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Supercharging the 383 FIRST TPI

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Old 08-10-2017, 11:41 AM   #51
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Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: Twin Turbo 401
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Re: Supercharging the 383 FIRST TPI

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Originally Posted by gbayfisher View Post
Orr.

Didnt mean to say that it was different in theory, but in actual tuning, i did find getting the timing curve with the peaky power band of the First difficult ( for me at least) , but that could have been more of an issue with my intake/cam combo than anything else, something about it just wasnt right. So far with the time spent tuning this single plane combo, i find the linear power band a little more forgiving. Time will tell.
I really wish i had installed the supercharher with the First as acomparison because i tgink it woukd be one of the few boosted ones out there, but i know i would have had major issues with detonating, and i wasnt in the mood to fight that battle, combo was just wrong for boosting. Would have been fun, except there would have also been major traction issues, lol
Yeah thats the effect of ve and cylinder pressure. Tpi cars build strong cylinder pressure / high ve at some low rpm so the timing and fuel requirements usually are different. Single plane runner length tunes higher rpm so less pressure. Little wider tuning window in a sense
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:41 AM   #52
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burlington Ontario, canada
Posts: 809
Car: 1987 Trans am GTA
Engine: FIRST Tpi 383
Transmission: t56
Axle/Gears: 3.73

Re: Supercharging the 383 FIRST TPI

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Originally Posted by NufNuffZ28 View Post
On My Iroc power decreased slightly after 5500-6500 with increasing boost.


Don't have specifics off of my head. IIRC I shifted around 6300 at that point.
Is that still with the tpi? I thought you got rid if that intake?
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:53 PM   #53
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bristol, Wi
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Car: 1987 T/A
Engine: 383 W/ FIRST Tpi
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: GM 10 bolt 3.73 auburn posi

Re: Supercharging the 383 FIRST TPI

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Originally Posted by gbayfisher View Post
Hey,

All done, finally!

I pretty much just got it done this past weekend, it was a long , slow build due to the typical issues , and of course this thing called running a business..

Anyways, to summarize the build, her are some more details.

I did decide to switch out the FIRST intake. Yes I know the FIRST lovers are crying right now, especially considering this started off as a FIRST build and SC project, unfortunately, I had enough of the intake, and its tb, I just felt like it was time for a drastic change since I was tearing into the engine.

I ended up going with the Edelbrock set up. Here were my changes:
-Victor junior E
-3848 edelbrock elbow
-3869 edelbrock LS2 Throttle body
-224/230 114ls cam
-62lbs injectors
-compression drop to 9:1
-D1SC/ intercooler
-self rebuilt/upgrade t56....


I ended up going with a thicker head gasket that allowed me to drop my comp down to 9:1. Yes, i removed my quench zone completely, actually, i killed it, which seems to make a big difference in battling detonation issues and quench zones being borderline or just out of the optimal zone, by running a huge gap, it looks like i am safe .....so far. I did run the engine for 2-3 weeks naturally aspirated just to work out the bugs and get things in line before boosting, I went up to 34 degrees timing with zero knocks, and today for the first time ran 6-7 psi of boost with zero detonation, things seems to be going good , so far, so good! I ran into wideband issues, so stopped the tuning early today which sucked bad with cool, clean air........tomorrow.

Regarding the intake swap. The verdict is still out on the single plane over the FIRST. Like I said, running NA for the last couple weeks skews the results, but as it is right now, i do definitely miss the low and mid range pull of the FIRST, it was an absolute blast to drive on the streets, but the lack of rpm was starting to bore me .
Running the single plane with no comp isnt a fair trial, but as i added the boost into the engine today, i feel like this set up is really starting to work, nothing like the sound and feel of a screaming sbc under boost!

Onto the fitment issues. I ended up with a 1" spacer under the elbow to give me a spot to port some vacuum lines into , as well as to clear the fuel rail. This intake/elbow combo is definitely not Firebird/trans am friendly, I maxed out the under hood clearance, and i mean maxed out, to the point that i am considering a cowl style hood if i keep this combo around for long, I really want to turn the elbow around, but there is no way with the factory hood, idk what to do, will see after this season, might be time for a miniram......

I look forward to continuing to improve this combo, but i will admit it was a lot of work (as are most), but it is finally starting to come along nicely. My efforts were multiplied by tranny issues and clutch problems when i reinstalled my newly rebuilt by CENTERFORCE DFX, which has been a royal PITA since day one, after 3 "in and outs" im done with it and just reinstalled my df centerforce which has been flawless. I do have a Mcleod twin disk/ aluminum flywheel combo to drop in if i burn this clutch up this summer, if not, i will do it over the winter, i just want to drive the car for now.

Look forward to dialing this combo in, going to be fun!

My one issue coming up soon might be fuel delivery issues, i am only running the Walbro 255lph. I will have to wait and see how it goes while i dial it in some, i think im ok for 6-8 lbs, might be an issue for 10-12lbs.

Here is a pic of my tight engine bay.. Plumbing is still half fast, but i will clean it up as i go along , i want to weld most of it together once i know it works.
Wow this seems like a cool project! I know this is a bit late, but how did this work out for you? Too bad you did not keep the FIRST on and try it with the boost! I have 2 383 CI upcoming projects with supercharged FIRST intakes. I would have like to see how they matched up to your build. I took some time and read through your original build post that you gave the link to and WOW it seemed like you sure did have your struggles getting the numbers you wanted out of the FIRST!? I am not sure what to make of that? I am not sure why that fell short for you on the dyno? Seems like the ET'S were where you wanted in the end if I was reading it correctly? It just fell short on the dyno numbers? But drive ability was OK? I am not sure what the deal was with the throttle body? You stated you spoke to me multiple times, I am really surprised that did not come up in conversation, because I would have had you send it in for inspection for sure! The last thing I would want is you using it if it was not functioning properly! We have a "LIFETIME" guarantee, so we own it if there is an issue. I feel as though we have let you down, for that I do apologize! I would also like to offer you a refund on your purchase of some sort, even if it has been over 6 years and you modified it. That is if you have not sold it already to someone else? If you did PLEASE have them contact me so we can sort through the TB for them, FREE of charge again "LIFETIME" even if not the original purchaser! I feel that you put forth the effort to make it work for sure and in the end if you were not 100% satisfied with the way it performed and being that you basically laid everything out throughout your build, I think we can make an exception to the rule here for you! I know this post has already been over a year gone by, so I am REALLY late to the seen, but I wanted to throw this out there for you anyway, just in case you still have the FIRST Tpi around! Not to mention I do not know how I would get a hold of you any other way at this point? Just let me know and I will take care of it for you some way some how. I am glad you found a combo that will work better for you and I sure hope you have been having many miles of fun with it!
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:13 PM   #54
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Car: 1987 Trans am GTA
Engine: FIRST Tpi 383
Transmission: t56
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Re: Supercharging the 383 FIRST TPI

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Originally Posted by firstperf1 View Post
Wow this seems like a cool project! I know this is a bit late, but how did this work out for you? Too bad you did not keep the FIRST on and try it with the boost! I have 2 383 CI upcoming projects with supercharged FIRST intakes. I would have like to see how they matched up to your build. I took some time and read through your original build post that you gave the link to and WOW it seemed like you sure did have your struggles getting the numbers you wanted out of the FIRST!? I am not sure what to make of that? I am not sure why that fell short for you on the dyno? Seems like the ET'S were where you wanted in the end if I was reading it correctly? It just fell short on the dyno numbers? But drive ability was OK? I am not sure what the deal was with the throttle body? You stated you spoke to me multiple times, I am really surprised that did not come up in conversation, because I would have had you send it in for inspection for sure! The last thing I would want is you using it if it was not functioning properly! We have a "LIFETIME" guarantee, so we own it if there is an issue. I feel as though we have let you down, for that I do apologize! I would also like to offer you a refund on your purchase of some sort, even if it has been over 6 years and you modified it. That is if you have not sold it already to someone else? If you did PLEASE have them contact me so we can sort through the TB for them, FREE of charge again "LIFETIME" even if not the original purchaser! I feel that you put forth the effort to make it work for sure and in the end if you were not 100% satisfied with the way it performed and being that you basically laid everything out throughout your build, I think we can make an exception to the rule here for you! I know this post has already been over a year gone by, so I am REALLY late to the seen, but I wanted to throw this out there for you anyway, just in case you still have the FIRST Tpi around! Not to mention I do not know how I would get a hold of you any other way at this point? Just let me know and I will take care of it for you some way some how. I am glad you found a combo that will work better for you and I sure hope you have been having many miles of fun with it!
HI Ken,

Thanks for reaching out, you were always there to help and take care of your clients, appreciate that very much. All in all , aside from a few little issues with the TB, I had no complaints with the intake, it was a lot of fun. I didn't get the hp or torque numbers I was expecting, but the E.t's were close. I really wanted to try boosting the First, but I had too many worries with my combo at the time. I think the fellow that bought it from me is planning on boosting his combo with the First. I will let you know! You can p.m me anytime for my email if you want.
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