Hello and thanks for reading , I got a pretty nice old school 3rd gen (86' w/ 92 great effects and slick *** paint)(stock z28 hood tho) w/ a .040 350 old school double humps ported n polished tho. w/ headers and a 650 demon dbl pumper. lunati cam w/ .489/.504 lift 1800 6200 pwr band eldelbrock ported air gap intake.. I guess around 400 horse and that used to be quick but my buddies kid shows up and we repaired his 03' vette w/ cam and intake making 450 to tires weighing 2700 #'s and I can't stand it... I would love to take him to gapplebees!! But don't really wanna change hoods and I got no room really so any ideas on a pwr adder??

 

He's out of your weight class dude. You don't have a prayer.

 

Say your car weighs 3400lbs, you'd need 566 rwhp to have an equivalent power to weight ratio. Call it 650 rwhp to be quicker, with 18% drivetrain losses, you're looking at something that can make 800hp at the crank. Definitely looking at an entire drivetrain replacement at that power level, a big block or ls with a turbo or centrifugal supercharger could get there. The LS is probably your only hope of fitting it all under the stock hood.

 

Sounds like it's LS 5.3 turbo time.
Weight reduction will also help etc

BTW - have seen dozens of so called "400 to 450 hp old school iron v8's barely make 225whp to 250whp on a DynoJet.

 

You sure about the weight? Would have had to have some serious weight reduction. The 2003 Vettes typically run in the 3100-3200lb range - "only" about 150-200lbs lighter than a typical 4th gen. Weight difference would depend whether you might be able to take him with a 175-200-shot or not. Well, that and if the pistons/ring gap were capable of taking that much - not to mention transmission and rear end.

 

Only consolation is If you DO wind up with a 5.3L Turbo you can win the race and say "its a stock engine from a tahoe with 200,000 miles"

oh they love that "you're joking?" Nahp $200 garbage junkyard longblock nobody wanted just smack down that vette, get guud

 

150 shot of nitrous would put you in the ballpark. but you would probably need to do some work on the trans im assuming.

 

This is true, I have a $500 150k 5.3 with a Chinese turbo and on low boost makes 600hp all day daily. When I crank it up to 15psi I’m around 750ish at the crank. I do have a $399 custom cam which puts me around 400hp NA and at 15psi its basically doubled.

I do also run a Holley termX and have it mated to a built 2004R. I bet I could give him a good run. Your gona need A bunch of power to catch him.

 

Thanks for responding and yes I'm sure about the weight, he has stripped everything out of vette to loose as much weight as possible, and I've got a stock t5 trans and 10 bolt that's had a lil beefing up so I would need to do some modifying I'm sure.. but it's either that or buy a 4th gen to make faster idk which would be easier...

 

Plenty, but probably none you're gonna want to hear.

To be competitive with that car---and most other 'modern-era' performance cars---cut about 800 pounds of weight off your 3rd gen, pull the gen1 small block and drop in a cammed-up LS-based engine with either turbo(s) or a centrifugal supercharger, a matching auto trans, and a highly-beefed-up rear end. For other than nostalgias' sake, old school just will no longer cut it.

Or.....leave your nice-looking 3rd gen as-is, and build another car on a lighter platform.

 

you do NOT have to have an LS to compete. i do not understand this logic.

 

SBC is far inferior to LS engine.
LS have main, girdle and pan support. It uses Toyota block design similar to the 2jz-gte which is a 3L Engine capable of 1000rwhp on stock internals.
LS have sequential EFI and coil over plug, far superior to distributor & single coil
LS have o-ring style oil seals, no more leaking front and rear main, valley
LS have updated oil priority, revised oil orifice, oil pump is more reliably driven
LS blocks are more symmetrical, computer aided design, and the metallurgy is superior to anything made previously

Ex.
With a stock LS engine from 2005 we can 1000rwhp for 200,000 miles of daily driver reliability, using a $50 OEM computer.

It isn't so much you 'need' the LS as much as if you want the reduced leaking and improved block design/integrity and powerful factory computer capability for low cost...
I mean why spend 20k on an engine when you can spend $1000?

 

Do things because you enjoy the hobby, not because somebody bothers you or you got some kind of chip on your shoulder.

 

While I agree its good to build a car you want to drive,

its also good to see what other people are doing, what they have. Compare setups. If you notice a factory 2L engine from Japan has 350rwhp in a car that weighs 2800lbs... it runs 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile gets 30mpg and will last 200,000 miles and 25 years without issue with a factory 5-speed transmission. That car is called a "Silvia" and its like a miniature skyline, lighter, more nimble, RWD, more fuel efficiency. And V8 torque from 122 cubic inches!!! It will out handle, out brake, out accelerate pretty much any factory V8 camaro with natural asiprated V8 engine. Especially once you start talking mods.

Now if you wana play 'blind eye' and pretend that car doesn't exist, thats fine. But looking at that car its tough to sell me on anything that weighs more than 3000lbs with less than 800hp, especially when the trade off in economy from 30mpg to whatever you get at higher weight... And a potentially more delicate transmission... Not to mention the differential. Factory Silvia differential will 800hp easy. Camaro? Not so much.

And looks! This car is cheap in Japan. Those are factory wheels. Factory body stuff.

 

I raced a base hemi charger the newer body ones and I was right next to him the whole time but he eventually pulled ahead. Felt good to actually compete. Going 24x coil on plugs swap soon and throwing some 4. 11s in the rear. Hopefully I can take em to gapples next time.

 

all of that is a moot point. maybe everyone should sell everything they have and go buy an ls because it is soo superior.
my logic is pretty simple. you can hit a 300hp sbc with a 150 shot of nitrous and have 450hp. no need for coil on plug, a computer, or even a superior ls block. and a bunch more torque than 450 n/a.

 

give me a friggin break. we went 10's on a stock 10 bolt in a 3000lb 4th gen. the engine had a cam and nitrous.

 

I think a lot of guys today get caught up in all the hype of one thousand horsepoower being a necessity because of most youtubers. That much horsepower on the street means nothing, you'll be slipping and sliding your way to the finish, wherever that might be. If we really needed to be old school, we're talking zero deck piston height, with 0.020 gasket thickness running 11:0 static compression, 8:5 dynamic and great flowing 2.02 heads. Pick your SBC poison; 350, 383, 406, 421, etc, as any one of them will be an absolute handful on the street to compete with, especially when setup with the right stall, gears, etc. People do kinda forget, and most don't even realize some of the Duntov grinds from way back in the day that were actually used by GM. Yes, third gen stock parts suck, but you can't say that about Gen 1 as a whole. Most of today's thing is the trans anyway, put an electronic ten speed behind a properly built Gen 1 383, and you're talking an entirely different ball game altogether. I think that was the whole point with that Faster Proms C4 Corvette that never got finished, which was already a mid ten second car with the 700R4 naturally aspirated...

My two cents anyway. Carry on...

- Rob

 

Skip the 4th Gen, get a C5z06 or C6 w/LS3 and add few mods plus Procharger

 

1/4 mile time is irrelevant. Its how a car handles, drives, brakes. Nitrous is not a reliable source of power it should never be used in a daily driver application for 200k miles. Maintenance is too high and cost is unacceptable.

Is the discussion topic daily drivers with turbochargers? Or race cars with nitrous. Turbocharging increases reliability and triples power output. Nothing else is even close.

NO matter what engine. SBC turbo reliability 500rwhp maybe 600? LS turbo reliability 600-1000hp easy. Thats the choice.

 

So.... copy the kid with the C5.
Oh, yeah, that'll show him!

The problem with this thread is it starts out with the wrong motivation. Your suggestion makes great sense.... but of course he can't do that now because he's in it for the wrong reason.

 

A stock block gen 2 LT1 has been 6.97@211 with a manual transmission. that's 1800+hp.
i was actually wrong about the 10 bolt, we went 6.20's in the 1/8, so figure 9's in the 1/4. it was an LT1 with nearly 200k on it, a small cam, and nitrous. Nitrous is plenty reliable, i don't know where you get that its not?

my point continues to be that you do not have to do an LS swap or buy a turbo Japanese exotic that handles good. if the op wants to outrun that c5 at the drag strip, he could probably do it with nitrous, tires, and an auto swap.

 

4th gens are just as fragile as 3rd gens. The 4l60e are garbage and they have the same 10bolts. If anything the third gen 9 bolt is stronger in stock form. Any platform you pick will need upgrades to the drivetrain as you would be doubling stock power level unless it’s a 2500 HD with a 4L80e then you can do cheap mods to the tranny and be good.

if I remember the 3rd gen can get close to 3k if you cut it including the supports in the doors, hood, hatch and glass.

 

my gta was 3050 with me in it. still had door bars, power windows, all glass, rear trunk pull down, rear bumper support, and an 8 point rollbar.

 

OP is running double hump heads with a carb, I don't think he is too concerned about reliability. Reliability defeats the point of the hobby anyway, we break, we fix. Expensive? Sure is. You want reliability and consistency, then start saving your pennies for a five thousand pound Plaid..Low nines even with an inexperienced driver, and it will drive you home from the track while you take a nap, Can't get any more reliable than that. Again though, defeats the whole point of the hobby....

... but I digress.

Rob

 

In this topic, I see a difference is novice vs professional, and daily driver vs track car
novices need to break things to learn, tighten clamps too tight, use wrong kind of lines, don't pay attention to solenoid or temperature related failure, etc
professionals don't want anything to break, drive the car built to withstand the abuse properly for it's intended, known lifespan of parts. Car is build right. Not novice.

Then,
Daily drivers use their power adders at every stoplight. Cannot use nitrous everyday every stoplight, not fun to do that way.
track cars use their power adders on the track. turn on bottle and go, its fine. Maintain the nitrous items, pros can do it easy. Novices will break stuff learning. Too hot. Wrong plug. etc

And there is one more level. The question: what is 'break stuff' and 'fix stuff'? Big difference.
For a professional, transmission rebuild is not a broken thing. Its just common maintenance to go through the trans and rebuild it.
To a novice the transmission can be daunting task, sometimes impossible to do properly the first time through. They break it first, then rebuild it. Pros just rebuild it when its time, they know before it 'breaks'.

So these are levels... for example I pro not want car break down, ever. So I built it for 200k miles no issues. I also want power adder every stoplight, so use turbo. Turbo coincides with reliability, protects rod cap, use stock rod bolts, and daily driver not break down together with turbo, they function well, tune remains the same no issues year to year. No solenoid system, unwanted complexity. No vacuum pump. No aux injections. No special equipment. No special tires to break driveline.

Of course pro through 4l80e trans every 120k or whatever. But its just like changing the oil, 1 day and its done back in the car. Not really broken parts, or work. Just normal routine for a pro, 999x.

This perspective issues , reliability, track, daily, pro, novice, economy. Need economy? Guess what

 

The C-130 cargo aircraft have an option for short takeoff runs, Jet Assisted Takeoff Tanks. Theyd strap about 8 of these things to either side of the cargo door. Theyre typically rated at 1000lbs of thrust each. Get you hands on one of those babies, remove your hatch and have a brace welded in the back to mount it.

 

You need 1,000+ hp to be competitive because you are using a passenger car.

If you want to be competitive build a tube chassis car.

Or just enjoy your car.

-- Joe