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No clue! I'm going to guess just pure bad luck. Engine spun over freely, had oil, ect. I assume there was something wrong to begin with internally.
Pissed because I stole that oil pan for $50! Now a new one is going to cost me $150 unless I can find a used one. Of course the engine sucks too... haha
At least I'm positive about it. Yeah it sucks, just part of the game I guess.
Possibly... only way to crack the pain is with a rod. To have a rod let go on startup sounds insane unless the cap or something was never attached lol. Do you think it was tune related? I know you said you were backfiring out of the intake and running like poo.
Good luck finding another pan even for $150 lol. The ones on Ls1tech are like $200 without tray and your lucky to get the pickup. Dorman sells a Fbody stock replacement for like $200 I think.
Please open it up and post pics... I would love to know what happened.
You still should have been able to make some choo choo noises before it fails... thats just crazy.
Yeah right windage tray. Already set to purchase another 4.8l long block for $300 complete. This one came out of a running truck that was hit. So fingers crossed we are set. I guess I got my money out of the other since I was able to use the harness and 411 pcm. I'll see how bad the damage is and go from there.
So $300 for the engine, $144 for the oil pan, $20 for a new windage tray (I assume I will need), $30 in oil, and $5 in a filter to get it back together. Fingers crossed!
Thanks for the link scooter, I ended up getting the pan, paint, filter, gasket, and brake cleaner for $150 on advance. Love speed perks and 25% all the time.
John, don't let it deter you buddy. I had my engine in and out repeatedly since installing it last year, for very petty little things, but still had to go in and out of it. Just keep going, don't lose momentum, it's coming out awesome. Get it done.
Hopefully you are up and rolling soon. Well we never got to race each other with the gen 1 385 10 second sbc I had but I suppose we can race with the 509 big block now!!!!! I'm taking mine to the track this Sunday.
Some early carnage pics. Engine is coming out today, spent yesterday after work removing everything down to the longblock for easy removal. All that is left is one stubborn bellhousing bolt and the torque converter bolts.
Wrecked two rods and at least one piston. Dug a couple chunks out that were sitting on the windage tray. Junkyard motors for the win! I'm going to guess it had a pre-existing condition I overlooked, and probably some fuel in the oil didn't help. Either way, a good learning experience and easy fix.
Some early carnage pics. Engine is coming out today, spent yesterday after work removing everything down to the longblock for easy removal. All that is left is one stubborn bellhousing bolt and the torque converter bolts.
Wrecked two rods and at least one piston. Dug a couple chunks out that were sitting on the windage tray. Junkyard motors for the win! I'm going to guess it had a pre-existing condition I overlooked, and probably some fuel in the oil didn't help. Either way, a good learning experience and easy fix.
Definitly a risk you take with junk y motors. Ls or otherwise. How did it break and did you at least get to drive it a bit? Run it in boost? I remember you saying it was backfiring out the intake... that was weird for a fuel injec crank sence set up. For that to break so quickly after start up is weird. It's hard to break these engines but you did very easily.. lol part of the deal. Build a better motor next time. Always move forward. Open it up and inspect it exc and or upgrade things, even rebuild your new short block if need be for peace of mind. It gets expensive blowing up motors after a while even if they are elcheepo 300-500 dollar j yard motors. Trust me. Over grenaded 2 in 6 years. Each time I build them better. My last one was sad after all the time and money. My newer bbc has a rotating assembly and block rated at 1200hp+ I have peace of mind running it. Same goes for rear ends. Strange s60 in mine. I dont have to worrie any more about exploding parts.
Always open a motor up when you first get it and randomly check main caps, bearings, clearances exc.
Did all that, had the pan off to swap to fbody pan. Nothing looked abnormal and it spun over fine. After doing some research my injectors are rated 80lb at 43.5 psi, not 58 psi. I wonder if there was to much gas in the oil mixed with a uncaught pre-condition in the engine. Oh well, said and done.
Did all that, had the pan off to swap to fbody pan. Nothing looked abnormal and it spun over fine. After doing some research my injectors are rated 80lb at 43.5 psi, not 58 psi. I wonder if there was to much gas in the oil mixed with a uncaught pre-condition in the engine. Oh well, said and done.
Did you check clearances?
What were your afrs when idling. If you had gas in your oil then you were stinking rich pegged afrs in the 10s.. or you had some timing firing issues or a few other issues.
Sounds weird that you had gas in your oil. Be sure to fix that issues or you'll be tossing in another engine in 3 months lol by then you could have built a new ls from the ground up.
Well there we go. Both of the rods spun free around the journals. Didn't take them off to inspect yet.
Any idea what the 706 heads are worth? Hoping I might be able to recoup some money between those and the loaded truck intake I have. Anything is better than nothing.
Picking up the new motor today! I would like to get it to run on the stand before putting it into the car just to verify everything before I have to go through this again.
Well there we go. Both of the rods spun free around the journals. Didn't take them off to inspect yet.
Any idea what the 706 heads are worth? Hoping I might be able to recoup some money between those and the loaded truck intake I have. Anything is better than nothing.
Picking up the new motor today! I would like to get it to run on the stand before putting it into the car just to verify everything before I have to go through this again.
Thats a sad sight being on stands ramps again..gotta get that puppy off of them pretty soon it's going to think that's normal lol
what are all those scuffs on the piston? Any damage to head.. dings exc. Definitly look the next one over better. And find out why you had excessive fuel. 80lbs injectors flow a alot more at 58 psi then 43.5 psi...... thats probly the cause but a afr guage should have told you that when you first started it....Best of luck!!!
As for the 706 heads. You can try and sell them. They go for about 300 bucks a pair all day long in good shape if you can find a buyer.
Had excessive fuel due to wiring issue with the coilpacks. Didn't ever really think about it, but it obviously came to bite me in the ***. Car hasn't been off those stands since last september, so I think it is getting used to it! lol
Yeah, found out my 80lb injector are rated 80lbs at 43.5 psi, not 58 psi. So I need to account for that as well.
I never really had it run more than a couple seconds before, so the wideband really wouldn't have helped I think. It does work though! I need to wire it into HP tuners so I can log it.
Got the new engine home yesterday! Time to clean it up, paint it, slap on my accessories, and the oil pan should be in monday. Going to chop the stock truck windage tray down instead of spending $35 on a new windage tray.
Should I order a new pick-up tube o-ring? Mine only had idle time, hate to waste $5 on an o-ring and also have it push back putting the motor together because of shipping.
Have to run to walmart and get cheap oil to flush out my pick up tube.
The 706 heads aren't worth much.... they are the problematic ones depending on the year (castech) casting flaw which cracks the head and leaks coolant into the chamber or mixes with the oil. I believe it was all the Gen3's 99-05 or something. Look for the battery logo casting under the rocker arm stand. I have them on a spare 5.3 and I'm alittle worried about running it (JY motor) but it doesnt show signs of the cracking yet. Actually I can see the battery in your pics lol (young eyes) so you got the problematic ones. They are worth less now lol... but I would take them off your hands for cheap lol. Check around the head bolts under the valve covers look for any marks or discoloration... If you had a bad leak you could have hydro locked. You could have hydrolocked the back 2 with fuel too... who knows.
80lb vs 58 is a big difference lol... depending on the AFR it might or might not have been a problem as the PCM might have been able to reduce PW to keep AFR in check. The back 2 cylinders went on yours, #7 is common to go on these motors but thats usually due to a lean/rich issue and boost.
I would pull the Oring and inspect... its had such short time I would just run it as I'm sure it doesnt look flat. The Orings are specific to the oil pickup as they have different ID and OD depending on what pick up you use. I buy the ebay full gasket kits at $100 or so and get every gasket I would ever need, the kits pile up and I have multiples but that way I'm never looking/waiting for a gasket if I need it.
The Truck tray is super easy to modify... just cut the front off lol.
Are you running stock truck springs? I would swap them out for LS6 springs for alittle peice of mind with the stock truck cam. Truck springs are barely fine for truck cam spinning to 5500, add boost and you got problems. The LS6 springs are cheap at $80 or so for 16 and swap right out in less than an hour if your good at it.
Thats a sad sight being on stands ramps again..gotta get that puppy off of them pretty soon it's going to think that's normal lol
what are all those scuffs on the piston? Any damage to head.. dings exc. Definitly look the next one over better. And find out why you had excessive fuel. 80lbs injectors flow a alot more at 58 psi then 43.5 psi...... thats probly the cause but a afr guage should have told you that when you first started it....Best of luck!!!
As for the 706 heads. You can try and sell them. They go for about 300 bucks a pair all day long in good shape if you can find a buyer.
You can't normally "give away" 5.3/4.8 truck heads. They can only be used on the 4.8s and 5.3s due to cylinder wall size and chamber volume and small valve size. If he gets $300 for those stock non rebuilt heads then he needs to be a salesman as a career.
You can't normally "give away" 5.3/4.8 truck heads. They can only be used on the 4.8s and 5.3s due to cylinder wall size and chamber volume and small valve size. If he gets $300 for those stock non rebuilt heads then he needs to be a salesman as a career.
Put them on Ebay. I sold 2 sets of them last fall when I had a few ls engines I was parting out. Sold them in litterly one week.
As for the valve springs i would change them. Just my 2 cents but I dont know much lol
Haha I did minor in sales! We will see about selling the heads. They looked solid with no cracking or any issues, so hopefully I can get a little bit out of them. I'm sure they would suck to ship, or else I would ship them out to you! Might be worth it to keep them around as spares though.
PCM has no input as my setup has no narrowband. I think this was a combo of fuel in oil, improper wiring, and massive injectors along with a possible pre-condition. Oh well, said and done. Onto the next!
The LS6 springs would probably be a good idea while the engine is out. The pan won't be in until monday... stupid shiping. So engine won't be in until at least tuesday. In the meantime I can order some LS6 springs and toss them in. Probably some good cheap insurance. Any other options? Ideally I would like to add a cam down the road, doing good springs now will save me time down the road.
Haha I did minor in sales! We will see about selling the heads. They looked solid with no cracking or any issues, so hopefully I can get a little bit out of them. I'm sure they would suck to ship, or else I would ship them out to you! Might be worth it to keep them around as spares though.
PCM has no input as my setup has no narrowband. I think this was a combo of fuel in oil, improper wiring, and massive injectors along with a possible pre-condition. Oh well, said and done. Onto the next!
The LS6 springs would probably be a good idea while the engine is out. The pan won't be in until monday... stupid shiping. So engine won't be in until at least tuesday. In the meantime I can order some LS6 springs and toss them in. Probably some good cheap insurance. Any other options? Ideally I would like to add a cam down the road, doing good springs now will save me time down the road.
Yea shipping would kill costs. You would have to check them out, but I can tell via your gaskets (graphite) that your heads are "knotched" so you cant run normal MLS head gaskets (felpro is the only one that makes MLS gaskets for knotched heads) otherwise your stuck with graphite... so remember that if you keep them as spares.
What PCM are you running? I dont remember... but thats crazy that it doesnt have 02 control?
LS6 springs will work with anything up to .550 lift. but the low spring rate doesnt off a ton of Boost control. Ive used them up to 12psi with no issues and spinning to 5500-6k. There is a guy selling new LS6 springs with locks and retainers for $60 on LS1tech... I would jump on them. He removed them from new GMPP LS3 heads.
I would also probably do lifters/trays as you can get them for $100-$120. But you need to remove the heads and do bolts/studs. You always take a gamble with the JY motors valve train, and when they go they take the cam and put metal in the engine. I wish you didnt have to yank the heads to do lifters but its a nature of the beast.
I would recommend you running the engine before installing lol. I built a test stand for cheap or run it on a converted engine stand and Ive run 2 motors on it. One of them I almost hydrolocked #8 as the injector was hanging open and was able to fix it easily. The 2nd motor had a horrible "knock/tick" on the pass side. So I pulled the heads and did full lifters/trays and now its quiet. Both problems adverted due to a test stand. Plus you can verify oil pressure and crap without having to go through all the crap your doing and having to remove/install. You can start it on a engine stand if you brace the front or use the 2K stands with the wide feet.
Blowing up JY motors becomes expensive and time consuming to locate/pickup/remove/install etc. I mean your eating the motor/pan etc already plus anything you need d to replace like header gaskets etc.
Totally agree, and thank you for the heads up on the heads. I'm still learning more every day as there is so much information out there on this platform.
Running a 411, but I don't have o2 sensors. Decided to just run the wideband and go SD... realizing I probably should have kept the front O2 sensors, but oh well.
I'll start the engine up on the stand this weekend and see what we are working with and go from there. Hopefully everything just works nicely... probably to much to ask for.
Dang, someone just bought those springs at 11 AM. I'll keep an eye out.
Totally agree, and thank you for the heads up on the heads. I'm still learning more every day as there is so much information out there on this platform.
Running a 411, but I don't have o2 sensors. Decided to just run the wideband and go SD... realizing I probably should have kept the front O2 sensors, but oh well.
I'll start the engine up on the stand this weekend and see what we are working with and go from there. Hopefully everything just works nicely... probably to much to ask for.
Dang, someone just bought those springs at 11 AM. I'll keep an eye out.
Slower than anticipated progress, but progress nonetheless. Going to swap over my valve covers and coil packs, along with accessories tonight hopefully. My oil pan should be in as well, need to modify it for the -10 drain.
Got it all ready along with fuel on the stand, then remembered that my injectors and coil packs are wired into the c207 and I can't run it standalone... will drop it in and fire it up before I get to far.
Any forward progress is still progress! Keep at it. Sucks about the harness... You could prob still jumper it but it would prob take longer than just dropping the motor in. Side note... My dad and I run a "motor flush" in the oil when we get a JY motor and you let it run for 10min and then drain the oil, it helps break down any sludge etc. I've read about people putting in a qt of tranny fluid to accomplish the same thing. It could also free anything thats been "sticking" like a lifter etc. Thats why I pulled my heads to do the lifters as I was already running the motor flush which would have loosened anything up that could have been stuck.
On the turbo drain, drill and tap for -10 to 3/8NPT and call it a day. I picked up a fitting from ICT billet that screws into the oil level sensor... no drilling the pan. Ive heard mixed reviews about drainage as the level sensor is below fill but the engine is running and the oil level drops... if the oil is still being sucked to the pump any oil that comes out of the turbo drain/level sensor port will stay at the same level. Some have no issues but some people swear it wont work lol. I spent the $10 for the fitting and will try it out I guess. On mine I tapped right below the rail on the fbody pan which is only like 1-1.5" higher than the level sensor anyways.
I'm thinking about changing the drain location to the passenger side since the turbo is located there as well. I think it will help with drainage since it will have a shorter route to the pan. Also have to order new water pump gaskets since my paper once were destroyed when I removed the pump.
Yeah, the drain location was not ideal but it was what I found that worked for others. I had it on the drivers side before with the turbo v6 and it worked fine. There is a little less room in the bay now though!
The ICT billet kit came with the paper gaskets, would have rather got the nice oem style ones that are reusable. Marking those off the list.
I didn't think about that, but I should probably add a flex section since it is out of the car. I should be able to just cut it out and replace with the flex without much headache.
Yeah, the drain location was not ideal but it was what I found that worked for others. I had it on the drivers side before with the turbo v6 and it worked fine. There is a little less room in the bay now though!
The ICT billet kit came with the paper gaskets, would have rather got the nice oem style ones that are reusable. Marking those off the list.
I didn't think about that, but I should probably add a flex section since it is out of the car. I should be able to just cut it out and replace with the flex without much headache.
Definitly put a flex on it!!! I know it's been said but that will help the longevity greatly. I have 2 1/2 flexes if you ever need any. Had them all over along with 2 1/2 inch v bands on my last turbo build. V bands and flexes on a turbo build are your friends lol
Haha got the V-Bands down! Need to pick up a flex and weld that in while the system is off. I might not bother with it now though since it will be freezing in a couple months here in michigan. I would really just like to drive the car. I have all winter to make upgrades! lol
Modified the truck windage tray to fit in the LS1 Pan.
Pulled out the pick up tube o-ring and found that they are slightly different. The thicker version was in the block... opted to put that one back in. The blue one that I had in the other engine looked much thinner.. I wonder if I put in the wrong o-ring. Talk about a dumb mistake if that is the case.
Pulled the pan out of the box, said "Sweet this looks great! Time to put a hole in it." Put the drain in, found out it interfered with the starter. Might be able to get away using a BFH on the starter, but the better option will probably be to spend $3 on a plug and plug it up. I wanted to put it in the low oil level plug like BlackBird suggested, but I would hate to have to do it twice. Just want the car on the road at this point.
The O-ring is all depended on the pickup tube. The are either straight or tapered.... which ever one you have will determine the oring. Put the wrong one and you got problems!
Pan doesnt look bad at all! The chinese kid that made it took the time to polish 3/4 of it lol. How was the inside? And horrible casting flash? Was Did it come with the metal baffle in the sump? Whats that weird dimple on the front bottom of the pan? The factory pan doesnt have that.
Nice work on the drain lol! I moved mine forward below the motor mount threads. Look to make sure but mine was close to my racecraft Kmember. You can always tap the timing cover too as thats really the best point as its above the oil pan seal area/ level. It think in stock 5.5-6qts and the engine off the oil level is actually above the oil pan seal.
I'll get some more pictures of the pan tonight and double check the pickup edge. I did just read an article talking about the correct o-ring, so I want to double check before everything gets buttoned up. Haha, yeah that drain pissed me off.
Way to soon Dave. Been so busy with work along with other commitments. Did 70 hours last week, so no time at all for the car. Spent yesterday converting the 335i for flex fuel, today is going to rain, tomorrow is going to rain, then going to take the cutlass to the Dream Cruise instead. Seems like an all-around better option than slapping the car together.
Maybe it will get finished this year... not placing any money on it. This weekend is Dream Cruise, Wednesday I'm flying out to Kansas with my brother to get him a 135i, then next weekend I'm helping my girlfriend move into school for her last year. Sometime after that I have to move my stuff to my apartment and then my Master's classes start. Crazy to think I joined this forum back in high school...
Anyways back to the car. I was able to get the drain to work with the starter. Got the accessories on and new water pump gaskets. Need to toss in the oil level plug and it is ready to drop in! From there it SHOULD be easy sailing. Everything should go on as easy as it came off. I could probably have the car 90% there if I had a whole day to work on it.
Don't mind the wiper motor, it was done the first time it went in. The black cover was interfering so I decided just to break off the rest of the cover.
Thanks Rob! I ended up smacking it the first go around and it actually destroyed the control board inside the motor. I'm going to need a whole new unit. Probably better to keep an eye out at the junkyards. I appreciate the offer though!
Car fired up the other night and idled great! No knocks or issues that I could hear or see on the log. Broke my 3" v-band and had to order a new one. Just have to drop in the radiator, intercooler, and button up the cold side. Final step will be vacuum lines and adding trans fluid. Should be good to roll after some street tuning!
Had the #1 injector stick open, locked the motor. I thought it was done, about ready to pull it back out but decided to pull the plugs. Fuel came pouring out of it. Never cheap out on injectors.
Couple days later I found BNIB FIC 60lb dekas, they should work for what my goals are.
Got everything back together but Michigan weather sucks. Hahah!
I'll have an update soon. New goal this year is to drive it back to the barn under it's own power... lol
07-24-2018, 09:49 AM
. Did you have the correct LS1 windage try in it? 
