Raunchtastic

I honestly wish I had a better reason for why they don't fit. Possibly a revision at some point? Poor quality control? Tough to say. The flange pre-welded on the headers did not have the dimple that you mentioned, but the flange in the box does. I know what you are talking about with the tight fit, but I'll just cut and weld the dump pipe if I need to. I'm far from concerned with how it looks, as long as it fits and is functioning. I would like to eventually recirculate back into the exhaust, so it's just a short term setup anyway.

**Edit**
Just went out and zapped the other flange on and the wastegate fit right on no issues. All the hot side should be good, now I need to get the radiator/overflow and cold side figured out.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

hmmm interesting. My flange on my hotside didn't have the dimple either. Only the flange and the WG that came in the box. Basically CX welded the flanges on but sent a complete WG with the flanges. But they are the same flanges with and without the dimple.

Good to hear you got it sorted out. Post come pics of the flange you took off and its orientation of how it was installed... interested to see what the heck was going on with it.

Raunchtastic

I'll see if I can take a few photos tonight, I'm doing all of these postings from my phone. Here is my current situation:

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Is that an On3 turbo? 76/75 or 78/75? Did it bolt right in? I'm thinking of going with a 78/75 version or at least a billet 76/75 in the future as I need to keep the 3" DP.

Looks like you modded the crossover how I did, your belt looks pretty close to the crossover. Try to get a side shot of the crossover distance fromt he WP pulley and see how close your turbo elbow is from the strut tower.

Also swapping to the D581 coils will move the coil boot up and away from the headers and give you more clearance for wire routing.

Raunchtastic

I took a few more shots. The closes the belt gets is about 3/8", so I'm sure with a lot of spirited driving I will end up melting belts.

The turbo is the ON3 78/76 as they call it, but everyone else seems to call it the 78/75. I wanted to get something a little bigger than the CX kit came with but keep the 3" dp also. I likely won't be able to drive it until spring season, so feedback will be a minimum.

Raunchtastic

As an update, I hacked up the cold side to make it fit. I haven't had a hood on the car in about 3 years, so I'm not terribly worried about it not fitting:

I still need to get coolant in the radiator and get some hoses and vacuum line, but I should be able to get this thing drivable in the next few weeks. I'm using a Microsquirt ecu with the VE Analyze to tune it. The wastegate dump pipe ran right into the turbo oil drain. How are you guys routing that? Other than dropping a hole in the frame rail, there isn't an very direct route.

ZZ3Astro

Has anyone looked into crossover temperature vs crossover diameter? In theory the same amount of gas is moving from A to B, but in a larger diameter crossover is crosses a larger cross-section, albeit slower. More pipe = more radiant surface = cooler charge. I'm just wondering if there is a net result of less radiant heat to a specific spot the crossover passes, and perhaps a reason CX prefers to use 3".

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

On3 lookjs good. I’ve heard things about quality tho and that might keep me off. But if I run this and think it’s choking out at the top end I’m going to prob swap turbos.

That cold side looks crazy lol. The stock or any aftermarket won’t close in that area. Cowl hoods only offer space really in the center.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I’m using the CX turbo drain hose flange, a 90 degree pushlock hose end and running mine down and to the oil pan. Mine was close to the downpipe as well. I used some hose clamps and zip ties to keep it away and slipped over some heat sleeving to help with radiant heat.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i think CX used 3” for cost honestly. It’s easier and cheaper to order 3” in bulk vs having to get 2.5” and 3”. They didn’t even know the crossover was 3” until I spoke with them on the phone and told them I measured it. Then they said... oh it must be a website error. They said the 3” didn’t affect spool time.

My theory is that 3” crossover would be an issue if the turbo was larger on the hotside. Instead they put a small .81 AR with a 65mm wheel to create a bottle neck and thus the rest of the hotside is basically under pressure from the turbo sizing. So putting a 2” crossover would do nothing as the 3” isn’t really slowing anything down since the turbo is the restriction. Smaller crossover would help where he turbo was less restrictive and thus the speed in the crossover would affect spool.

I have some experience with this in building a rear mounted turbo on my Suzuki 600. I left the aftermarket headers and built custom 2.25” exhaust from the collector back to the turbo under the seat. The Gt15 turbo has a super small inlet opening like 1.25” or something and the flange I got was cut for a slightly larger size as well I welded the 2.25” piping to the flange and ran the turbo as is. That was like a 1.25” difference in ID opening. The turbo spooled just fine and was seeing boost around 7k Rpms. Boost was instant once it started and shot to whatever wastegate spring I put in it. I ended up pulling the exhaust and porting out the turbo inlet to match the slightly larger flange openeing and smooth out the exhaust flow. This actually resulted in a noticeable loss in some low end power and actually increased spool rpm slightly higher. Sure the single 2.25” exhaust pipe was way overkill but the turbo inlet restriction acted like a bottleneck. I ended up rocking 12-14psi on that thing from 8k-14k.

I have a feeling the cx kit will act simular. U will prob notice lag more when people use larger turbos like the 78/75 or 76/75 or even the larger 76/65 with the .96 AR. Which CX told me the .96 would be laggy compared to the .81 I got. Mines all street so I want boost before 3k and not much more rpm than 6k.

Raunchtastic

Yeah, the cold side is not really ideal. I would like to get the hood on eventually, so I'll have to clean that up another time. I'll probably run to the dollar store to hack up a cutting board into a throttle body spacer so I can run the cold side under the hood. I also need to figure out how I am going to run all the vacuum line so I can let this thing start tuning itself. Once it is runable I can just let it idle in the driveway for 10-15 minutes, then maybe take it around the block once or twice... Or 1/2 hour cruise, haha.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Just started mine up. Started right up and no leaks. I’m running the new FItech ultimate LS and it started on the first crank. I’m having issues communicating via a laptop but I can program via the handheld. Turbo really quieted the exhaust note. This is a full 3” exhaust, a resonator where a cat would be and a 3” SS dynomax ultraflow SS muffler whitch is basically straight through perforated core.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Awesome - congrats!!

Raunchtastic

I am also using a dynomax ultraflo, haha. I haven't got the exhaust all put together, that probably won't happen until spring. I won't be using a resonator, either. Glad yours is running smoothly!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thanks!

while she was literally warming up for the first time I want you to look in the video and see the smoke coming off the header wrap. It was thicker than that and smelled of course lol. But it got so hot so quickly that it was smoking within 30s after starting. So for $hits and giggles i pulled out the IR temp gun and got some readings. After just idling and getting up to temp (180*F) the IR gun showed a consistent 346*F -456*F on the header wrap on the headers as well as the crossover and turbo exhaust manifold. The 90* CX elbow from the header to turbo exhaust inlet showed a lower temp like 200*F but I think it was too reflective and thus screwed the readings a bit. I mean just idling this thing got pretty warm! It makes me much less nervous that i ran the spark plugs around the headers. It would have for sure burned though them in a hurry, especially once I got her good and hot and got some hot backpressure in the hotside. Don’t mess around guys, route the wires around.

Its also amazing how quiet this thing is, I can hear the valve train from inside the car and it’s with the windows down and in a closed tent. It sounds very tame! I can’t wait to get it out on the street and see what the wastegate sounds like and hear some turbo spool.

Here is a video of me reving the engine, windows down and inside a closed tent.

Raunchtastic

Sounds healthy! I have fiberglass sleeves on each wire, and an additional sleeve on some of the tighter fits. I like those gauges a lot, who makes them?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea, she revs quick. Hopefully on the street too.

Yea and so did I. I couldn’t image running them through the normal location the way I had them. They were sandwiched between the valve covers/heads and the header tubes. They fit but with the heat sleeves I’m sure they would have been a goner in short time. They were basically 500*F on the header wrap outside and the car was just idling. Forget 3-5k and boost.

The main gauges are speedhut evolution line. They are my favorite of all time. Programmable, tach is good for 4,6,8 cylinders and as built in early staged shift light. Speedo is gps with 1/4 mile and 60ft features. The gauge in the middle is a innovate PSB1 which is a WB02 and boost gauge with shift light and datalogging and has programmable shutoff feature to control a relay which I was using to shut down DOD cylinders if it got lean under boost. All my other gauges are speed hit evolution line and all are programmable with warning lights built in. Not cheap, like 2k In all my gauges but worth every penny.

Raunchtastic

I took a short video of the software running
My wideband is acting up. It will read well for a bit, then spike full lean and won't back off, then jump back to reading correctly again. I moved some wires around last night, but it was too late to start it up again. I'll have to try tonight and see how it goes. It still needs some work before it can hit the street, but it's close!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

nice! Yours has some lope to it! Or maybe its just the tune. Surprised as my 5.3 is running a 218/228 .561 114.5+5.5 custom blower cam and seems very mild compared to that. Did you have the full exhaust hooked up?

Raunchtastic

It doesnt have lope in person. A few of the revs I did had spark cutting for some reason. I think I need to check plug wires under the car. I was in such a rush to get the car running I forced a few on, but I think I need to trim the boots back a bit to really get them on well. It's just an LS9 cam, I think they are like 211/230? Nothing insane, but only ~$100 brand new and will make way more power than stock in boost.
I still need to bleed the clutch line to get it able to drive and fuss with the gas tank. I did a 450lph walbro and ever since I put it in, the tank won't draw from less than 3/4 full. I had the problem before with a 250lph and just had to R&R a bunch to get it to work. Hopefully driving and tuning soon!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Gotcha, Well I'm sure it will sound good when it get it all sorted out.

Interesting you used that cam. I just picked one up actually lol. I'm doing the cam and a 2 peice cover with sensor for my spare 5.3 turbo build for a future project. The LS9 specs are 211/230 like you said and its really close to the cam I had custom ground actually at 218/228.

I def want to get your point of view on the LS9 cam in that combo when you get it all sorted out. I was either going to use a used Lq9 cam or the LS9 cam I just got new at $108 from summit. Word is that the LS9 makes 100hp over stock in the 5.3 but trades alot of low end and pushed the rpm up way high... not sure if I want to do that so i'm on the fence between it and the LQ9 which makes 40hp over the LM7 cam with no trade off of tq and will let it spin alittle higher. The LS9 is a blower cam and turbos like different specs but its a powerful cam for only $100. This motor will use an Ebay Gt45 and will go in a light 33 coupe kit car if I come up with 20 grand out of the blue :/

Hmmm interesting on the fuel pump. My walbro 450 on the stock hanger works just fine even at 1/4 tank. When I was recording the videos of the startup I had 1/4 tank of gas and the 450 was all good. This is a stock 91 TPI EFI fuel tank I picked up from a member here.

Raunchtastic

I had a 5.3 running NA with the LS9 cam and it was a very noticable drop in torque over the stock 5.3 cam. I'm sure with the 4.8 it will be even worse, but with the drop in displacement I can't compare apples to apples.
the car is a '92 RS 305 TBI, so it has all the FI stuff, I haven't toyed around with the tank much, since my hands are full of small cuts from fighting the turbo kit, haha.
With the holidays hitting and the weather turning colder, I likely won't be able to give any feedback for a while. I imagine it will feel like a my '99 Audi A4 did. Probably made ~80hp until 3000 then ramped up quickly to ~250. I'm sure my setup will be peaky, and I'm ok with that. It will make the car feel faster :P

Raunchtastic

Well, I was able to get it together enough to drive today! I drove around casually for a bit to get the tuning software to recognize part throttle and cruise and from the start of the day to the end of the day and it made a huge difference. I think I may have a vacuum leak somewhere, because the idle would intermittently jump from ~850/900 to as high as 1200-1500. That didn't concern me too much, but boost was peaking at about 20psi when I was really only trying to get 12psi to get my feet wet. Luckily I had overboost protection set for 20psi and set timing down to about 12° with way too much fuel. All in the car is very quick though. With the LS9 cam it is fairly gutless down low, not terrible though. A bit more pep than the stock 305 was. Right around 2500 the turbo starts getting audible and by 3000-3200 is was starting to build boost. By about 3800 it's 10psi and was hitting 20psi by about 4000. I have redline set at 7000, but haven't taken it above 6k yet. I ran into a few small issues, some I was expecting others that I wasn't. The fuel regulator went bad and started spraying fuel all over the engine, serpentine belt shredded (I had a spare as the one that shredded was from the junkyard) and the brakes need some attention. I'm absolutely ecstatic with how the car performs, outside of overboost that is.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

very nice! What was the turbo that your running? That’s a lot of boost for it to shoot to 20psi. How did it get into overboost? Are you running a manual or electronic boost controller?

edit: nvm. I reread through and see your using the on3 78/76. Still seems to build boost early being a larger turbo. I hope mine builds boost alittle earlier and it would be sweet to be at 12psi at 3500.

Raunchtastic

Just bumped up timing to a more "normal" level (was running very conservative just to be safe for the first few drives) and set out to get a bit more seat time tonight. Had a very odd failure. Apparently I did not double check the torque on the crank pulley, so while cruising it popped off and I drove right over it. Luckily I was close to home and the bolt was easy to find. It's not badly beat, so I just bolted it back on and drove it home. I rerouted a lot of the vacuum lines, as I think the reason that it was boosting so much over my intended level is that it has been spitting air/oil past the valley pan gasket and covering the FEAD and trans in oil. I got a good amount of tuning done tonight before the whole crank pulley fiasco, so that's good. We have a car show/holiday party this Saturday at work and I was really hoping to be able to take the Camaro, but it looks like that may not happen. I don't want to be 40 minutes away from home on a car that I'm second guessing a lot of things now. That's the worst part of overlooking one bolt: now I'm worried about all the others.
next steps just going to be checking any safety and/or drivetrain related bolts for torque, then getting some more seat time to see if changing the vacuum lines worked for me. I will need to get a catch can and an actual coolant overflow tank. What are all of you using for overflows? I need some ideas for mounting!

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Jealous you guys are up and running.
I bought a Mighty Mouse catch can setup but I’m not sure where it will fit yet.
I was going to get a round recirculating can for the radiator overflow and maybe mount it under the closeout panel in front of the core support. There might not be room there though cause of the intercooler. I haven’t gotten that far.

Jegs can:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...11035/10002/-1

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Your balancer bolt coming off while driving is kinda a big deal lol. What did you tq it to? I was suppost to tq mine to 235ftlbs but I could only get it to click at like 175ftlbs. I would go over the motor with a fine tooth comb.

You must be pushing crazy crankcase pressure for it to push oil out the valley cover gasket. Make sure your PCV system is hooked up to the driver valve cover and put a catch can with filter (vented to atmosphere on the pass side).

I'm running a moroso oil/air seperator on the driver valve cover. Stock PCV valve in the driver valve cover, runs to the Moroso seperator and then into a Mcmaster Carr check valve (only flows in one direction and opens at like .2psi pressure). Then that line goes to the top of the intake. The pass side is a simple line going to a JAZ mini catch can with filter. The PCV will suck crank case during vacuum, once boost hits the pressure will close the McMaster Carr check valve and push all crank case pressure out of the pass side valve cover into the catch can and oil will collect there and vent the gases to atmosphere. ITs the correct way to do it. Otherwise just run breathers on each side and delete the PCV system. You dont want pressure pushing from the intake to the crankcase and thats why you need a check valve. PCV system is a beautiful thing and really helps get all the gases out of the crank case but you have to do it right.

I run a 1-2qt billet overflow tank from Jegs, its cylindrical and I have it over by the turbo filter. It was the spot I could mount it. its setup to be recirculating. I'll post a pic soon.

Raunchtastic

Not sure what is going on with the crank bolt, I may need to replace it and/or the hub. After getting into boost the bolt backs out a bit no matter how much I torque it. I just threw some red threadlocker on it and torqued it as much as I was able to with a 2ft breaker. I haven't been able to take it further than 5-6 miles at a time so far without issue.
on a better note, I stepped down to a slightly shorter belt, about 1", and the tensioner gave plenty more room. Getting the belt on was a squeeze, but the tensioner still has about 1/8" play and the belt will loosen after running a few times. I keep hunting down vacuum leaks, and can't seem to get them all. I have one that comes and goes, I'll have to chase it with carb cleaner to see if I can find it.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

good luck. The intake gaskets are notorious for vacuum leaks especially when cold and go away as the engine warms up. Also carb cleaner doesn’t work unless your looking at the real time tune data and see a fluctuation in STFT. The EFI will adjust for the carb cleaner or propane and u won’t be able to hear any difference. U would see it pull fuel in the short tterm fuel trims tho if looking at the laptop tho. Your best bet is to replace the intake gaskets with the newer green oring style or felpro upgrades. Also check around the fuel pressure regulator itself. If u pull the line and see fuel in the line then the regulator is bad and can cause a vac leak too.

Raunchtastic

I'll have to look into those intake gaskets. I have my ECU set to not stray from the maps at all, so I should still get changes in idle. The fuel pressure regulator is brand new, it just blew out like 3 miles ago, haha.

Raunchtastic

For those of you with Facebook:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...3&id=693494452

Here is a few videos of me getting on it for a local YouTube guy. I imagine the full video will be up soon. My buddy shot these for me.

Right after doing this I killed my O2 sensor, so I got the car home rather gingerly, and now it will likely sit for a bit while I clean up a bunch of stuff on the build. I got a solid ~50-60 miles on it so far with no major failures. So far that's better than I did N/A.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

looks like shes movin!

The Popping I'm assuming isnt backfiring right? Thats the WG dump pipe opening? Sounds like a gunshot lol... I'm not going to like that lol.

How did you wipe out a 02 sensor already! Geez man. Was it a new 02? brand? Im starting to think the placement of the 02 is rather close for the CX kit. Did you swap the location (not run the original CX locations)?

Raunchtastic

I've had the sensor on this car with 3 engines and a previous turbo car. It's probably seen close to 50k miles on it. It was an innovate MTX-L. I'm going to move it further away, but it was in the CXRACING spot on the down pipe right at the 6oclock spot. I'm going to move it to the next one down at the 3 o clock spot. I had it too close to the turbo. Playing with launch control fried it. It was almost completely black.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Understood. Its prob due to location and not the temp per say. The 6 oclock position is LITERALLY the worst position and just about every 02 sensor install states this in the directions including innovate. The 6 oclock allows all condensation to drain to the lowest spot and kill the sensor almost immediately. It should never be lower than the 9 & 3oclock postion. I drilled and welded in 2 new 02 bungs for my WB02s (one right above that 6 oclock one) at the 1-2oclock position and the other right before the Vband at the back of that same pipe at the back of the motor at the 12 oclock positon. I did it for that very reason and can't beleive CX put the 02 bung at the 6 position... such a waste. I also run the innovate PSB-1 gauge and always use innovate WB02s... I'm a big fan!

I also measured that distance from the turbo and its around 12" or slightly more from the DP vband. So thats not really too close for the sensor to burn up. If it was closer than 6" I'm sure it would burn up probably.

Fun fact the sensor prob that goes into the exhaust stream on the BOSCH WB02s is good for up to 1700*F, which is more than any EGT we would see as you melt stuff at 1650*F. But the sensor body (including the part that screws into the 02 bung where you put the wrench on) is only good up to 900*F... any higher than that and it fries the sensor over time killing it. First it will cause overheating resulting in faults or inaccurate readings and eventually it will die.

Raunchtastic

I remember seeing your post about adding those bungs. I knew the sensor would die pretty quickly, and it has been giving me funky readings for a while, so I'm not all too heart broken about it. Now that I know the car runs and the weather is turning to garbage in Chicago, it's back to parts accumulation for next year. Hopefully I'll be able to see some track time with it.

Raunchtastic

I was cruising YouTube and came across this. Any of you guys? Sounds good but has no accessories on it.

89FormulaLS

It runs

freaky

lotta good info . thanks

89FormulaLS

how are you guys liking this kit, I ended up selling mine about a week ago. Went to a S400 turbo and hooker ls turbo manifolds but kept the cx racing cold side.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Raunchtastic

I was able to get some more tuning and driving done, although I have killed yet another o2 sensor. I'm starting to wonder if the controller is going/has gone bad. After a good amount of driving/self learning the turbo is spooling a bit sooner, by about 2500rpm it's 0 vacuum, 3k it will start building boost. My daily driver had some issues so I was stuck taking the Camaro to and from work in 0° which was not as unpleasant as I expected. Drivability is very good, and it rolls into power very smoothly. I am chasing down some unrelated Gremlins around the car, but I won't get some serious seat time also until March/April.

89FormulaLS

I still havent received the manifolds yet but they shouldn't have any issues fitting. Ill post some pictures when i get them installed. I was just annoyed with the piping in the cx kit and thought before I hacked it up for the s400 I would just sell it and start over with something a little more engine bay friendly.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... we're lining them up.

- Rob

JAYDUBB

Question... What size is the downpipe? I cant tell by your pics or the pics on their page but... Where are the primary O2 bungs?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Look through the thread, I posted pics of the Bungs. All the piping in the CX kit is 3". The headers are 1 5/8" primary into a 3" collector, 3" vbands. The crossover is 3". The downpipe is 3". the only thing that isn't 3" is the Wastegate which is 2.5" and the WG dump is 2" I believe.

There are 2 bungs in the Downpipe, first is like 12" from the turbo and at the 5-6 O'clock position (worst ever). The Second is after the first section of the downpipe and on the back end of a 90 degree after the first Vband (at the back of the engine next to the tranny bellhousing). Then there is a 3rd which is over by the Cat connection point.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

haha... maybe!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

89FormulaLS

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thought u were going with the S400 style? A 1.32 AR T6 is a big ol girl to spool without a lot of cubes. You sure that was a good match? I wonder what the spool rpm will be. The 2.25” hooker crossover is nice for faster spool. But it still exits the pass log manifold at a 3” vband. So your going to run a 90 degree 3” vand to T6 connector.

Interesting to see how it fits. Try to get pics all around the pass side motor mount and kmember. I’m worried about the clearance between the manifold and the kmember mostly.

89FormulaLS

ah, good cam ill have full boost by 4500