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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
It was always a goal and this year I gave the car a once over and took it to a local HPDE. Was the most fun ive had in a long while. Best rush was walking away passing a modern 5th gen SS and 6th gen SS 1LE along with a couple later m3s.
Car was excellent, no brake fade with minimal overheat arising once I learned the track and began pushing instead of coasting. Got lots of encouragement and a big smile seeing the limits of the car. I have a few bolt ons planned to help with keeping the car bulletproof. SBC, Wonderbar, Wizard rad kit, and some direct replacement GTS II Corbeau's (to keep bruises off my legs).
I have done some reading and will be pushing the camber/caster limits for my next session next month. BFG Gforce comp 2s bit well, but not enough camber/pressure and overdriving lead to scrub overlapping past the shoulder. Will make some minor improvements and focus on refining my driving to get the most from the car without overloading the front end.
The 305 ran well but lost ~15% due to high temps. Made sure to cool down when it started to be serious but felt the loss in power to heat soak. Mercury is finally starting to fall on after an exceptionally humid summer, looking forward to my next session!
For anyone else out there on the fence about an HPDE day, bite the bullet and commit. Easily the most fun you can have and the instructors are exceptional at letting you dictate the speed and learning pace.
That looks like a blast. I have those same seats and love them. The only thing i dont like is the brackets that corbeau sells for them, they will raise the seat a good 2 inches. But the brackets are pretty easy to re work if needed.
That looks like a blast. I have those same seats and love them. The only thing i dont like is the brackets that corbeau sells for them, they will raise the seat a good 2 inches. But the brackets are pretty easy to re work if needed.
Would be interested to know what you did you make them work. Really hoping to keep a similar cushion height to stock. If you have pics id really appreciate it.
Thanks for the kind words, was an amazing experience. Definitely got me into the rabbit hole of tracking the car.
Congrats on a great day at the track.
The safest and least expensive lap time improvement you can make is investing in driver improvement.
This book really helped me while I was learning car control at the AX for 2 years before I went to a dedicated race track. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/....Going_Faster_
Would be interested to know what you did you make them work. Really hoping to keep a similar cushion height to stock. If you have pics id really appreciate it.
Thanks for the kind words, was an amazing experience. Definitely got me into the rabbit hole of tracking the car.
I unfortunately do not have any pics at the moment. There may be and easier way to do it, but what i did was cut the appropriate amount off the feet/pads off the corbeau brackets and took flat stock metal, and welded it at the correct height. You might be able to adapt your factory brackets to the seat easier. I had already sold my factory seats and sliders so i wasnt able to check for that option.
Congrats on a great day at the track.
The safest and least expensive lap time improvement you can make is investing in driver improvement.
This book really helped me while I was learning car control at the AX for 2 years before I went to a dedicated race track. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/....Going_Faster_
I unfortunately do not have any pics at the moment. There may be and easier way to do it, but what i did was cut the appropriate amount off the feet/pads off the corbeau brackets and took flat stock metal, and welded it at the correct height. You might be able to adapt your factory brackets to the seat easier. I had already sold my factory seats and sliders so i wasnt able to check for that option.
Hmm. I know the seats are offered with 1inch shaved cushions. Worst case I get them modified. Crossing my fingers
Hmm. I know the seats are offered with 1inch shaved cushions. Worst case I get them modified. Crossing my fingers
Ha, I wish i would have know that when i ordered mine. I would have defiantly went that route. I ordered mine from summit racing, so that is most likely why. It defiantly wouldnt hurt to order them with that option, may save you the headache of modifying the brackets.
Figured id share since i just found out about them over the weekend. But there is also a company called Wedge brackets that makes brackets for corbeau and recaros seats, but with sliders they are supposed to only be 3 inches in height. so they are about half the height of the corbeau brackets. they are a little more expensive than the corbeau brackets, but probably worth it if you dont want to mess with modifying anything. http://wedgebrackets.com/chevrolet-c...-brackets.html
The seats and brackets turned out to be several inches higher than stock. I got the brackets cut down about an inch and I'm working on lining up an upholstery guy to shave my seats. I think the 2" total reduction should put me at or slightly shorter than stock. Im sure getting locked in with the new seats and belts will make life that much better.
I've made it out to the track again, I've been working on refining the limit and trying to get the most out of the tires. I'm still often on the aggressive side of the slip curve but I'm starting to feel the sweet spot. Just enough rotation to help point the car and ease understeer. I couldn't keep the comp2s from eating sidewalls. I downsized to 225/50/16 falken rt615k+ and have had better luck. I get 2 good laps before they begin to overheat. I'm new to the game and tire management sure is an art of its own.
Here's a few pics from my last day
A thirdgen isn't a Miata but it's sure fun to commit it like one
Looks like your having fun - and that's why we're here. Glad you got the seats working. i have a pair of reclining Corbeau's on sliders in my IROC and they are better than stock, but not ideal for me. I'm going to a 1 piece halo-style racing seat that fits as close to perfect as i can get. My car is street legal but only drives on the track. I've been running the Toyo Proxes RR 245-45-16 for a couple seasons now. They are a great tire but still very undersized, I'm surprised you to went to a 225. Our cars need massive amounts of neg Camber and 40+ psi of air pressure on track. I run -5 deg -2.5 and 38-44 psi in mine. Back in the day, GM released a document to modify the strut housing to gain more neg camber while still appearing stock and not violate the rules for the Players cars - essentially they showed you where to make the strut mounting hole into a sideways oval to gain more neg camber.
Tire Nerd Edit: the load rating is a consideration; the 225/50's you put on have a load rating of 1389 lbs, the OEM 245/50's are 1609lb (speed rating is different as well). The 225's are going away after a couple laps because yes - you are over heating them, BUT they are being physically abused and can't handle the loads the heavy car is putting on them, so they heat up quickly and break down just as fast.
Have you considered going to an Ontario Time Attack event?
-Matt
Last edited by RoadRace; 05-23-2019 at 09:23 PM.
Reason: added tire load text. amended camber typo
Looks like your having fun - and that's why we're here. Glad you got the seats working. i have a pair of reclining Corbeau's on sliders in my IROC and they are better than stock, but not ideal for me. I'm going to a 1 piece halo-style racing seat that fits as close to perfect as i can get. My car is street legal but only drives on the track. I've been running the Toyo Proxes RR 245-45-16 for a couple seasons now. They are a great tire but still very undersized, I'm surprised you to went to a 225. Our cars need massive amounts of neg Camber and 40+ psi of air pressure on track. I run -5 deg and 38-44 psi in mine. Back in the day, GM released a document to modify the strut housing to gain more neg camber while still appearing stock and not violate the rules for the Players cars - essentially they showed you where to make the strut mounting hole into a sideways oval to gain more neg camber.
Tire Nerd Edit: the load rating is a consideration; the 225/50's you put on have a load rating of 1389 lbs, the OEM 245/50's are 1609lb (speed rating is different as well). The 225's are going away after a couple laps because yes - you are over heating them, BUT they are being physically abused and can't handle the loads the heavy car is putting on them, so they heat up quickly and break down just as fast.
Have you considered going to an Ontario Time Attack event?
-Matt
Thanks Matt, I appreciate the information! I'm still very new to tracking the car and looking to learn. I went with 225s partially due to low cost and more brands available. I can get the 615kt+ for 155 CAD each including install. I had the comp2s and they felt too soft on sidewall, I figured getting a section width closer to rim width would help with the deformation I'm experiencing. I ran 42/40 f/r hot. Glad to see I'm not as crazy as some people said I was for running high pressures. I think I'm just too aggressive at the moment, but I'm starting to really get a good feel for turning the car with the pedals. From here my next step will be to focus on consistency.
What mods have you done to achieve such high camber? I'm maxed at -1.75 deg. I will for sure look into the mod you mentioned. It really doesnt help me how abrasive the local track surface is. Currently I cant make a set last more than 6 x 30min sessions.
I want to get into proper motorsports but I think that will be next year. There's a quasi race series at my local track Calabogie. The GT3 class runs bracket times and I'm about 1sec away from being very competitive. It has restrictive passing rules which suits me fine since my car is still an uncaged street car. Time attack sounds cool, it would depend on what the minimum requirements were.
To aid in consistency with your driving, practice slow release off the brakes and always take exit speed over entry speed; meaning that it's better to go a little slower into a corner if it means you will come out faster. I like to use the Track Addict app for my phone to monitor corner speeds and braking zones after a session, its a great little data system for free. in fact i liked it so much i paid the money for the full version. its a good tool.
Re: alignment, i slotted the upper strut mounts and did the GM mod. i used to have the diagram but can't find it. it was easy, just slot the upper hole 1/4" to lean the wheel in.
i run at Gimli, MB. The track surface is not in great shape, much exposed aggregate and tire wear is high. We just re-paved a couple corners so the tire wear is not as a bad now, your tire wear is not abnormal for a poor track surface like you described. i am going to run the R888R and a 275-40-17 this year. lap times are reportedly much better with the bigger tire.
You should be able to get to -2 easily with just aftermarket caster camber plates. We run the UMI version and get -2.25 before hitting the brake master cylinder. It would also be worth your time to find a 17x9 wheel and move up to a 275/40/17 (or bigger if you want). We run -2 camber and 7 caster with 315/30/18 tires on all 4 corners. Car will pull close to 2 g in sweepers with that setup. It sees 1.7 regularly. Improve the car gradually as your skill improves. We spent about 5 years getting to the point where the driver was better than the car. Now that we don't have that issue, we've been running tracks like Daytona and having a blast with the road course there.
Appreciate the info. I have umi strut mounts on the car. I'll have to look into finding more on the GM mod. I'm still at stock ride height with whatever sag the suspension has from the years. I'm not sure what I want to do with the car yet but for now it's fun to wring every last bit of speed from it.
I know what you mean with brake release. Im working on that at the moment to tune my turn in and help the mid corner behaviour by getting more turning done early for the slower corners.
I've got it pretty close but working on getting more precision. Also I've been playing with predicting understeer and letting the push happen for the quick corners and just nose in a bit ealier so I drift onto line. I'm still enjoying honing my car control. Gained a bunch of confidence in the rain recently planning a slide instead of waiting for one. The rain really clued me into controlling the attitude of the car and how much I can dictate the handling of the car.
I want to get back to Mosport this year I've seen some old YouTube videos and it would be great to compare times for fun.
Funny track addict is mentioned I got turned onto it at my last lapping event. Pretty cool to have a time to yardstick a lap by. I've been using rpm on exit till now but it will be a huge boon to help with my consistency.
I'm not sure what pads, they aren't super aggressive. I'll check when I'm home at the end of the week. I've noticed the rears do maybe 20% of the dusting the fronts do. I've looked into the prop valve spring mod but I've heard it's easy to get into wheel hop.
Ive been told I'm better than the car, but I feel there is still lots of good lessons to learn. I'm at a crossroads when it comes to upgrading due to its rarity but at the same time it's far from a perfect specimen. Plus it survived my 20s with me, so at this point we're like Hann and the falcon.
2g is amazing! I bet that thing is a monster haha. I'm hoping we could get a track meet going one day. I bet there's all kinds of stories and secrets out there.
I know a track tire will handle loads and heat better but I'm worried that it would be too much tire for the car. Stock t5, 10bolt and stamped panhard etc all in the car. I have a reliable car that I maintain well. Don't want to break things just to go 3-4 sec faster.
Maybe you guys have tried stock stuff on more serious tires?
i just re-read my first post and corrected it - i forgot the 2 in 2.5 for camber!! SMH...
"I'm not sure what pads, they aren't super aggressive. I'll check when I'm home at the end of the week. I've noticed the rears do maybe 20% of the dusting the fronts do. I've looked into the prop valve spring mod but I've heard it's easy to get into wheel hop."
i had no problem with wheel hop until i found the limit with race tires. Then it shook the **** out the car, back-end was all over the place under braking - almost un-drivable. i run a tilton prop valve WITH the oem prop valve to restrict the rears. Then i put the cheapest crap pads in the rear and Hawk Blue's in the front. After i did that it was a different car, way more stable in threshold braking and predicatible. Now i am switching to the Gen6 Camaro SS front brakes and 275/40-17's. Hoping to get good results. I'm running this weekend on the OEM 1LE set up, then its all coming off and Gen6 Brembos are going on the front for the June event.
like Beater79TA says - get the 275/17's sooner than later, its the single biggest improvement you can make.
OTA is on the GP track at Mosport June 29 or 30. if you get there, take pics, get a buddy to set up on the hill and get the same angle GM used for the Advertising in the Players series, that would be sweet!!!
i just re-read my first post and corrected it - i forgot the 2 in 2.5 for camber!! SMH...
"I'm not sure what pads, they aren't super aggressive. I'll check when I'm home at the end of the week. I've noticed the rears do maybe 20% of the dusting the fronts do. I've looked into the prop valve spring mod but I've heard it's easy to get into wheel hop."
i had no problem with wheel hop until i found the limit with race tires. Then it shook the **** out the car, back-end was all over the place under braking - almost un-drivable. i run a tilton prop valve WITH the oem prop valve to restrict the rears. Then i put the cheapest crap pads in the rear and Hawk Blue's in the front. After i did that it was a different car, way more stable in threshold braking and predicatible. Now i am switching to the Gen6 Camaro SS front brakes and 275/40-17's. Hoping to get good results. I'm running this weekend on the OEM 1LE set up, then its all coming off and Gen6 Brembos are going on the front for the June event.
like Beater79TA says - get the 275/17's sooner than later, its the single biggest improvement you can make.
OTA is on the GP track at Mosport June 29 or 30. if you get there, take pics, get a buddy to set up on the hill and get the same angle GM used for the Advertising in the Players series, that would be sweet!!!
Matt
I dont have any race license which i believe is needed for OTA, but ill be there sometime this year with drivetec for lapping. I got these pics last year when I first experienced the mosport and what driving in the rain on the track entails.
Yeah id love to see what a big wheel/tire setup feels like. Going from 245 to 225 was huge in how crisp and responsive the car felt. I've read some of your posts and I've had people come up to me asking incredulously "dont you get wheel hop?". Ive also read some of Qwktrip's posts and he mentions the later years got a reduced rear engagement by design vs the low-mid 80s. Ive also heard that running all rear factory wheels was a trick to take advantage of the extra track width. Interestingly, even on a beat up track like mosport, the benefits seem to outweigh the scrub considerations.
I'll see what the future brings. I want to check out some amateur stuff. OTA sounds cool but unfortunately I missed my window to get a cascor license for this year
Been slowly chopping away time, here's a recent action shot. Been hitting the local karting track a bit. That has been helpful to refine some skills and experiment with.
For our endurance car, a huge step up was more tire.
We started on 16s as well, but making the jump to 275.40.17s gave us more grip and made them less prone to overheating when pushed hard. The falken is a good choice for this because even when they do get greasy they 'come back' pretty quick after a few easy corners. Some tires take laps to come back.
We did bolt on spacers in the front and 4th gen rear axle (and run vette rims), but you could also get a set of the CTW 17s and they'd bolt right on.
09-19-2018, 07:43 PM
