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Here it is. Version 3 of my '89 Formula 350, now powered by a 550 crank horsepower / 505 lb/ft torque, 6.2 liter LS3.
This was my first EFI (or cross-generational EFI) swap. This swap was done almost entirely in my shop and almost always without even so much as a second set of hands. I say that only to underscore the fact that this is something that can be done by a relative novice. That said, this transformation would not have been possible without some key people who I want to thank for their time, plus technical and emotional support. You guys were on the mountain top throwing me ropes. I look forward to being able to do the same.
88Greg - this simply would not have come to fruition under my roof without him. More on that later. QwkTrip - lots and lots of useful input. TEDSgrad - useful input and needed reminders that the difficulties are common experience. jbenge - figuring out that one of my motor mounts must be on backwards, since apparently the vendors don't know how their products go on our cars. Everyone else here at TGO who has and will hopefully continue to provide input to help me along with this ongoing project. Also, thanks for helping me stay motivated during the times it seemed like it just wasn't meant to be.
I also would like to thank
My cousin Monte. What could be better than a welding genius in the family?
My buddy, Jason Kibe, builder of transmissions by trade, builder of my 4L60E, who gave of his time to help mate it to the engine and car at my shop.
My buddy, Ervin Yarbrough, a second set of hands and eyes...and brain cells when needed. Steve and Laurie, owners of Dog House Powder Coating, my friends in the powder coating business.
My friend and neighbor, Kurt Anderson, extra set of hands, plus generously allowing me to use his lift, and lending me his covered trailer. He's got the best toys and he shares.
This version of my Formula started as a quest for more power. It began with the question of LS Swap or Forced Induction. Those forced induction guys on TGO were great, and I initially opted to go the forced induction route. The first rope I want to throw is by settling this argument for anyone starting off in that particular quandary [forced induction or LS swap]. Yes, it would have been cheaper to do forced induction. Yes, it would have been easier to do forced induction. Even if it meant pulling my newly built L98 to optimize the engine for boost, it still would have been cheaper and easier than an LS swap in the end. Note: I said "cheaper" in the end. I said "easier" in the end. I did not say "better" in the end.And I'm not saying "worse" in the end. It is also worth noting that I tend to not be your "junkyard builder" or even particularly budget-minded once I decide to start a project.
The reason I bailed on the Procharger route was because I couldn't find any professional support ANYWHERE for what I wanted to do, and learning to be an engine tuner wasn't something I felt comfortable with. No one wanted or knew how to work on TPI/First Generation EFI. "Why don't you just do an LS?", many would say. Of course, as is often the case, once I began to implement the LS conversion, those professionals who could have supported the forced induction build & tune all seemed to reveal themselves.
One other thing: There will be some fabrication. And there will be more trips to the local "parts store" than you can possibly imagine. Get your mind right when it comes to that.
Here's damage report on the car:
Under the Hood:
Cammed LS3 engine built by Nutter Racing Engines, Vancouver, WA
Plug & Play wiring harness by Greg Jestico (88Greg) Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Hooker Blackheart longtube 1 7/8" headers
Hawks Black Midnight Series AFPR/fuel line kit
Hawks AC delete heater box
Moroso oil/air separator
Spohn adjustable strut towers
Air Raid "You Cut It" CAI
4th Gen radiator and fans
Under the Car:
Hooker Blackheart true dual exhaust
4th Gen 17" WS6 wheels; BFG 275/40 tires
Baer 12" front brakes (looking to upgrade)
Wonder Bar
Koni Yellows
Hotchkis springs
Hotchkis SFCs
Hotchkis LCAs
Hotchkis adjustable Panhard bar
UMI torque arm
Built 4L60E
Yank 3400 converter
4th Gen aluminum drive shaft
Stock 9-bolt rear (3.27s)
Walbro 255 pump & Hot Wire kit
Inside the Car:
Rather pristine, mostly stock interior
Lecarra thick grip leather steering wheel
Good stereo, good speakers, amp/subwoofer/box
More pictures to come. More story to come. And answers to any questions about my Formula and this ongoing process.
So, for those of you who followed the other thread, which turned into an LS swap thread, you'll remember that was torpedoed right in the propeller by some wiring snafus.
I'd lopped of stuff I was supposed to keep - and sold it with the L98. I had a very competent guy bail on me less than halfway through sorting out my wiring issues. I was in the position of having to hope this guy was going to come through...in two weeks...in two more weeks...sometime next month, maybe... So i was gonna have to go with a Hawks harness.
Then, out of nowhere, I get a PM from 88Greg:
Hello Linson,
I see you are having some wiring issues. It's possible I may be able to help. I have a small biz making LS wiring harnesses from scratch part time. I am also familiar with the 3rd gen wiring as I have owned an 88 TA since new. I can fab a new harness from scratch using all correct Delphi plugs and High temp colour coded wiring. I also can modify stock harnesses.
I am located in Vancouver BC.
Best wishes on your project.
Greg
At first, I was seeing a couple of red flags. (1) That this person solicited me (you all know how dicey it can be on the internet). (2) This person is in Canada, a foreign country, which I think would limit my recourse were I to get scammed. But...these were desperate times. And, as we PM'ed, texted, and called, I started to feel pretty comfortable dealing with Greg. The things he was inquiring about Indicated (1) that he knew what he was doing, and (2) that his interest was in accomplishing what he said he wanted to do.
I sent Greg my existing LS engine harness, and what was left of my C100 and body harness. At one point he said he wanted to keep the harness I sent him and make me a new one from scratch because, using his '88 as a mock up, he determined that the existing harness wouldn't be long enough. At that point, I was like, "screw it - whatever you gotta do, man". Maybe three or four weeks later (I told him to take his sweet time because I knew I still had a lot of other things to get done) I got back what was described to me as a plug and play harness. Let me just jump ahead a little and say that in an increasingly rare turn of events, everything was completely as advertised.
So, what I got from Greg, besides a very pretty, high quality, plug and play harness that works is:
a ton of live tech support
on tons of issues, not just related to wiring
that was available weekends and after business hours (actually even more so)
from a guy who knows his product, and knows our cars frontwards and backwards
a ton of patience
a genuine interest in seeing my project through (he was not just interested in selling me a harness)
A couple of quick anecdotes:
When everything was wired in, the car would crank but wouldn't start - he talked me through bypassing the VATS.
Then the fuel pump wouldn't engage. This guy had the unadulterated nerve to tell me that there was a third ground wire that I'd missed. Having wired and rewired that engine multiple times, I said I'd be a monkey's uncle if there was a third ground that I'd missed and had never seen. Sure enough...there it was. That was just prior to the first start up video in the other thread. And when I realized the speedometer was not working, he walked me through bypassing the VSS.
Having been through what I've been through, and feeling like things were just never going to work, it is truly a thrill just to see ALL systems working just like before.
If you're doing an LS swap, and are in need of a wiring solution, I personally cannot recommend ANYTHING else than working with 88Greg.
I will not set a price for him by divulging what I paid. I will only say that it was significantly less than any vendor. It is unlikely that a more expensive product would be qualitatively superior. It is a literal impossibility that the product support could even hope to come close.
Greg, my friend, I hope I didn't embarrass you. But I'm trying to throw ropes here. It'd be irresponsible of me to send people anywhere else. You were a huge part of this project coming together. I can't thank you enough.
One thing I never understood was why people seem to coalesce around leaving the diagnostic port as a loose pigtail or stuffed into the passenger side dash somewhere.
On mine, we simply lengthened the wires and installed it in the stock location - cramming the factory one up into the dash.
What a clean freaking job! That blue paint in there just really makes it look good. I keep looking at it, very impressed Dave. Hell I was impressed with the last engine you had under there.
What a clean freaking job! That blue paint in there just really makes it look good. I keep looking at it, very impressed Dave. Hell I was impressed with the last engine you had under there.
Thank you for the complements. That particular blue paint does pop, and seems to love the camera. I was very meticulous in the layout of everything - thanks for noticing.
I need to put some miles on it and overcome the mental obstacle of wanting to have everything absolutely perfect before driving it. Its having some idle issues, which from what I've read are pretty common on LS swaps and even factory LS cars. The engine builder said to bring on down and he'll try and work out these remaining driveability issues - and I do appreciate that, but its like four hours away.
I have not even gone full throttle yet, but the cars seems stupid fast compared to before. I wish I was recording it when I passed a car while going over an overpass today. 1/4 throttle = trouble with the law. My L98 with Dyno Don's and Hooker cat back used to sound like a mountain lion when I'd stab the throttle. This motor, with long tubes and Hooker true duals sounds like a grizzly bear.
There's a transmission fluid leak that needs to be addressed. There's the aforementioned idle issues (basically, if I am doing 30 mph, and I take my foot off the gas, the car keeps going 30 mph for a very long time - and it drops and surges when coming to a stop, and goes into what seems like "IAC hunting" when backing into my garage after driving it. Scanner is coming back with P0121 (TPS problem).
This pic was taken today outside a metal fabrication place. They did my radiator shroud. Today, I took the hood bulge block off plate to have another one made, but with slots cut out of it for functional heat exchange. This picture doesn't do justice to how mean and sexy she was looking. I said to the guy, "can you believe some people don't like these", and he was like, "yeeeaaaah, these were really never my favorite...I like the '60s GTOs". : I mean, whatever. To each his own...but I was kinda mind-boggled by the "meh" reception.
Beautiful when it all comes together. Nothing better than parking the car, and just can't resist looking back over your shoulder with pride at your own car - PRICELESS!
. : I mean, whatever. To each his own...but I was kinda mind-boggled by the "meh" reception.
I get that from a particular friend of mine. For the record, he built an 86 TA with a 502 BBC/TKO 500/Moser 12 bolt but has developed an absolute disdain for the 3rd gen platform. That particular chassis became my property years ago however has since been mothballed and sits in storage. Fair comment from him though as he has a 67 Chevelle ($100k spent and climbing), an 81 Monte Carlo (which started out as a grocery getter for the Mrs and has now gone low 12's) and a recently acquired 69 C10 Stepside with an LS3/4L80 waiting in the wings. I can however appreciate his point of view in that my first car was a 68 Beaumont (Chevelle).
But...
Then again, the first time I saw a 3rd gen Camaro back in 81, I said "That will make a cool hot rod one day). As it turns out, 17 years later I picked up an 84 Z28 and have never looked back (except maybe to find another 68 Chevelle project to actually finish)
Good looking car Linson. And I look over my shoulder at my current 86 Coupe all the time. Sometimes I crank the front wheels just so so it gives it that perfect picture stance.
I love this car and your build. Before I bought my current third gen, I would come on this site and read everything just to reminisce a little. Then I found your build Linson, I read it all and thats when I knew I had to get my blue formula back. Everything about your build is perfect, precise and just down right badass. The wheels look great, the body looks mean and that engine and sound is a beast. I cant wait to see and hear more!
I gotta say...I dunno "humbled" is the right word. Seems like that word is often simply misused.
I will go with proud and grateful.
I am grateful and proud that some people here are inspired by my car, my build, these threads - as I have been inspired by others here.
Good news and bad news:
The Bad: The previously mentioned "tuning issues" are of a nature that I'm not comfortable with driving the car until these issues are addressed. So the car will remain off the road for probably another 3 weeks. The most disconcerting issue is the fact that, from a full tank, with 35 miles on the trip meter the car is down to less than 3/4 tank, according to the fuel gauge. Other than that, its just hanging high idle speed, some other minor idle issues, and TPS codes (P0121).
The Good: I've ordered a Nick Williams 92mm throttle body. These are purportedly the best in the business for aftermarket throttle bodies, and will eliminate questions about the throttle body's effect on minor driveability concerns. In about three weeks, she has an appointment for dyno tuning. This should get her where she needs to be in regard to driveability and overall tune. Also, I'd assume, I'll leave there with RWHP/TQ numbers.
The most disconcerting issue is the fact that, from a full tank, with 35 miles on the trip meter the car is down to less than 3/4 tank, according to the fuel gauge.
A tank of fuel lasts me about 140 miles in mixed city/highway driving. Welcome to 550 Hp.
A tank of fuel lasts me about 140 miles in mixed city/highway driving. Welcome to 550 Hp.
Originally Posted by Linson
Not a very nice welcome, is it? At this rate, it seems like it'll do half that. But I'll go ahead and manage my expectations based on what you've told me.
Either of you gentlemen have any experience with a full tank of fuel and highway cruising?
The LSX454 in the "fleet" here, wrapped in a brick shaped Chevelle body has managed a very respectable 24 MP Imperial G (or about 21 miles per US gallon) for an extended tour. That'a a 625 CHP lump with EFI but otherwise right out of the crate.
But of course "mixed driving" as posted above can be mixed more in one direction than the other...!
Not me. My car is pure hell to drive long distance. I drive it for fun only.
I have no doubt with a lean cruise in 6th gear I could knock down some numbers. But what fun is that?!? If I just need transportation then I have a really quiet, comfy, plush riding truck.
Not me. My car is pure hell to drive long distance. I drive it for fun only.
Not to hijack Linson's thread however I find that comment interesting.
I've driven my Camaro across the country several times accumulating nearly 6000 miles a trip. While it's no Cadillac, I find it entirely enjoyable. While I do feel the bumps and cracks in the road, it's not bone jarring by any sense and the seating position is ultimately comfortable. Perhaps a little loud for my taste as I get older and less tolerant but still I'd take it on a thousand mile trip at any time. (Except now that it's wounded)
But of course "mixed driving" as posted above can be mixed more in one direction than the other...!
Ya, there's always a few (or more) high throttle bursts and I don't spend much time below 2K rpm. Almost anybody can get better mileage than me. I measure success in smiles per mile. This is the same guy that gets less than 1K miles from a set of tires.
Totally understood as I've been there and done that (although maybe not quite that hard on tires).
Interestingly, since my current engine is hurt, (pretty sure I've lost a chunk out of a camshaft lobe) I've taken to slow and gentle cruises through some of the "estate" subdivisions around here. There are times when an hours worth of touring hasn't seen the RPM exceed 2k.
But, there are better things to come.
The most disconcerting issue is the fact that, from a full tank, with 35 miles on the trip meter the car is down to less than 3/4 tank, according to the fuel gauge.
It's always unknown once we mess with the gauge sending unit - they are fragile. The first half of the tank is not so critical for gauge measurement, but the last half you certainly want to know just where you are. You'll need more tank fills to discern exactly what's going on.
Fill tank completely full, and reset trip meter. Drive til empty, record trip mileage, and refill - calculate full tank mpg. Drive until half on the gauge, refill tank and record gallons put into tank along with trip mileage. Does your complete tank burn mpg match your half tank burn mpg? If not, your sending unit is not accurate on the first half of tank (not uncommon).
When I go on trips, I always record the gallon fill, $ per gallon & total, along with miles traveled. Over the course of a long trip, it's pretty accurate, but cruising is pretty steady state driving.
Hauled her down to Vancouver WA and stayed overnight to get it tuned.
Had a good feeling that the tuning session would be fruitful when my wife informed me that it's supposed to rain all week long: meaning, that it would figure that if the car is ready to run, the weather would hinder my ability to drive it.
Turns out, the existing tune was all ****ed up. Permanent power enrichment mode...and other tables just way out of whack.
I did get a chance to drive the car to the car wash and back before it rained again. No issues. The drivability issues seem fixed and the car runs great. The Nick Williams throttle body alone seems to have fixed many of the cold start issues.
She's ready to run, just need the weather to clear.
I have similar cutouts on my hood scoop block off plate also. When idling it does let hot air out as well as pull it in under throttle. Never had any trouble with rain getn in there either. Your swap is the best looking LS swap in a third gen I've seen. Great job!
Also, big thanks to last month's COTM Winner, cehbra. By way of all the way over in Switzerland, my Formula is now equipped with an *authentic* vented hood plate.
08-10-2018, 02:35 AM
