QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thanks for the pointers. I'll let you have your thread back now!

I'm hoping to hear how you got that thing down to 3000 pounds. That's C5 Z06 weight class!

427seven

Anytime, this is - I believe - our thread, I couldn't just have one by myself.... The weight, yes, it surprised even me. Again, I learned tricks while racing, for the "production" class my 84 that I ran as an 87 weighed 2700lbs, I had to add a bunch of weight to be legal, but I was able to add right at the bottom of the car as far back (inside the rear bumper) as I could get it. You expect that the removal of the air conditioning and all its associated components will be a big loss of weight, as well as the engine change. But when you add up all the little things, like all of the factory undercoating, unnecessary wiring, and replacing steel with aluminum and fiberglass you would be surprised too. I even went through a few piles of T-tops, there is weight differences there that might surprise some people if you can go through enough of them. The tolerances were a bit different in the 80's than they are now. I don't have time now, but once I get in the groove of this forum, I'll do little blurbs, I'm sure there are many other people who know about and do this kind of stuff. For me, weight is an obsession, my friends joke about it, but I remind them about one of those rules of thumb, every 100lbs gets you a tenth.... If you want to stop and turn, they're worth even more.

427seven

How to pass gas....

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

That's one way! Very nice I might add. ....my wife has an entirely different method.

427seven

Ya right, yer wife..... My ***

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN. Killer build! Absolutely outrageous......I LOVE IT!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Very nice.

Reminds me of the old Bassani true dual system for 4th gens we used to modify for our cars.

Don't even put that in my freaking head lol...

- Rob

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

Just saw this thread. My eyeballs came out. Took a few minutes to find them. Welcome!

427seven

Thank you for the welcome! Been away a couple days, work gets in the way sometimes. Looking back over some of the comments a common one seems to be how long this takes, and that goes for most of us. When you do it yourself, good things take time. This car ended up in the body shop for a long time, the painter insisted that the primer had to completely dry out if I wanted the paint to last a long time, I guess all the solvents need time to cure. It was tough to go see it every so often, seemed like every time I saw it there, it hadn't moved or changed. It sat in primer for over a year. Now I'm not a body man, he was a really good guy, and the paint turned out phenomenal. Before I sent it off, I cut off the door handles.... some people like it, some people don't. I wouldn't do it on every car, but I liked it here. I'll put on a few pics from that stretch of time.

427seven

When the paint started to fly.....

427seven

And had to refer to the gymkhana.....

Chopski

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. When it is coming at you it sounds bad *** then it roll past. Dang!

bull-vette

427seven

Thanks bull-vette, accumulating the tools took just as long as building the car.... way too long. Seeing others inspired me, so I hope this can do the same!

427seven

New vid, just a little 335X30 tire smoke.....

427seven

RE: March 2019 Car of the Month WINNER

Thank you all very much. Even though it's only been a few weeks here, I feel at home. I have been working on these cars for so long, and I found another group of people who are also just like that. It's not like I'm a new member at all. After you do this for so long you get to know what these cars need and deserve. You all know that too. It is an honor to have you all appreciate the car. It's not over for me, I'll be doing this for a lifetime, we're here because we think a lot of these cars, they have a following because they really are a great car. There is still lots to be done, always want little changes here and there. And now a place to share. Thank you again.

427seven

The modified hinge on the left

This is a sturdy hinge, the original design was overkill


As many of you know, this car is lighter than most, and I'm gonna show some of the ways that this happened. Generally, adhering to the laws of physics enables one to do this stuff, and really help the performance of the car. Knowing the intended purpose of the car helps, you can focus, or target weight for removal. In this case I wanted something that leaned to the side of a road racer more, so generally, I wanted weight off the front and off the top. Although things like the hatch would be nice to get rid of, and in the case of the real road racer I did, you have to strike a balance when you want to have a streetable car. So the factory hatch stayed, and the lexan one is in storage. At the front, however, the AC did not fare so well, it is in storage along with the lexan, and the front end of the car got a lift. I hope to detail weights of these items in the next few additions to the thread.
One of the things that was done was the modification of the factory style hood hinges. Although all by itself, it represents a small number, by the time I'm finished here, you can add it all up. Th factory hinges added up to nearly 9 pounds, the modified ones less than half that. Because it is a three piece unit, the stability was maintained with the fiberglass hood. This is a free loss of 5 lbs.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Forgive me if you already stated, I forgot, have you weighed your car?

427seven

Yes, the thread has gotten long…. page 2, 3040 with a half tank of gas, that's 50.8% front and 49.2% rear

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Right on. That's good considering you added that extra structure in the back of the car for the IRS and fuel tank. Did you do a lot of Swiss cheese like the hood hinges?

427seven

No, the structure was maintained or enhanced, replaced by similar panels made of other materials such as aluminum or fiberglass. I generally don't like holes bc of dirt, I hate it and it always collects when you make a hole. Another example of weight loss is the hood latch panel and it's support (steel) one was replaced by fiberglass. They look the same in the car, and a vast majority of people wouldn't notice, but there is weight loss there. The poundage is just one aspect of this, because of where it's located, there is a leverage advantage working on that cg, and the weight distribution. The hood was 45 pounds, and that together with the panel and the other hood related parts resulted in a 55 pound weight savings at the top front of the car.

Aviator857

Did you make the latch pannel, I've never seen an aftermarket one?

427seven

Yes, have been making them here and there for many years....

Aviator857

You could have a little side business there ... Cutting weight in front of the core support would help alot with the understeer that occurs on these cars under heavy braking, obvious within reason on a street car understeer is typically better than oversteer. Replacing the crash bar with an aluminum one would also help. Being that far forward in the Arm any weight lost there would have huge effects on the moment moving the CG further back.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Stated like a true Aviator

427seven

YES! Lots of times when you talk like that people get a blank stare in their eyes.... Even for drag racers, moving the % weight rearward allows easier transfer at launch. As far as the bumper bar and cover support, I chose to keep it here (front and rear) as this a street car and the road must be shared with grannies et al. I built an aluminum one but for all the hassle it was only worth a pound or so, the factory one is quite light and it fits well so the facia looks right. I have built these before, and will be experimenting with fg for a facia filler as the poly u facia support is relatively heavy. You will see that the headlights are gone and have been replaced by ones that weigh 25% of the stock pop ups. That's another 15 pounds gone off the very front of the car, and I havn't even gotten into the engine compartment yet.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I took out my 89s front bumper and made a single 1" square tube piece that weighs 1 lb. It took 35lbs off the front. Not what I'd even remotely call a street part yet here I am driving around with it. (Put some lead in the rear bumper ;-) )

427seven

That's what happens when the racer part of you wins over the streeter, or after some granny on the street bites you. (:

a62belair

Thanks for sharing your wonderful build! I have some ideas in my head now, that I haven't even thought of before! I'll never be able to fund something remotely this ambitious (divorced), but small things like your headlights, styling concepts, and air bags in the front suspension will be stuck in my head. Congrats on COTM! Keep the rubber to the ground, sunny side up!

427seven

Thanks a62belair. I started the same way, you'd be surprised what you can get done over time, though!

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Wow what an incredible build! Wish i had the guts to do an IRS setup!

Jay

427seven

You can do it! If I did it.... I have no engineering training, but the information is there, as long as you have the guts to ask questions and not worry about what people think of your questions.... Doing the swap is the fun part, encountering problems is the work part, if your not afraid of work, then you have the guts!

427seven

The size of the front wheel tire combination created some difficulty, there were literally days of running equations figuring out widths, offsets scrub radii, in the hopes of getting identical "dish" sizes for the front and rear, maximizing tire size, getting into the scrub radius zone, and still not having the tires rub. In the end I had to compromise, the tires rub. In an effort to minimize this the factory wheelhouse splash guards were modified so that I still had them, but they didn't get removed every time I went around a corner. This can for the most part be eliminated as a problem if you don't lower the car, in fact the lower the car, the worse it is.... One added bonus is that another 7 pounds went by the wayside....

Pino91Form

Amazing car and work, I agree with you this is how Pontiac would have done if GM hadn't been in the way!

427seven

Sad that Pontiac is gone, we have to keep the name alive. So many good things within the constraints of the Corporation.

427seven

Well now the big weight dump, the engine compartment. I don't know if anyone has taken A/C out and actually added up all the parts, but I did. The A/C, brackets and hardware added up to 45 pounds. I thought it would be more than that, but since most of the parts were aluminum, that's what it was. Then there was the A I R system, all of that was another 30pounds. The engine block and heads were 150 pounds. All of this in front of the firewall. The battery, 50 pounds swung 16 feet. If any one wants to know exactly what all the weights are, MMVS is the best. All the parts are itemized for weight, so if you're a fanatic, or you race, this is the place to find all the info.

rgauder

iTrader: (1)

Sub'd for more of the headlight build.

427seven

More headlight info coming, as I said earlier in the thread new printed boxes coming...

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

Wow, what a build! I found it from the thread about getting air into/out of the engine compartment. I really like a lot of what you've done and looking forward to the upcoming updates. I would be curious to see a c4 front paired with your c4 rear, see how it moves the bar compared to stock or the 'vette itself.

Here's a link to a front c4/ steering rack swap:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...-c4-front.html


Can't wait to see what else you have in store.

427seven

I'm happy you liked it. I'm so busy right now, I haven't had enough time to continue right now. Within the next few weeks I will have more on about the things people refer to he most, I want to profile the transmission overdrive unit, the lights, and continue with the weight reduction review. As soon as the weather is better, I have a new Y K + with image stabilization that I will be putting under the hood - among other things. Wait till you see those headers light up....

427seven

Oh ya, the front suspension, there is that too. I have a full C4 front suspension that I was going to use, but I will be experimenting with options, much less involved ones, and much less expensive, too....

427seven

AND.... I will be finishing that all leather interior.....

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

GTA is amazing! WHOLE OTHER LEVEL of anything I've seen built by an individual. Hats off to you & the dedication. It is obvious you're an intelligent person who can not only speak of doing something but you can apply your knowledge AND make it happen. KILLER build. MORE VIDEOS of 7000+ RMPS

soloc4

If you decide to do the C4 front suspension, I can help you with that. Let me know if you're interested.

427seven

Thanks, will do. I know you really have a lot put into yours, so the experience is invaluable. Would like to see your car on the road.... !

427seven

Thank you. It's kinda neat to put it out on to a media that I haven't used before. When I take the car out, people are attracted to the sights and sounds, and there is always someone around it. On a forum like this, everyone can see how it came to be, not something you necessarily get watching it scream by on the road....

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

I've always wondered if headers glowed under anything resembling normal driving/how much it would take to make them glow.

Looking forward to the leather interior too.

427seven

Someone posted a bunch of pictures of this car on Instagram fbodysforever…. It wasn't me... And facebook….

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

You gotta be careful about the pictures posted on facebook. It might not even be your car.

427seven

I saw the pictures, it was my car, I don't do facebook… yet