profootbrake2

Go here to find out more about hard brake pedal feel
http://www.aerospacecomponents.com/i...d=43&Itemid=41

Aerosmith

You can get a short 8" section of 1/4" line at Napa with the oversize fitting on it for about $3 if you don't want to use adaptors. I bought it and cut off the flare and made my own line with it.
I used the small 1 1/16" bore Strange m/c and moved my pedal rod up to 2" below the pivot point of the pedal to the bracket. I used the top 2 bolt holes from the power booster to mount the m/c and that gives the recommended 6:1 pedal ratio.
Wilwood 4 piston kit up front and Torino drums on my 9" out back.
Pedal is harder than power as would be expected but better than what you guys are probably getting with a 1 1/8" m/c and just moving the rod up an inch. Stock pedal ratio is around 3:1 for the power, (12" pedal arm with the push rod 4" down), by moving the rod to 2" down you get 6:1. Keep in mind your pedal will travel farther to move the same volume of fluid, but it will move easier.
And you don't have to bend the pedal arm like that, I simply adjusted my rod end to pull the pedal down and bent the contact tab for the brakelight switch on the pedal arm down flush...everything works as it should.

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

I switched my stock cylinder to the Strange MC, I've eliminated the prop valve & will plumb in "T" to the master & a Jegs adj valve to the back. My prob is the adj valve is 3/16 & the line is 1/4, so finding an adapter should be my biggest problem.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

again....autozone, murray's, o'reilley's, etc all sell that type of adapter.

2nd time posting this info.

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

I had trouble finding adapters for my rear "Y" block NPT to -3 AN rear brake hoses, so I was expecting a difficult time locating the 3/16" to 1/4" adapter too. I did locate them pretty quick.
I found it, & installed the new master & Jegs prop valve, all I have to say is what a difference. I used to have to use all my leg muscle to hold it & then it was still questionalbe. Now its almost effortless.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

there is no reason manual brakes should be any harder and stop any less than a working power brake set up.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

what master cylinder did you end up with?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

come fix mine?

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

Heres the part # I used, its from Summit (B3360t). It even came w/ 2 firewall plates.

The B3359T is a 1.125 bore (optimum for 4 piston calipers front & rear)

The B3360T is 1.032 bore (optimum for vehicles w/ 4 piston calipers ini the rear & 2 piston, or single piston caliper on the front)

Verbatum as per Strange instructions.

I forgot to mention my old set up was factory master & factory prop valve & factory front disc set up, w/ Wilwood Dynalite calipers in the rear.

On the dyno, the old set up wouldnt even stop the rear wheels. Now its solid.

Who do I thank??

88tpi350

iTrader: (5)

next to hit this old horse lol

im currently running stock front calipers and sock drums in the rear on a 10 bolt. im an not sure which kit to go with.... the car is for drag use only now so im not to picky as long as i can hold her at the line and eventually stop before the sand.

only reason to do this is m cam is way to big for my power brakes and the can didnt help much at all.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku work??

superT

iTrader: (1)

you could try to use the stock master cylinder first and see how you like it. i am currently running the stocker in mine and i think it works well but i have 99 SS brakes on the rear not drums. one other thing that is mentioned several times in this post is not to forget to move the pivot location at the pedal or your brakes won't feel or work for crap.

just for reference i run 11.72 @ 113 and don't have any trouble stopping before the sand.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

89 dodge caravan master clyinder from orlieys.
brand new, and the cheapest around.
pedal is a lil spongy, brakes at the bottom right now, but a couple more bleeds and ill be good.
stops fine, just a lil more foot pressure.

88tpi350

iTrader: (5)

did you just remove the booster? i dont mind doing a free modificaion and yeah ill definatly move that linkage

superT

iTrader: (1)

yeah you have to remove it or it will work as if you shut the car off and killed all vaccum and everyone who has had that happen knows it really sucks.

what i did was removed the master cylinder from the booster and then the booster from the firewall. From there i removed the bracket from the back of the booster and used it to mount the master cylinder to the fire wall. you will need to drill new holes in the bracket for the master cylinder or figure out a way to use the holes that are there, i have seen it done both ways. then when you get the master cylinder mounted you can cut and reweld the original pueh rod or make a new one, just keep in mind to make sure that the original push rod is sqaure and straight before you weld it or it could break under pressure.

i have seen earlier on in this post were some guys used a rod end and threaded drill rod to make a new push rod, if rewelding the original doesn't sound like something you feel safe doing then i would look through this post and may contact one of those members.

hope this helps

superT

iTrader: (1)

hey if you go back to page one of this post there are good pics and info that should get you moving along.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

aerospace components will sell you the adjustable rod end setup for 29.95. thats where i got mine from.
only vendor that will sell it seperate.
same goes with the aluminum adapter plate for the mopar/strange/wilwood master.
burkhart chassis or TRZ are the only outlets that offer the bracket singularly.

rod end 29.99+ship 41.00
adapter 60+ ship 71.00
mopar master 36.00
total of $148.00

car stops better than others i know using the strange and wilwood master.
some say it isnt correct, but the mopar master has much better pedal feel, and its aluminum too, so dont let fancy advertising fool you into buying a 100+ dollar master that will require you to run adapter fittings ($$).
the mopar is threaded and ready to take a 3/16 brake line. 3/8x24 inv flare.

Big, White & Sl

Cutting and rewelding the rod seems pretty sketchy to me. I don't think I'd want to trust my life to that, but what do I know. I spent the $$$ and bought the Burkhart kit. I sound like there's more than 1 way to skin thi cat, though.

superT

iTrader: (1)

well it being a little sketchy is way i put a second option about making one or in your case buying one from a company which is just fine. i personally am a little more old school and also have been taught how to weld by a welding professor at a college who is one of my friends, but not everyone has those resources and have to do it another way.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

i can weld, i still bought a rod. in other situations, id cut and weld anything.
a great tip would be to have a steel sleeve or tube spacer to go over the rod, then weld it on each side. much more safe than a but weld, and its still a cheap option.

Big, White & Sl

Don't get offended, I wasn't saying that you were sketchy. To me, that's jut something that's too critical to be welded on. That rod take a helluva lot of stress. A sleeve would work, but my theory is that I won't cut corners on anything safety related. That being said, the way you guys have attacked the rest of the swap is pretty impressive.

superT

iTrader: (1)

i didn't get offended, i was just agreeing with you that it could be a sketchy thing to do if not done right and what you said about this situation has truth in its own right. that is way i felt posting an option was needed because like you said someone might think doing it that way is "sketchy" or unsafe in their eyes.

Big, White & Sl

Just wanted to make sure.

primedtsi

Figured I would post this in here since ive been looking at all the threads/posts on everyones broad selection of manual master cylinder installations. Since the TRZ adapter is made for mopar style masters i figured these would come in handy -

1978 Dodge D 100 manual disc - 1 1/8 bore
1988 Dodge Diplomat - 1 1/32 bore
1989 Dodge Dakota - 15/16 bore

stage20

iTrader: (3)

ive always been told that the large bore will give you hard pedal, but stop like all hell, and a small bore will have a spongy pedal.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

All the cars i've raced that had too large of a bore for a manual brake set up had extremely hard pedal...two footing...and did'nt stop for crap, just flat out could'nt get enough pedal pressure to transmit line pressure to clamp the pads down...to say they were all scarey is an understatement.

red406

iTrader: (4)

I have been asked for the dimensions for the adapter a few times now, so I thought I would post up. I haven't gotten to the point in my project to bleed the brakes, but I think it should work.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

yup josh is 100% correct, I have to swap out my manual master this week for a smaller bored one. Two HEAVY foots on the pedal and barely stopping for the last turn around, definitely not something I felt comfortable on the street driving. Hoping this smaller bore setup will stop like Josh keeps bragging about. Guy at the speed shop told me I needed a 1-1/16" bore, josh that sound about right? Stock 4 wheel discs all around on the car.

AlkyIROC

I have no idea what the bore size is of my master cylinder. It's a GM aluminum master cylinder from an S10 that had manual brakes. I would assume it's smaller than a power assist master cylinder.

My front brakes are Aerospace drag racing disk and they're not very big by street car standards. My rear brakes are Ford 11 x 2-1/4 drums and I have no problems slowing down from 140+ mph. If I get real hard on the brakes, I can take the first turnoff and with moderate pressure, can easily slow down for the last turnoff.

If I pull the chute as I cross the finish line, moderate brake pressure can get me slow enough for the first turn

Over the winter, I may adapt and swap in a set of Ford Explorer rear disk brakes.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

buy a 30 dollar one from orielys and be done.
it doesnt even need a proportioning valve.

BarryM

iTrader: (1)

This is an excellent thread for info.

Has anyone found the need to use a brace similar to what is offered by Smith at the bottom of the page linked below?

http://www.smithperformance.com/cata...der%20Firewall

stage20

iTrader: (3)

i havent seen anything like that by another company.
i did see a guy that just had a tube nut welded to the shock tower with a bolt in it. the head of the bolt applied pressure to the face of the master clyinder.
pretty neat idea.
i may do something similar, as its easy access for welding.
i should have snapped a pic of it!

ronnyinwaxhaw

This is great info, I'm subscribing too!

camaropurestock

Im looking into running the s-10 set up in my race car. Since I have to use stock parts I am limited to using oem parts. If I used the s-10 master with the s-10 proportioning valve and installed the s-10 wheel cylinders in the back I should be good to go? I now they'll be some fab work on my end that fine and the rod end seems to work pretty good on the push rod? wanna make sure I get the right parts

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Should work good since you would basically be using a complete S10 system, as the front brakes systems on the third gens and s10's are all but identical. The rod end works great for me.

Curtisyz54

iTrader: (5)

Old thread but good. I want to do the Stange master cylinder with the 1 1/16th bore (the 1.032) But This is a street car. It not just a drag car, but I like the feal of manuel brakes. Would any of you guys recomend this?

red406

iTrader: (4)

My car is still in pieces, but I plan on driving it on the street. I'm sure alot of people drive theres on the street.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

stage20 street drives his car, as does IHI

IHI

iTrader: (1)

That's the one I have, and it works great street or strip

Curtisyz54

iTrader: (5)

Ok thanks guys. I figured its fine, but people keep telling me I dont want manuel brakes. but really I do.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Why, a properly set up system stops equally as good as a pwr brake set up, with no more force from the driver....it's just too many have no idea and ruin their own brake system by not matching components or picking size of components and then cry because the brakes suck....

no different than guys specing out their own camshaft, seems everybody wants to err themselves on the big side and the performance suffers.

Curtisyz54

iTrader: (5)

yeah, I got the idea from my dads 70 Duster with Manuel brakes, front disk, and I like them, They stop good. And he also has a 70 challenger with power brakes, and they are too goofy, they work, but I just dont like them, Iv never had a set of power brakes work good with a good cam, even if it has a vacuum canister.

Is your car 4 wheel disk?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it's a 4 wheel disc set up using stock metric calipers. I just bought a "rear kit" from the same company I bought the Ford 9" from. I installed a adjustible proportioning valve when I was redoing everything, but it's wide open, which is how I had it before since I gutted the factory one right away. So honestly I would save your money and not install one, Drag cars always have larger back tires in comparison to the fronts, so the fronts dont have as much contact patch to effectively stop without locking up, so you want to direct the larger rear tires to take up the difference.

One of those things I wish I'da done the day I got the car (convert to manual brakes) but back then I'd only ever driven cars that had terrible brake feel and terrible stopping pwr with manual set up's. Years later I started racing other's cars and got to see first hand manual brakes can indeed stop every bit as good as pwr set up's and still have almost no pedal effort.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I'm still trying to figure mine out Josh.... terrible brake performance and SUPER SUPER hard pedal. I don't get it.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

3/16" line up front? 1/4" going back?
certain ALL air is bled from system?
using rubber or braided to calipers?
bore of piston in M/C? I think I recall you called Strange so that should be good.
you raised the mounting point on the pedal arm?

obviously something is off if you got stiff pedal and bad brakes

Curtisyz54

iTrader: (5)

Are you using all stock lines?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

yes all new lines all around, 3/16 up front and 1/4" in the back. Air is ALL gone, thus the super stiff pedal. Went through bench bleeding it twice and gravity bleeding and that mighty master bleeder that forces the fluid out of the system. All braided lines to calipers, bore is 1 1/16", moved the mount up 1" approximately, possibly a smidge more. Brakes are factory disk all around, lt1 factory brakes on the rear. They worked awesome when I had power, now they are maybe 30% of what they used to do. Barely making the last turn off so I hate to drive the thing. Going to try another strange master, otherwise I have no idea.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Something is fishey, everything looks good component wise so if your not getting easy pedal and hard braking...I dunno, it's possible the MC is screwed up, but it'd be worth a call to strange and see what they think.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

ya I'm going to swap to the other one this week, but without the car having a motor in it I guess I won't really know Will at least know if the pedal gets easier and has more travel at least. Buddy recommended just tossing in a 89 dodge caravan manual master and said he had good results with that over the strange/wilwood ones.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

this is making me want to go ahead and set mine up when i tear everything out of the engine bay, a manual master looks so much cleaner. interested to see how your issues come out xpndbl3, thats the same brake setup i want to run

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

ya my car just hates me, we'll see what happens.