Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016
T-Trim, custom brackets
Last edited by anesthes; 09-03-2016 at 07:28 AM.
#2
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
It'll be interesting to see how you go about this.
I've been thinking about going the blower route myself (in my quest for 11's in a 3600lb street chassis) and will be watching your progress.
Question: Intercooler?
I've been thinking about going the blower route myself (in my quest for 11's in a 3600lb street chassis) and will be watching your progress.
Question: Intercooler?
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Joe, Justin (Munks) was very successful running the Vortech with an enclosed carburetor (see vid below), making around the horsepower that you're shooting for. I remember when I was contemplating running a blow-thru years back, ran into a guy over at the track who was running a Vortech w/carb enclosure and vacuum secondaries if you can believe it, and worked like a charm. Took me for a ride around the pit area, and I was floored how well it worked with the vacuum secondaries. But that of course is on the cheaper side of things, if your going to go CSU, then run a carb hat no doubt...
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
You are right, but you guys seem to think I'm going to try and run it all out.
I have a 2 bolt main 400 block.. This thing will absolutely f'n explode at more than 700hp or so. Heck, I the crank might fall out of the block at 700hp... I'm going to run the blower underdriven way in it's efficient zone.
I'm not trying to run 9s.. I wanna run around 125-130mph in the 1/4. I could technically do that with a T-trim, but why not run an oversized blower pullied efficiently.
If it sucks ***, I'll trade it in for a smaller blower.
-- Joe
I have a 2 bolt main 400 block.. This thing will absolutely f'n explode at more than 700hp or so. Heck, I the crank might fall out of the block at 700hp... I'm going to run the blower underdriven way in it's efficient zone.
I'm not trying to run 9s.. I wanna run around 125-130mph in the 1/4. I could technically do that with a T-trim, but why not run an oversized blower pullied efficiently.
If it sucks ***, I'll trade it in for a smaller blower.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
Youve got 400+ cubes, great heads, and a 1100hp capable blower. Its hard for me to imagine NOT wanting 9's. You could g 8s with that combo if you wanted.... lol. Just a block away.
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Yep. I have a couple of vortech plates, 3/8" thick. (stock are like 1/4").
Gonna weld up a spacer/mount to bolt it to the head. The big question is will it fit between the motor and the shock tower.
I have a 6" 10rib crank pulley and spacer. Probably run a 3" blower pulley which will put me at 41k rpm. 58k is max on this blower, and 50k is efficient max.
I'm probably going to switch to v-belts so I don't have to incorporate some crazy spring loaded tensioner for my accessories.
If all goes well, I'll probably hook up my 50MM wastegate to the blower and control it with my Megasquirt. That way I can control boost if I decide to pulley it more aggressively. Imagine a flat 12-14psi from 2k to redline.. That would be cool!
-- Joe
Gonna weld up a spacer/mount to bolt it to the head. The big question is will it fit between the motor and the shock tower.
I have a 6" 10rib crank pulley and spacer. Probably run a 3" blower pulley which will put me at 41k rpm. 58k is max on this blower, and 50k is efficient max.
I'm probably going to switch to v-belts so I don't have to incorporate some crazy spring loaded tensioner for my accessories.
If all goes well, I'll probably hook up my 50MM wastegate to the blower and control it with my Megasquirt. That way I can control boost if I decide to pulley it more aggressively. Imagine a flat 12-14psi from 2k to redline.. That would be cool!
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I think we both know I'm going to blow it up eventually.. I have about as much self control as a fat kid in a chinese buffet..
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
sweet. should move some air. need to work through how to pull cold air into the blower intake if you have space down low to run a 5" intake pipe and filter. mine is on the driver's side and the power steering pump is in the way.
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
You've got a radiator hose in the way so you are limitted in how wide of a pulley/cog you can go,
You've got brake booster and MC in the way so you can't run your intake tube into the fender.
You've got 90% of your accessories on one side of the motor, so you are loading your crank snout all in one direction.
By running the blower on the passenger side you have a lot more room for cold(er) intake ducting, plus if you run the battery on the drivers side you can stick an air/water intercooler in the passenger battery tray. Clock the housing so you turn 45 or 90* into the IC, then come out of the IC (top) and turn into the throttle body.
The only thing you have to relocate is the coolant overflow tank.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Originally Posted by anesthes
Was at the track last night (street night). Saw a hatchback, 4cyl, fwd thing run 147mph in the quarter. Holy crap!
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I must have been drinking when I gasket matched this intake cuz it's a perfect 1205.
Not enough material to cover the 1206. In fact, the gasket had slid down a little bit into the runner of the head as it was. It needed to be brought back up.
So.. I dunno.
-- Joe
Not enough material to cover the 1206. In fact, the gasket had slid down a little bit into the runner of the head as it was. It needed to be brought back up.
So.. I dunno.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Also risk of warping it when welding.
I dunno.
Thinking about what to do.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
take apicture of ur intake side wanna see how different it is from mine and the other recently purchased one , i posted pics witht he measurements in another thread and there was enough to go 1206
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Intake either needs to be welded, or I need to stick a victor jr on it and a carb
Actually, I've been looking at the quad injector 4150 throttle bodies lately. Kinda pricey, but I bet having the spray in the intake stream would work great with forced induction.
I don't wanna go back to a singelplane EFI intake, because all of the 1206 capable intakes are 6" tall, which gives me hood clearance issues.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Not possible. I can fit a .005" feeler between the roof of the runner in the head and the intake. That's why I cut that gasket, to see what the mis-alignment was. The very top of the AFR 210 port is in the bottom of the blue.
-- Joe
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
holy crap was that intake cut
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Here is what I think happened. The kid I bought it off of probably had issues with it hitting the valve covers. (I've seen a few complaints). He probably had the sides cut down a hair. or a few hairs.
I dunno. I may sell it and go a different route.
-- Joe
I dunno. I may sell it and go a different route.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
yup ur intake was ground or milled
compared to the second intake i bought look how much wider mine is then yours , mine doesnt have the bevel cut on the top
compared to the second intake i bought look how much wider mine is then yours , mine doesnt have the bevel cut on the top
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
There isnt another route (unless buy another china copy that is 1206 if they do infact come 1206) if you cant get a single plane to fit and a blow thru carb isnt gonna help either with the hat, thats no different than a single plane.
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
there is just enough room to do 1206 on an untouched china intake , unfortunatly they have been on backorder for some time now
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
yeah as far as i know they are still not available but i havent checked jegs or speedmaster lately to see if they are back in stock
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
A vic jr 1206 is under 5" tall.
I've got a ram air 1 hood, which I believe is a 2 " or so cowl. I'd have to measure again but. It would work with a turbonetics hat, or even a low profile ATI hat.
I'm really thinking about trying one of those EZ style throttle bodies with 4 90lb injectors, but they are $700..
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Maybe they are not making them anymore.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I would not advise that injection. Its no better than tbi. Shower injectors high up in runner like that do tend to work well for peak hp in complex efi systems but those systems also have port injectors. They dont run well everywhere else so thats why the port injectors are there
I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi
Have a vic jr converted to efi
I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi
Have a vic jr converted to efi
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I would not advise that injection. Its no better than tbi. Shower injectors high up in runner like that do tend to work well for peak hp in complex efi systems but those systems also have port injectors. They dont run well everywhere else so thats why the port injectors are there
I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi
Have a vic jr converted to efi
I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi
Have a vic jr converted to efi
But a wet intake is ideal with forced induction over a dry batch fire intake.
Sequential injection would be the best, but I'm not running sequential port injection.
I'd love to see some dyno testing though.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-CFM-415...BWHYK2&vxp=mtr
cheap
they do need a few mods though for good driveability
cheap
they do need a few mods though for good driveability
Last edited by project89; 10-19-2015 at 08:49 AM.
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
The TBI with the pod in the middle causes airflow issues.
But a wet intake is ideal with forced induction over a dry batch fire intake.
Sequential injection would be the best, but I'm not running sequential port injection.
I'd love to see some dyno testing though.
-- Joe
But a wet intake is ideal with forced induction over a dry batch fire intake.
Sequential injection would be the best, but I'm not running sequential port injection.
I'd love to see some dyno testing though.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Ever notice that the TBI and CARB blow through guys always seem to get away with more boost without intercoolers?
Also why OEM started going to composite intake manifolds, to combat air temp in port EFI.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
It depends on the fuel. Carb guys on pump gas still cant run alot of boost. E85 is an alcohol that has high heat latency and can cool charge effectively so the blow thru guys do well on that stuff. Efi guys run well with it too without coolers. Wet flow cools but how well cant be determined easily because nobody has a temp sensor in the head runner before the valve to know whats goin into chamber
I'll take efi driveability tuning over any tbi or blowthru system
And composite manifolds may be cheaper and easier to produce vs aluminum. I dont buy the argument 100% that they do it for efi intake airtemps. If they did worry about air temps some of the oems would make better effort on air intake box and filter locations.... I have seen some oem filters picking up heater heat and seein 170 deg at idle
I'll take efi driveability tuning over any tbi or blowthru system
And composite manifolds may be cheaper and easier to produce vs aluminum. I dont buy the argument 100% that they do it for efi intake airtemps. If they did worry about air temps some of the oems would make better effort on air intake box and filter locations.... I have seen some oem filters picking up heater heat and seein 170 deg at idle
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
oem does it for cost and wieght savings
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Injector at the top of the runner, or 3" away at the top of the flange doesn't matter. It's still EFI.
Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.
I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.
Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.
-- Joe
Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.
I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.
Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Injector at the top of the runner, or 3" away at the top of the flange doesn't matter. It's still EFI.
Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.
I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.
Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.
-- Joe
Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.
I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.
Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.
-- Joe
The build now depends on your intake since the current one will not seal properly. Balancing clearance issues with functionality with efi system as well as cost is the issue with most builds
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
Not when you are firing the injector at a closed intake valve...
Now with that said, I'm probably going to tig the manifold and send it out to get milled since that's the cheapest option and I just want to finish this POS so I can work on one of my corvettes.
-- Joe
Now with that said, I'm probably going to tig the manifold and send it out to get milled since that's the cheapest option and I just want to finish this POS so I can work on one of my corvettes.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I can tig the intake tonight, and probably spend $100 getting it milled. This is assuming it doesn't melt when I hit it with the torch...
Or I can sell the AFR210s and go back to 195 heads, but that's probably not a great idea.
-- Joe
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016
I don't like using epoxy. Used it on a lot of boats years ago. Sometimes were successful, sometimes it would come off.
-- Joe