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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
Recently picked up a 1992 Camaro RS and it is my dedicated Race Car but I still want to keep it street ready, as I enjoy driving it and its pretty clean ride. Racing mostly in Autocross type events and Track soon, every now and again Drag Racing but not the main goal here. I have some ideas of what I want to do to it, biggest one being LS3 Engine Swap! But even so, I think reaching out to the 3rd Gen community would be a smart thing to do. Mostly for everyone's experience and advice so I can avoid unneeded headaches, and waste of time/money.
Which struts & shocks did you get?
Are you still running all stock brakes?
Tire sizes?
What other suspension upgrades have you done? (Besides lowering springs )
Have you done any lightening?
What performance upgrades have you done?
Rearend gear ratio?
Be a lot easier to make recommendations, after you answer these questions.
1. Struts and shocks BMR Recommend for the best hardcore experience are double adjustable by Vikings Shocks
2. Brakes are stock for now, planing on getting Moser rear axle with Wilwood discs for rear and match the fronts accordingly will do when suspension is complete.
3. Tires/wheels, looking to get 18" IROC replica wheels look really nice seen them on other C3 Camaros, tire size would come out to 245-40-18 all around.
4. Nothing yet other than the lowering springs, still waiting on the Struts and Shocks and BMR wants to take it step by step so I can provide them feedback. It will be a complete custom design from BMR replacing all components to include a Watts Link for Rear Axle to revamp their product line for these cars (really excited to be a part of that).
5. My weight saving level is novice lol any advice? I could eat less Still want the car to look stock interior and not tear it apart it is very clean.
6. Other than a meekly K&N Filter mostly cuz the one in there was dirty, nothing, want to invest in control before power. Plus ultimately want to do an LS3 Swap so didn't want to put money into the engine. Runs strong with 85k
7. As mentioned above looking to get a Moser rear end final drive will be 3.73.
Thank you for the interest in the car, its my first time doing this luckily I have some help, the hardest thing seems to be waiting for parts lol feel like Im gonna need a back up Race car
BMR makes great products.
If they don't offer a drop spindle, check out PAST Racing (that's who I bought mine from), ANOTHER great parts source for 3rd gen's. You'll want the drop spindles to correct the geometry of the front suspension, when you go to the 18's , as far as the rims & tires package goes... I like the look of the IROC-Z rims, but ,to get the best handling out of the car..... you're going to have to run a wider tire all around. Their are multiple rims available that both look good and allow for a better /wider tire, as well as bigger brakes. Look at BIG MODS car profile, he's a member here. Their are several different ways to upgrade the brakes as well, some guy's opt to convert to 4th gen brakes, some good with c5 Corvette brakes, ( in autoX/roadracing, you want to run the best brake package possible, in the short parking lot courses it may not be as pertinent, but in the longer road course stuff it will pay dividends ). SUBFRAME CONNECTORS ARE A MUST, weld-in is the best, but they do offer a bolt-in. Viking makes a good coilover, I hope that BMR has come up with a rear coilover kit, if not, Spohn & UMI PERFORMANCE has them. The Transmission tunnel mounted adjustable torque arm (has it's own Xmember & is shorter than the others available, I think will do the best, when combined with the watts link ).
As far as putting the car on a diet, anything that you do not have to have goes. This is different for everyone. Some of the things that I am getting rid of.... you're going to want to keep, so on & so forth. I'd strip out the interior, remove ALL of the sound deadening factory material, replace it with HushMat or similar products that have a thermal barrier, then put the stripped factory carpet back in. Go to a lighter seat with the harness openings for a 5 point harness ( the better seats will also help keep you planted/ keep you from sliding around on the seat assignments the car transitions through the turns).
Just a few points & I'm sure that other's here will chime in. .
Dont do a drop spindle unless it's a cast spindle. A fabricated one is going to be far too failure prone for street driving .Fine for race cars that get inspected regularly and drive on smooth race tracks meant for high speed driving, but on the street you're asking for problems. We are talking about a fabricated piece of steel welded together with multiple pieces and multiple welds that is supporting the entire weight of the car in all situations and loadings. There's a reason the factory piece is cast as one piece and there have been known issues with other fabricated spindles in the past. I am also skeptical of tubular k-members for this same basic reason.. just too complex, too many potential points of failure, too much load, and too integral to the function of the car - failures will be ugly. Again, fine for racecars that get reguilarly inspected.
A far better solution is a taller raised strut mount and extended ball joints. The only issue you have then is bump steer/tie rod geometry... which in my experience isnt that big of a deal. All taht stuff changes and shifts around with suspension movement and body roll anyway. You can get a 1 inch extended ball joint and a 1 inch extended strut mount, and that's an instant 1 inch drop. From there you can make minor tweaks... but it will function the same as a 1 inch drop spindle minus the tie rod geometry.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 03-29-2016 at 12:24 PM.
Infernal, the factory spindles are actually 2 piece, the spindle itself is pressed in it believe. PA Racing has an excellent track record (both on and off the track), that's why I chose them. But yes, I think that the extended strut mount & ball joints really do help. Who makes them ?
Didn't even have the spindles in mind, but when it comes to it I will see what BMR has to say. Yes bigger brakes are a must but since I will be upgrading the rear end it will be probably late this year. Don't know if you will be able to see the selected setup of this 12 Bolt Built to Order Rear End Package from Moser but here is the Link: **LINK START** http://www.moserengineering.com/comp...d-package.html **LINK END** It will come with rear disc brake upgrade and I will buy the matching fronts, I'm looking at about $2k on Brakes so by no means cutting corners (haha cutting corners that could be a race joke). I can think of one thing the spare tire, and now I'm stumped lol I will look into the door paneling as you suggested, old speakers from what I noticed tend to be very heavy.
UPDATE:
The front Vikings shocks were supposed to be a new product and they turned out they were specifically for drag cars, so I waited for nothing . So instead I'm going with a set of Koni Shocks Single Adjustable. BMR has them in stock I just gotta go get them now.
Ordered the IROC Replica Wheels, I realize the are only 8" wide (I wished they were wider, but I really like the look). No worries thou they will be my first set and until I can find something that screams awesome to me I will upgrade to wider wheels later with race tires and keep these IROC replicas as my street tire cruiser set.
Ordered Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R 245/40R18. From what I am told they are the best streetable tires for autox, low tread wear so until I get my brakes upgraded I can still swap to the stock wheels/tires for cruising and save the RE-71Rs for racing.
Look forward to posting some picture and videos soon. Thanks for the info, hope I can turn it into something soon!
Welcome! I will enjoy following your build. As you can see in my vB garage I've also been building a 92 RS. Started as a LO3/t5 also but I've always had 3.42 posi even though it was an open 3.08 car from the factory. Also like you, my build is focused on autoX/road racing performance. I still drive it on the street and occasionally go to the drag strip when my buddies go.
I agree with the guys above, you only really gained appearance with those IROC wheels since you're staying with a 245 tire. Not saying buying them was a mistake, with good tires it may be an improvement but you could have gained the same by putting better tires on you 16x8's. I love the look of the 18" IROCs. If I were you, I would run them for a while until you can get a better set of race wheels, then put street tires on them and use them on the street and save your track tires.
Also like the others said, look at other thirdgen autoX/RR builds. You will notice NONE of them use a front coil over. Weight jacks are the front spring of choice autoX/RR thirdgens. Be wary of any salesman that tries to sell you front coil overs. You'll be happy with the Konis. They are the strut/shock of choice. Theres only so many ways to do a suspension and there are only so many products to choose from, don't get hung up if your the 100th guy to run Konis and weight jacks, it's a proven set up.
One thing I REALLY want to impress on you is to know your local organization's rules and classifications before you mod the car. You don't want to mod yourself into a class you can't even compete in. Sometimes I wish I would have finished everything else (suspension, brakes, and good race wheels and tires) before I LS swapped. I had enough mods in the suspension I was able to beat many "superior" cars like 5thgen SS or 5.0 with the LO3, even on a larger track because I can carry more corner speed. Yes, they'd pull on me in the straights but I'd catch them in the corners. And that was only with my front suspension done. It was fun being an underdog, now with the LS1 everyone expects me to be fast. With the LO3, anytime I didn't lose was impressive! lol
Yes.... for both (installed & as it sits).
How's the ride on the street?
I'm building a street car, that I can run autoX/ open roadrace. Handling is more important than the ride, but would like to be able to drive cross country without needing a kidney belt. ...
The stock wheel/tire was 16x7.5/235, true my setup is mostly appearance but I'm still going to a 18x8/245 gaining a tad bit of tread plus those RE-71Rs should prove to be quite lethal
I was testing the fitment, still need my shocks and alignment before installing.
Will be doing exactly what you mentioned once I have more power will be looking for a wider setup with race tires and keeping these as cruiser wheels/tires.
As for competition I mostly do this for the fun and building the car, will be doing the engine very last as it runs too well to replace anytime soon. When I got it it only has 82k I just rolled into 85k. However between me and 3 other friends we want to build a competition car, maybe starting that next year.
Like your signature, good, fast and cheap. I will be building my car good and slow, it wont be cheap but it will be fast when its done.
Infernal, the factory spindles are actually 2 piece, the spindle itself is pressed in it believe. PA Racing has an excellent track record (both on and off the track), that's why I chose them. But yes, I think that the extended strut mount & ball joints really do help. Who makes them ?
A LOT of people think fabricated K-members are an acceptable risk. In most cases, they probably are. Just a personal call. I like PA Racing a lot.
But GM spindles are made through a very unique, very strong process that's far, far different from the fabricated spindles that are available. Its pretty much impossible to remove the spindle shaft from the cast spindle piece without completely destroying it. It is a very, very strong joining method that GM used that is nearly impossible to repllicate without the equipment a large manufacturing company has access to.
I agree with that.
In my case, I have to run a 19" rim package to clear the brakes... this creates a necessity for the drop spindles. I spoke with Jason (?)at PA Racing, about it & he assured me that he's not had a failure from the type of use I have in mind. In fact he could only recall 1 or 2 total & they were bent in wrecks. .. they work as a plug-in play (accepts all stock parts ), so that is why I mentioned them to the OP.
Yes.... for both (installed & as it sits).
How's the ride on the street?
I'm building a street car, that I can run autoX/ open roadrace. Handling is more important than the ride, but would like to be able to drive cross country without needing a kidney belt. ...
Keep in mind, I just installed the rears but haven't driven it yet. I installed 850# fronts spring of 2013. Loved the way it road and handled but needed more so I upgraded to 1000# fronts spring of 2015. Car handled amazing for having modified front suspension and worn stock rear suspension.
I have no complaints about ride quality. Yes it's a stiff ride but it doesn't turn normal bumps into harsh bumps. I'd say it makes a harsh bump harsher though. The car will follow the ups and downs in the road, actually a very smooth feeling ride. I could drive this car anywhere.
I have a pic on my profile. Click on my name in the top left corner of this post and select view profile. that is with the fronts in. Car has come a LOOONNNGG way since that pic was taken. You can set the ride height wherever you want with weight jacks, so a picture of what the car looks like with them in is really irrelevant.
Cool, thanks.
Currently I have Eibach pro lowering springs (new, not installed ) & KYB shocks and struts ( new, not installed ) as well as UMI tubular k member and control arms ( new , not installed ) & PA Racing 2" drop spindles ( new, not installed ) with 14" drilled & slotted rotors (1.31" thick, veined, new, not installed ) with 6 piston calipers ( wilwood, new not installed ).... oh and an old, but never used BMR swaybar for the front.
So, as you can see, I have a lot of stuff to do LOL....BUT, since I have not been able to get started & have been told by several people ( including you ) , that the weight jack setup is the way to go. ... thinking that I should look into it.
Plum92,
The stock wheel/tire was 16x7.5/235, true my setup is mostly appearance but I'm still going to a 18x8/245 gaining a tad bit of tread plus those RE-71Rs should prove to be quite lethal
Btw got any pictures of your car?
Stock tire size for an IROC or 91-92 Z28 was 245/50R16 and the same 16x8 wheels that came on the RS except the RS got 235/55R16. You did gain tire selection by going to 18". Potenzas are a nice tire, given the nature of your build I just expected you to go wider. I have considered the 18" IROC's with BFG Rivals but decided if I bought wheels I was going wider. I now have 17x9 polished ZR1's. They came with some cheap Z rated tires on them (wheels and tires were used). I plan to finish off my 255/50R16 Toyo R888s on my stock wheels and then upgrade the tires on the ZR1's to 275/40R17 Toyo R1Rs. One day I hope to go 18x11 with 315's all around.
Pic in profile. As up to date of picture as I have. Done a lot of work since then but it looks the same on the outside. No pics with ZR1's yet, car hasn't touched the ground yet with them. lol
I hear you, I've got a set of Epsilon 16's on the car now, but have some ok 19's with BFG KDW T/A's. .. just waiting to get all of the suspension & brakes swapped out to put the 19's on. Only 255/30's on front & 295/30's for the back . ( got a good deal on them & they'll clear the big *** brakes ), eventually, when I can afford it going 19x10/ 305/30/19 & 19x12.5/ 345/30/19 (Niche Citrine 3 piece & Nitto Invo).
Cool, thanks.
Currently I have Eibach pro lowering springs (new, not installed ) & KYB shocks and struts ( new, not installed ) as well as UMI tubular k member and control arms ( new , not installed ) & PA Racing 2" drop spindles ( new, not installed ) with 14" drilled & slotted rotors (1.31" thick, veined, new, not installed ) with 6 piston calipers ( wilwood, new not installed ).... oh and an old, but never used BMR swaybar for the front.
So, as you can see, I have a lot of stuff to do LOL....BUT, since I have not been able to get started & have been told by several people ( including you ) , that the weight jack setup is the way to go. ... thinking that I should look into it.
Sounds like you got some great stuff! I bet those brakes were a pretty penny! If you do upgrade to weight jacks, also upgrade to konis. If you don't want to go adjustable struts and shocks, at least get bilstiens. Even with the eibachs you could gain with the Konis or bilstiens.
I almost did the UMI RR kmember and a-arms. I learned that they only help with weight and free up more space, not any stronger than stock. Due to budget reasons, they were cut early from the LS swap list.
Check out your local autoX rules to see how that BMR sway bar effects your class. Stock sway bars function as well as aftermarket, really only a weight difference. Of course, if the BMR is bigger than your stock and it doesn't effect your race class, by all means, RUN IT!! and use poly links and bushings on your sway bars.
Make sure you check out InfernalVortex's car too. He's got a great set up. Great person to get advice from.
Yes, we've bumped head's & collaborated a couple of times. .lol. He seems pretty cool & knowledgeable.
How much did the weight jack setup cost? Does it replace the spring or add to it?
Yes, we've bumped head's & collaborated a couple of times. .lol. He seems pretty cool & knowledgeable.
How much did the weight jack setup cost? Does it replace the spring or add to it?
$500 almost on the dot. It replaces the spring. I would buy this kit if I were buying them today. Weight Jacks and Konis are the way to go, plus it includes an adjustable panhard bar. http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=966/CA=180
It helps to know what spring rates you want when you call. Also know if you want 3rd or 4th gen rear shocks.
Personal suggestion, only adjust the fronts up. Going down can loosen the bolt. Easy fix though, take measurements of the adjusters so you can reset the ride height in one shot, just remove, re-locktite the bolt and re-install.
The rears are not as long as stock springs, always lift the rear by the axle.
My car had drums stock so the build sheet for the Moser rear end give you disc options from wilwood and I just took what they are using and matched up the front. Called wilwood to confirm its the set in the link below.
My car had drums stock so the build sheet for the Moser rear end give you disc options from wilwood and I just took what they are using and matched up the front. Called wilwood to confirm its the set in the link below.
I'd like to see at least a 13-13.25" rotor up front, JMO.
I'm upgrading to 14" rotors & 6 piston calipers, on all four corners of mine... I stepped up to 19" rim/tire package to accommodate the brakes.
The setup I have, isn't made any longer. But, you can look up Rotora brakes ,they have systems up to 16" diameter. There's plenty of companies that have brake upgrades available. My calipers are Wilwood, but I think that the rotors are from someone else... DAMN, it's been awhile since I last looked at them, lol
03-14-2016, 08:11 PM
Recently picked up a 1992 Camaro RS and it is my dedicated Race Car but I still want to keep it street ready, as I enjoy driving it and its pretty clean ride. Racing mostly in Autocross type events and Track soon, every now and again Drag Racing but not the main goal here. I have some ideas of what I want to do to it, biggest one being LS3 Engine Swap! But even so, I think reaching out to the 3rd Gen community would be a smart thing to do. Mostly for everyone's experience and advice so I can avoid unneeded headaches, and waste of time/money.
or 
Still want the car to look stock interior and not tear it apart it is very clean.
Thank you for the interest in the car, its my first time doing this luckily I have some help, the hardest thing seems to be waiting for parts lol feel like Im gonna need a back up Race car 
. So instead I'm going with a set of Koni Shocks Single Adjustable. BMR has them in stock I just gotta go get them now.
.... enjoy the ride, that is the most important part of it. 
