Megasquirt Distributor Control As the title hints at: i'd like to set up an MPFI system using a megasquirt (as i know others have done before). I'd also like to have the Megasquirt control the timing once the CCC Qjet comes out. From the research i've done, my 86 LG4 has the big cap CCC distributor (which i believe is a 7 pin HEI module). I've seen a tech article from DIY Autotune where they do this on an older SBC (link below). Has anyone done this? Am i missing any important details? Thanks for the help. https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/chevrolet-gm/carb-to-efi/part2/ |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6179317)
As the title hints at: i'd like to set up an MPFI system using a megasquirt (as i know others have done before). I'd also like to have the Megasquirt control the timing once the CCC Qjet comes out. From the research i've done, my 86 LG4 has the big cap CCC distributor (which i believe is a 7 pin HEI module). I've seen a tech article from DIY Autotune where they do this on an older SBC (link below). Has anyone done this? Am i missing any important details? Thanks for the help. https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...-to-efi/part2/ Personally I like the Microsquirt and Microsquirt module. You don't have to modify things to change how it works, and it's a surface mount board meaning less prone to issues. (MS2 is through hole). I'm using a Microsquirt module inside a stock GM ECM case so it's plug and play: http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/megasquirt/ -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control I haven't bought the Megasquirt yet, i'm focusing on the hard parts first (fuel rails, throttle body, etc). I figure they'll keep me busy enough to spread out the cost hit over a few weeks. For a standalone FI setup (that will accomodate a future 383 with new injectors), do you think a Microsquirt would be better? I was under the impression that it wouldn't control timing electronically like i want to do. I have and will be keeping a manual trans if that makes a difference (no auto transmission functions needed) |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6179465)
I haven't bought the Megasquirt yet, i'm focusing on the hard parts first (fuel rails, throttle body, etc). I figure they'll keep me busy enough to spread out the cost hit over a few weeks. For a standalone FI setup (that will accomodate a future 383 with new injectors), do you think a Microsquirt would be better? I was under the impression that it wouldn't control timing electronically like i want to do. I have and will be keeping a manual trans if that makes a difference (no auto transmission functions needed) -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control I see on the website thag the IAC mod kit won't work with the standard Microquirt, only the module board. Would i miss not having an IAC valve? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6179651)
I see on the website thag the IAC mod kit won't work with the standard Microquirt, only the module board. Would i miss not having an IAC valve? This is the most common one: http://www.efisource.com/shop/micros...epper-adapter/ But I prefer this one: http://efi.ttrignition.com/products.html Might have to email him. That one converts a PWM signal to a stepper. You can also build one. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control I like what you're suggesting, looks much more sturdy and easier to package than a megasquirt. Any thing else i should know? I'm new to this, trying to make sure i'm covering my bases. thanks, harrison |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6180040)
I like what you're suggesting, looks much more sturdy and easier to package than a megasquirt. Any thing else i should know? I'm new to this, trying to make sure i'm covering my bases. thanks, harrison The Megasquirt can run two operating systems B&G and Ms2extra. They are functionally different, and when google searching a lot of the information is based on the B&G software, which doesn't apply to Ms2extra. This causes a lot of confusion and problems. Again, I prefer the Microsquirt module because you can stick it in a stock ECM case and it's very expandable. The way mine is setup (first link I sent you) It's plug and play with my factory '88 TPI harness. The only thing I had to do was use the MAF wires for a MAP sensor. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control I ordered the standalone microsquirt with harness yesterday, along with the intake manifold, fuel rails, and throttle body. Today i'm gonna order the rest of the odds and ends I need (fuel line, fuel pump, injectors). Hopefully I can get this up and running before the end of the calendar year. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6182685)
I ordered the standalone microsquirt with harness yesterday, along with the intake manifold, fuel rails, and throttle body. Today i'm gonna order the rest of the odds and ends I need (fuel line, fuel pump, injectors). Hopefully I can get this up and running before the end of the calendar year. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Not yet, i wanted to confirm with you what (i think) i found on the internet: Chrysler and GM IACs are basically the same right? The Holley TB i ordered comes with a Chrysler IAC but all other sensors are GM style. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6183260)
Not yet, i wanted to confirm with you what (i think) i found on the internet: Chrysler and GM IACs are basically the same right? The Holley TB i ordered comes with a Chrysler IAC but all other sensors are GM style. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Well dangit. Guess I need to find a different throttle body then |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6183512)
Well dangit. Guess I need to find a different throttle body then MS has the ability to do a IAC test so you can command the pintle in and out. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, i’d like to maintain my stock tachometer after this swap. Can I just tap into the appropriate wire to run the tach and give a signal to the Microsquirt? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6185817)
Joe, i’d like to maintain my stock tachometer after this swap. Can I just tap into the appropriate wire to run the tach and give a signal to the Microsquirt? I'm using a factory TPI wiring harness, so my Microsquirt (module) has a Delphi56 end on it (86-89 TPI, TBI) What are you doing and which harness did you order? Are you running all new connectors to your sensors, ignition, etc, or splicing it into an existing harness? -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6179651)
Would i miss not having an IAC valve? PS. On a nerdy level I just got my book back from being autographed by Jerry Hoffmann and Matt Cramer! They had to "fix" my MS3 extra after the interior fire. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...cc0837cd15.jpg |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by Tibo
(Post 6185918)
Tough call. When you first start to tune any ecm on a new engine you want to tune it with the IAC motor turned off. I am always able to somewhat tune for stumbles with added ignition timing in the lower rpm and vacuum cells of the ignition table. Once the engine can idle efficiently and recover from deceleration I turn on the IAC motor and then tune the IAC. The IAC is great for cold weather starts, to save you on unusual stumbles or if you run A/C or if you are using a higher power accessory and the alternator tries to bog the engine at idle. If you only drive the car in warm months though you would be OK without it. I had no IAC when I ran MegaSquirt I. On newer GM OE stuff, they reply more on spark advance than airflow to stabalize the idle speed. A lot of guys have been ditching IAC's all together on aftermarket builds and just using spark. I have not tried.
Originally Posted by Tibo
(Post 6185918)
PS. On a nerdy level I just got my book back from being autographed by Jerry Hoffmann and Matt Cramer! They had to "fix" my MS3 extra after the interior fire. I wish thirdgen.org had more active EFI discussions. Most of the members here just don't have experience with stuff that is newer than 30 years old, so it's impossible to get healthy discussion. We had a great discussion the other day about using things like ATS's ECOP to troubleshoot ignition problems at specific combustion events. There is really some amazing stuff out there. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6185937)
Both great guys. Are you a member of the 'Guilid of EFI tuners' ? They contribute there regularly. I wish thirdgen.org had more active EFI discussions. Most of the members here just don't have experience with stuff that is newer than 30 years old, so it's impossible to get healthy discussion. We had a great discussion the other day about using things like ATS's ECOP to troubleshoot ignition problems at specific combustion events. There is really some amazing stuff out there. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, I ordered the standalone harness and new sensors, i thought that would be easier than trying to work with the factory stuff since i would have needed to add some stuff. I’ve been making slow progress on this, been busy with work. I’ve got the intake/tb on, waiting on injectors to mount the fuel rails and finish the fuel lines in the engine bay. I wired up a new relay and fuse panel to power everything, gonna mount the ECU next and start wiring in all the sensors. I feel okay about doing the wiring, think my biggest obstacle will be the fuel pump. I bought a new sending unit for a TPI Camaro and put a Walbro 255 on it, but i’m unsure if I want to try to drop the tank myself (working in a 1 car garage at an apartment complex). Also, do you know what kind of connection a carb sending unit would have to the supply line? The new one i got has what i assume is the 16mm fitting on it, and i wonder if the carb unit is just hose clamped on. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6186896)
Joe, I ordered the standalone harness and new sensors, i thought that would be easier than trying to work with the factory stuff since i would have needed to add some stuff. I’ve been making slow progress on this, been busy with work. I’ve got the intake/tb on, waiting on injectors to mount the fuel rails and finish the fuel lines in the engine bay. I wired up a new relay and fuse panel to power everything, gonna mount the ECU next and start wiring in all the sensors. I feel okay about doing the wiring, think my biggest obstacle will be the fuel pump. I bought a new sending unit for a TPI Camaro and put a Walbro 255 on it, but i’m unsure if I want to try to drop the tank myself (working in a 1 car garage at an apartment complex). Also, do you know what kind of connection a carb sending unit would have to the supply line? The new one i got has what i assume is the 16mm fitting on it, and i wonder if the carb unit is just hose clamped on. The return is just a hose clamp if I recall. I went from a -6 to a barb and used FI hose to go between the nipple on the return and the barb. What is the rest of the engine? An LG4? -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Yeah it’s a bone stock LG4 for the time being. One day i might like to put a 350 in there but in reality that’s probably a long way down the road. I bought some AN to 3/8 and 5/16 hardline adapters for the engine bay side, since i’m not running big power, my plan was to re-use the factory feed and return lines so I wouldn’t have to run a new line to the tank. I was hoping to just attach the new sending unit to the old lines and be done... |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, i’ve got most of everything done, i’m working towards trying to fire it up for the first time this weekend, i just have a question about the distributor wiring. The schematic from the microsquirt manual says that I need to run 12V switched power to the ignition coil. I can do this, but i’m wondering where the power went to the coil from the factory harness. there were 7 wires to/from the distributor with the factory harness: 3 going from the base to the coil in the cap and 4 (including 1 ground) that have a weatherpack connector running to the main harness. The 3 in the weather-pack connector go to the hei module in the base of the distrubutor. Did i miss the factory power wire somewhere? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6205081)
Joe, i’ve got most of everything done, i’m working towards trying to fire it up for the first time this weekend, i just have a question about the distributor wiring. The schematic from the microsquirt manual says that I need to run 12V switched power to the ignition coil. I can do this, but i’m wondering where the power went to the coil from the factory harness. there were 7 wires to/from the distributor with the factory harness: 3 going from the base to the coil in the cap and 4 (including 1 ground) that have a weatherpack connector running to the main harness. The 3 in the weather-pack connector go to the hei module in the base of the distrubutor. Did i miss the factory power wire somewhere? On the small cap, you have 2 plugs that go to the module. One from the main harness which has 4 wires. A second with two wires which go to one side of the coil. Then the other side of the coil has a white and red wire going to the main harness. On a large cap dizzy like I'm running (I.e L98 Corvette), you have a large connector with 4 wires that goes to the main harness. A two-wire connector that goes from the module to the cap.Then you have an individual thick red power wire, and a white tach wire from the main harness that goes to the cap. I've gone back and forth in my head about which is better. I have a billet large cap right now, but I noticed the cap retention kinda blows and I bet it has some spark scatter. I have a billet small cap on the shelf, but mounting a remote coil with the miniram kinda sucks. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6205277)
I have a billet small cap on the shelf, but mounting a remote coil with the miniram kinda sucks. -- Joe https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...5780788473.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...dceaa041a8.jpg |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6205277)
Are you using a large cap or small cap dizzy? On the small cap, you have 2 plugs that go to the module. One from the main harness which has 4 wires. A second with two wires which go to one side of the coil. Then the other side of the coil has a white and red wire going to the main harness. On a large cap dizzy like I'm running (I.e L98 Corvette), you have a large connector with 4 wires that goes to the main harness. A two-wire connector that goes from the module to the cap.Then you have an individual thick red power wire, and a white tach wire from the main harness that goes to the cap. I've gone back and forth in my head about which is better. I have a billet large cap right now, but I noticed the cap retention kinda blows and I bet it has some spark scatter. I have a billet small cap on the shelf, but mounting a remote coil with the miniram kinda sucks. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6205354)
is there a third option? I think it's a large cap (no external coil). I have the flat 4 wire connector, and the only other connector is a 3 wire plug that goes into the coil on the right side of the distributor (looking at the engine from the front). I don't think I have any other wires. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control [QUOTE=Tibo;6205307]A bent piece of 18 gauge steel, two rivets and three machine thread bolts with a sprinkling of paint. That worked out pretty good :) I want to switch to CNP, but don't want to sandwich my crank trigger between my balancer and pulley. When I have some ambition, I'll weld it to a stock crank pulley. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6205462)
Nope. You definately have a thick red power wire, and a thin white tach wire that goes to the coil. What year/application is the harness? I should have a schematic. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control [QUOTE=anesthes;6205463]
Originally Posted by Tibo
(Post 6205307)
A bent piece of 18 gauge steel, two rivets and three machine thread bolts with a sprinkling of paint. That worked out pretty good :) I want to switch to CNP, but don't want to sandwich my crank trigger between my balancer and pulley. When I have some ambition, I'll weld it to a stock crank pulley. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control [QUOTE=Tibo;6205469]
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6205463)
I've wondered, why don't more people use the MSD distributor for the crank trigger as opposed to the trigger on the crank? Is there an issue with the MSD distributor style? The Ms needs a crank trigger of some sort. I imagine if the dizzy has enough teeth it would work. I'd think you need at least 60x to have enough resolution. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe i’m sorry for all the questions but i’m confused here. My distributor setup doesn’t seem to match either of the discriptjons you gave. I have a flat 4 wire connector and a 3 prong connector going to the coil. There doesn’t seem to be another spot for a connection of any kind to the coil (for tach or power). What am I missing here? Did the previous owner do some weird stuff in here or am I a dummy? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6205550)
Joe i’m sorry for all the questions but i’m confused here. My distributor setup doesn’t seem to match either of the discriptjons you gave. I have a flat 4 wire connector and a 3 prong connector going to the coil. There doesn’t seem to be another spot for a connection of any kind to the coil (for tach or power). What am I missing here? Did the previous owner do some weird stuff in here or am I a dummy? https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...1d2f2f748e.jpg The 4 wire connector goes to the main harness. The other connector goes from the base to the cap. The middle wire is ground. If you look at the cap: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fc052441e5.jpg You'll see it takes a fat red power, and small white tach. These should be part of the main harness. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, thanks for holding my hand for a minute there. I’ve got everything hooked up and i’ve gotten the car to fire and run! I’m really happy that all my stuff seems to be working properly. I was starting to wonder if i bit off more than I could chew here. I’m trying to get my idle stabilised before i take it out on the street, and i have a question about ignition timing. Since i have a 12x12 table for spark advance, what kind of timing should i be seeing at low RPMs (idle, 2000)? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6208034)
Joe, thanks for holding my hand for a minute there. I’ve got everything hooked up and i’ve gotten the car to fire and run! I’m really happy that all my stuff seems to be working properly. I was starting to wonder if i bit off more than I could chew here. I’m trying to get my idle stabilised before i take it out on the street, and i have a question about ignition timing. Since i have a 12x12 table for spark advance, what kind of timing should i be seeing at low RPMs (idle, 2000)? https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c856de3107.jpg |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Another important area for aftermarket hoped up engines that Joe's table illustrates is a stable idle region. You should be able to get your idle steady to a single cell, maybe two, but you should expand the numbers out to the periphery cells. Doing it that way admits that the idle may be somewhat dynamic and if it enters a neighboring cell it keeps the fueling and spark requirements the same so you aren't entering into a wandering idle situation brought on by a different value in every cell. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, thanks for that information, i don’t have enough timing i think, i’ve got like 10-12 degrees. Lol. tibo, i was reading somewhere else on the internet that you can create a row approx 300rpm under your target idle speed and give it some more timing, so that if your idle speed drops it will increase the timing and speed the idle back up. Your thoughts on that? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6208401)
i was reading somewhere else on the internet that you can create a row approx 300rpm under your target idle speed and give it some more timing, so that if your idle speed drops it will increase the timing and speed the idle back up. Your thoughts on that? |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Like that tactic vs using the idle spark adder ? -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Joe, i’ve got everything running now (made a 70 mile trip yesterday). Seems like everything is working, now i’m just trying to get it tuned. My gas gauge is reading incorrectly now. I ordered a replacement sending unit for a (89?) EFI car and put my Walbro 255 on that. Is there a resistance difference or something on the later senders? Or is my float arm getting stuck on something? It seems to read about 1/2 tank all the time now. Any advice would be appreciated. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control So what is the point of swapping out this ECM for stock? More reliable? Easier to tune? Can't use HP tuners with this I assume. |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by AssaulT/A
(Post 6215146)
Joe, i’ve got everything running now (made a 70 mile trip yesterday). Seems like everything is working, now i’m just trying to get it tuned. My gas gauge is reading incorrectly now. I ordered a replacement sending unit for a (89?) EFI car and put my Walbro 255 on that. Is there a resistance difference or something on the later senders? Or is my float arm getting stuck on something? It seems to read about 1/2 tank all the time now. Any advice would be appreciated. My cluster is having problems too - like you I have a brand new spectra sender. My fuel gauge reads 1/2 when it's full, my tach sometimes jumps, especially when my turn signal is on. Something I have to deal with soon . -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control
Originally Posted by Chopski
(Post 6215185)
So what is the point of swapping out this ECM for stock? More reliable? Easier to tune? Can't use HP tuners with this I assume. -- Joe |
Re: Megasquirt Distributor Control Oh ok. Thanks. |
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