Formula 350 clone. Good body at least in till some jerk hit and ran my driver side 1/4. I just finished fabricating a battery tray today and putting it in.
You are moving pretty fast, I do a little bit every day. Since you are going to do calipers and rotors I recomend the c5 brake upgrade you will find on here.
I was talking to texas speed today, they told me 450HP out of an LQ9 is a tall order.
I told them I got 405 at the wheels out of an LQ4 using milled LS3 heads, stock ls6 intake, and a 228r cam, so I didn't see why.
Either way, they told me I was going to need to put a LOT of money into my motor to put that kinda power down.
Go figure.. when new chevy trucks have 430HP.... ya gotta pay to play.
Also, this car's in remarkable condition really. I'm following the "KISS" model at this point. I'm also following the "if it aint broke don't fix it" model. Otherwise project creep will overwhelm me.
Next couple of plans are:
get the steering column out
get the K member out
tear down kmember
send small pieces from front end, k member, suspension components off to blasting.
Now this is where I start to sound dumb again.. I've never driven one of these cars. How are they? Do they handle like a 4th gen? (LS1 4th gen) Or are they worse?
I'm honestly considering doing lowering springs and keeping the stock sway bars, unless there's a lot of argument to upgrade them.
If I even get close to 450hp I will also need a stronger rearend, and some chassis stiffening so that my doors don't suddenly stop fitting. Even though its not a T-top car.
Well, it seems I've been moderated. Did I break a rule?
At any rate, here's where it is tonight:
I took the bumper off and the lower plastic trim so that I could paint and get better access to the suspension components in the next.. week or so? I'm not sure when the K member is coming out.
I've been looking at things, there's a hole in the firewall just forward of the door that looks like a wire harness should go there, there's also a round hole above it. What should be here? (no pic, but I can get one if this isn't clear.) I assume engine harness. I saw another thread here that mentioned wires hanging in the fender and its certainly in that area.
I also noticed this harness:
It comes out around the airbox and looks to be part of the hvac controls, a large relay, and what looks like a dryer connector, a large sized wire 2 pin connector, and a 3 pin connector with small wires.
The red wire comes off that relay that I can see.. and is divorced and cut. Inside the car it runs to 1 harness and 1 cut harness. I assume this went to the hvac controller?
There's also 2 vacuum hoses that are cut in this harness. I'm thinking about calling up hawks and getting an un-cut harness so that I can see where this was SUPPOSED to go.
I also have this harness and hose that run into my firewall. The hose connects to a switch on the brake pedal. Is this for cruise? Because.. I don't have controls for cruise on my column lever. Was it somewhere else on this model car?
This car doesn't have controls for cruise control though. There's also no wires or CC module. It'd be wonderful to add though, if it wasn't too hard, but I figure that it would be a lot of work to add it.
I just figured since I need a new hood, front and rear bumper, I may as well put what I think looks best on the car, since every marker that indicates what it is trim wise needs to be replaced.
That bumpers probably repairable really. I have time to chew on this part for quite a while. What I dont like are the matte black bumper pieces on the bumpers.
84 and earlier TA front bumper cover without the vents if you can find one will take care of that. I think showcar might make one but it is glass, also has the rest of the parts you need and some choices.
Also the hole you were asking about I believe is for the antenna on the fender, also a power antenna option on the car would have wires for the antenna motor.
Well, it seems I've been moderated. Did I break a rule?
At any rate, here's where it is tonight:
I took the bumper off and the lower plastic trim so that I could paint and get better access to the suspension components in the next.. week or so? I'm not sure when the K member is coming out.
I've been looking at things, there's a hole in the firewall just forward of the door that looks like a wire harness should go there, there's also a round hole above it. What should be here? (no pic, but I can get one if this isn't clear.) I assume engine harness. I saw another thread here that mentioned wires hanging in the fender and its certainly in that area.
I also noticed this harness:
It comes out around the airbox and looks to be part of the hvac controls, a large relay, and what looks like a dryer connector, a large sized wire 2 pin connector, and a 3 pin connector with small wires.
The red wire comes off that relay that I can see.. and is divorced and cut. Inside the car it runs to 1 harness and 1 cut harness. I assume this went to the hvac controller?
There's also 2 vacuum hoses that are cut in this harness. I'm thinking about calling up hawks and getting an un-cut harness so that I can see where this was SUPPOSED to go.
I also have this harness and hose that run into my firewall. The hose connects to a switch on the brake pedal. Is this for cruise? Because.. I don't have controls for cruise on my column lever. Was it somewhere else on this model car?
1, engine control harness is rectangle and the round one is for power antenna
2 HVAC
3 Cruise control
Since you are going this far with the car, you should really pick up a 89 firebird service manual. It will save you a buttload of time.
This brings me back to the early 90s when I painted my 89 formula 350 w ttops.
Teardown continues.
Wheels off, up on jackstands. Lets look at these brakes..
Note the sway endlink. I hope they weren't driving it like this!
Driver side doesn't instill confidence either.
Picked up a console local from CL as well. If anyones been able to find an SEM colorcoat that matches this grey, that'd be cool, cos it needs a little touching up I think. It's in overall good shape though, so if I can't match it.. well no big loss. I think its cosmetics may be sufficient in the long run. A nice fresh coat would look better though.
Hmmm...I think there is a limit to how many photos can be attached in a single post. Perhaps a work limit on how long it can be. If it was exceptionally long, it may not have allowed it.
Try several smaller posts Vs. one really long one.
Hmmm...I think there is a limit to how many photos can be attached in a single post. Perhaps a work limit on how long it can be. If it was exceptionally long, it may not have allowed it.
Try several smaller posts Vs. one really long one.
Yeah, there's a ten pic limit. I ran into that with my build thread.
To begin with bolt the strut mount back to the shock tower. That will help brace it. I can't tell from the pic what style the top is, but you're going to need to use a wrench on the nut, if the strut has flat spots put another wrench on that, other wise get a real thick flat head screwdriver, cut a slot in the top of that strut, hold the strut still with the screwdriver and turn the nut with the wrench.
OR if you don't care about the strut anyways and are replacing it, grab the strut shaft from inside the wheel well with vise grips and impact the nut off.
The strut is leaking, I'm replacing all these suspension and brake components if I can.
I may keep the stock springs though. I dont know if an LQ9 weighs more or less than the motor that came out of this car, but if it sits up in the front I'm gonna be frustrated. I'll more than likely replace the rear springs and leave the stockers in the front for now.
I'm going for new tie rods, calipers, rotors, hoses, pads, sway bar bushings/end links, struts, balljoints and control arm bushings.
I MAY go with a new drag link and pitman arm as well.
Well it's out. Neighbor came over, he's like a bulldog. He got in there and tore it down less than 2 hours. Once we got past the struts being stuck.
We wound up just hammering the mess out of the strut bolts with the impact. Normally I wont do this but that's because I dont have that many impact sockets. I just happened to have an impact socket in this size, so it went smoothly.
I wasn't going to mess with the steering gear, but I turned it to try to get the tie rods off and a thick rust colored water bubbled out of the fittings and its got me concerned.
Can a shop just check it out or possibly flush it and prep it to be re-used? Or do I need a new one? They're pricey so I'd rather only replace it if I have to.
I'm gonna take this pile and a few other odds and ends to a sandblaster. I dont have one here or I'd just do it myself. I MAY have the K member and A-arms powder coated. Depends on cost.
I cleaned up the under spray and rattle canned it black. I'm not sure if this was the best idea, but it looks good right now at least.
Hey, what's that knuckle on the steering column called? not the rag joint but the other balljoint universal joint thing. I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere. The boot on mine is torn. It seems to work fine but, I wanted to see what it cost and how hard it was to replace.
Also, what steering ratio did a formula 350 have? Called a shop about my coffee colored steering fluid, he said the gear is too far gone So I need a new one.
Having a surprising amount of trouble finding someone to sandblast these parts.
One place refused to do any prep and said that if they weren't fully blast ready they would refuse the work. (they were very hostile for me calling them too.)
Another shop said they would prep, but they would charge at least 1 hour at $65/hr to prep them. (by prep I mean remove balljoints and control arm bushings.) They also said ANY grease or oil on them would be a 1 hr removal fee, and estimated 2 hours to blast the parts.
I mean.. I can buy a blasting kit for less than $120.
I just don't see why this little detail has to be so expensive? I was expecting blasting to be less than $100. In fact I was expecting these parts to be blasted and powder coated for less than $150.
Am I just way off in the value of things?
Neighbor has a sandblasting cabinet, but the kmember wont fit. I can probably have a machine shop push the balljoints and bushings out for $20 or so, or I might could use my bench vice to press some of that out. Seems like thats how we did it on my last project. But that's been more than 10 years ago.
Take the parts to a car wash with hot soapy water and clean them, remove the parts you need to and then have them blasted.
You could also have them hot tanked at a shop.
Bought a cheap siphon feed sandblaster and I've been slowly using it. It's not the greatest, but for $50 I can blast anything I Want given enough time, vs $200 one time fee for a few small parts.
Been trying to find a shop to press out the balljoints and control arm bushings. Much to my surprise shops are wanting $75-100 to do it.
I was expecting like $20. It should only take a few minutes to do. Starting to think if I can find a big metal cup I can use my bench vice to get it out.
Shops want $75 to $100 for 10-20 minutes of work? That's a little excessive.
Unless you are in good with the shop employees, or just happen to find a "nice" shop owner, most will charge their minimum, regardless of how long it takes to do the job.
Another alternative is if you have Harbor Freight in your area, you can get a ball joint press kit for around 39.00 when they are on sale. That will work for the balljoints obviously, but will also come in handy for the control arm bushings as well.
I picked up a balljoint press on loan from autozone. I'll try to press em out this weekend. I was hoping to get some more blasting done but looks like we're gonna be rained out, and I'm just making a mess in front of the shop with the media right now. not tryin to reclaim it.
Hey, if I do a drop on this car, small like 1" or somethin.. do I need new spindles? or are the springs all I need? I need to decide soon. Once all this stuff is blasted and painted I'm putting it back together, so I need to make up my mind.
Springs or cut the stockers.
If (some of) you say its bad for the spring, please read Herb Adams suspension book. He was a suspension guy at GM for yrs and he shows you how to cut them in the book.
I have cut stock springs in the past, if done right you won't have any suspension issues but it does make the ride quite a bit more bumpy. In my opinion it's not worth it to cut them. I'd keep stock springs and put some lowering springs in it. That way you have stock to go back to should you ever decide to raise it back up.
08-31-2015, 08:31 PM
Welcome Fox118! WOW, you really did jump right on in! That's a lot of work. Start from scratch and work your way through it. It's not gonna happen in a week, but the members on here and your determination will help it turn into a reality some day. Kudo's to you! 
So I need a new one. 
