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Manual Brake Installation with Pictures 10 Attachment(s) I mocked up a prototype manual brake system on a 1991 Firebird. This system requires a 2.0” hole to be drilled in the firewall and a 31/64” hole to be drilled in the pedal. Attachment 323831 The 2.0” hole drilled in the firewall allows the use of the upper two holes that the brake booster bracket utilized and allows a master cylinder to bolt up. This arrangement allows for a 6 to 1 pedal ratio. Attachment 323832 With a true 6 to 1 pedal ratio and using the upper bolt holes in the firewall, you also get good pushrod alignment with the master cylinder piston. The 31/64” hole, that will be drilled into the brake pedal arm, is good for the ½” stud/pin to be pressed into the pedal with an optimal interference fit with zero stud/pin play. To utilize the ½” stud/pin that is pressed into the brake pedal arm, I made a custom clevis with a ½” hole for the stud/pin. The clevis is machined to use a 5/16” diameter pushrod with fine threads. Here are the items used for the pushrod assembly. Attachment 323833 A custom CNC aluminum plate was machined to cover up the original power booster hole and allow GM, Ford, or Mopar style master cylinder to be utilized in the upper holes. A retention cup will also be fabricated and pressed into the plate to retain the pushrod so it doesn't fall out the back of the master cylinder. Here is the plate bolted to the firewall. Attachment 323834 Attachment 323835 Attachment 323836 To utilize a Ford or Mopar style master cylinder, the upper passenger side mounting bolt hole in the firewall will have to drilled out to a ½” in diameter (before the adapter plate is installed) because these master cylinders have a narrower bolt pattern than a GM master cylinder. Because the third generation F-bodies have significant firewall flex, the prototype manual brake setup utilizes a ½” thick aluminum plate under the dash between the firewall and the brake pedal assembly. This plate overlaps the contours of the firewall to reduce firewall flex significantly. I will utilize a 7/8” bore master cylinder because the smaller diameter bore allows for greater pressure in the system and is sized to provide great clamping forces for the stock 2.5” piston calipers. Here is the system mocked up on the firewall utilizing an old 7/8” bore Mopar style master cylinder I had lying around. Attachment 323837 Attachment 323838 Attachment 323837 http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...626b63beee.jpg Attachment 323840 From the factory, the stock calipers are LOW drag. LOW drag calipers will require a step bore master cylinder. Step bore master cylinders have two bores. The secondary, pressure bore is 24mm, which in my opinion, is too large to operate manual brakes. Also, the master cylinder does not have a mechanism to retain the pushrod. If the pushrod falls away from the master cylinder piston, the car will loose all its brakes. NON low drag (normal) calipers are available that will bolt in to systems utilizing the stock 10.5" front brakes. I like the Centric brand rebuilt units. The part numbers are 14162066 and 14162065 (left and right hand side) and have the stock 2.5” piston diameters. AFCO just released some brand new cast iron castings with stock 2.5” bore. The part numbers for these are 6635003 and 6635004 for left and right hand side calipers. The ports on the Mopar style master cylinder are 3/8-24 and will utilize this size line to mate up to the stock prop valve. I just need to figure out the prop valve inlet thread size to see if there are any adapters to mate to the 3/8-24 line fittings. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I did some measuring of the brake pedal assembly to find out what the stock power assist, vacuum booster pedal ratio would be. I also did the calculations of the manual brake system output at the master cylinder using different pedal ratios and master cylinder bore sizes. Stock pedal length from center of pivot point to center of pedal pad is 12.0” BOOSTED PEDAL RATIO Distance from center of pivot point to center of power booster pin/stud location is 3.75” 12 χ 3.75 = 3.2 to 1 pedal ratio MANUAL BRAKE PEDAL RATIO On the F-body pedal, I moved the pin/stud location up on the pedal where it was 2.0” down from the pivot point. 12 χ 2 = 6 to 1 pedal ratio I wanted to make sure my manual brakes have enough pedal ratio to create the greatest amount of leverage with roughly 1.0” of master cylinder piston travel. In this case, the 6 to 1 ratio worked out to be 1.0” (give or take a 1/16 of an inch). After reading some of the other posts on their manual brake conversion, they moved the stud up 1.0” from the power boosted pin location. 12 χ 2.75 = 4.4 to 1 pedal ratio For most brake systems, a 7/8” bore master cylinder will work well and create greater pressure than the larger 1.03” bore master cylinders. Area of master cylinder bore: • 7/8” bore master cylinder – 0.601 square inches • 24mm bore master cylinder – 0.701 square inches • 1-1/32” bore master cylinder – 0.836 square inches If 100 pounds of pressure is applied to the brake pedal and a 6 to 1 pedal ratio: • 7/8” bore master cylinder will create 998 psi of manual pressure • 24mm bore master cylinder will create 886 psi of manual pressure • 1-1/32” bore master cylinder will create 720 psi of manual pressure If 100 pounds of pressure is applied to the brake pedal and a 4.4 to 1 pedal ratio: • 7/8” bore master cylinder will create 732 psi of manual pressure • 24mm bore master cylinder will create 628 psi of manual pressure • 1-1/32” bore master cylinder will create 528 psi of manual pressure VACUUM BOOSTED BRAKES PSI If 100 pounds of pressure is applied to the brake pedal and a 3.2 to 1 pedal ratio: • 24mm (stock size) secondary bore master cylinder will create 456 psi of manual pressure • Area of a 9.0” dual diaphragm vacuum booster – 127.12 square inches • 18 in Hg of vacuum converted to psi – 8.8 psi • 127.12 square inches multiplied by 8.8 psi equals 1119 psi of vacuum boosted pressure • 456 psi of manual pressure plus 1119 psi of vacuum boosted pressure is 1575 psi of pressure Hopefully the vacuum boosted pressure is accurate. I am assuming that both diaphragms have the same area. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures 1 Attachment(s) Here is the brake pedal assembly mocked up with the manual brake setup off the car. I wanted to make sure that here was no contact with the pushrod retention cup. The pushrod retention cup makes sure that the pushrod does not fall away from the back of the master cylinder piston. If the pushrod falls away from the back of the master cylinder piston, you will have ZERO brakes. For this mock up, the bottom stainless steel button head bolts for the adapter plate where not needed. From left to right: 7/8" Bore Master Cylinder 1/8" Thick Aluminum Adapter Plate with Pushrod Retention Cup that installs in engine bay 1/2" Thick Aluminum Firewall Brace that will install under dash Stock Brake pedal Assembly Bracket. Attachment 323586 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Stock third generation (1982-1992) F-body front 10.5” front brake rotors and front brake calipers interchange with: • 1978-1988 RWD A/G-body Cars (1978 and some 1979 g-body rotors used smaller outer wheel bearings and will not interchange with newer models) • 1982-2003 RWD S10 Trucks and SUVs with 10.5” rotors From 1978 -1981 A/G-body cars used normal front brake calipers and a 7/8” strait bore (normal) master cylinder in factory manual brake equipped cars. Vacuum assisted cars used a 24mm strait bore (normal) master cylinder. The manual brake equipped vehicles came with a 6 to 1 pedal ratio. After 1982, there were no manual brake equipped g-bodies from the factory. After 1982, the brake calipers on third generation f-bodies, g-bodies, and S10 trucks/SUVs where manufactured with low drag seals and were commonly called LOW drag calipers. These LOW drag calipers were designed with a seal with a beveled edge. This beveled edged seal “pulled” back the caliper piston further into the brake caliper bore and increase the amount of space between the rotor and the brake pad. This was an effort to increase gas mileage. Because the LOW drag caliper “pulled” the pads farther away from the rotor, more brake fluid volume is needed to get the pads back up against the rotor. To remedy this, GM engineers used a step bore master cylinder which had two different size bores. The primary, larger bore to move the volume and a smaller, secondary bore to create pressure. When the brake pedal is pressed, the larger bore moved the volume of fluid needed to get the pads back up against the rotor without additional pedal travel. Once a certain pressure is reached inside the master cylinder, an internal bypass valve would activate, and the smaller, secondary bore would allow sufficient pressure to clamp the pads against the rotors and stop the car. First generation S10 trucks came from the factory with manual brakes, LOW drag calipers, and a step bore master cylinder. The step bore master cylinder’s smaller secondary bore of the manual brake equipped master cylinder was 24mm. In my opinion, you do not want to try and make a step bore master cylinder work with any manual brake setup. The step bore master cylinder is: • more complicated to bleed because of the internal bypass valve • secondary, 24mm bore is too large for the stock size of the calipers being used to create enough pressure • the internal bypass valve may and can malfunction • no way to retain the pushrod against the back of the master cylinder piston • New step bore master cylinders are cast iron • Step bore master cylinders are physically larger than most other master cylinders A good, simple matched system for manual brakes would be: • Stock size (2.5” piston) front calipers (new and rebuilt units are most likely normal, NON low drag) • A normal, 7/8” strait bore master cylinder • 6 to 1 pedal ratio. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures The 7/8" master cylinder that I will be using has 3/8-24 inch outlets. These outlets will have to mate up to 12x1.5 inlet on the proportioning valve for the rear brakes (front port on the master cylinder) and 11x1.5 inlet on the proportioning valve for the front brakes (rear inlet port on the master cylinder). For the rear brake lines running from the front port of the master cylinder to the front port of the proportioning valve, use Edelmann part number 262400 installed in the front inlet port of the proportioning valve and Brakequip part number BQ47 in the front port of the master cylinder. I will then bend up a 20" hard line of 1/4" diameter tubing with 7/16-24 inch fittings. The hard line is Edelmann Part # 420PVF or 420ST. Any 20" long 1/4" line with 7/16-24 fitting should work. For the front brake lines running from the rear port of the master cylinder to the rear port of the proportioning valve, use Edelmann part number 264000 installed in the rear inlet port of the proportioning valve. I will then bend up a 20" hard line of 3/16" diameter tubing with 3/8-24 inch fittings. The hard line is Edelmann Part # 320PVF or 320ST. Any 20" long 3/16 line with 3/8-24 fitting should work. Here are the part numbers you need to mate the master cylinder with 3/8-24 inch outlets to a proportioning valve with 12x1.5 and 11x1.5 inlet sizes. Any 20 inch long, 3/16 inch outside diameter tube with 3/8-24 inch fittings. Edelmann Part # 320PVF or 320ST for reference. Any 20 inch long, 1/4 inch outside diameter tube with 7/16-24 inch fittings. Edelmann Part # 420PVF or 420ST for reference. Edelmann Part # 262400 - 12x1.5 bubble flare male to 7/16-24 inch inverted flare female. Edelmann Part # 264000 - 11x1.5 bubble flare male to 3/8-24 inch inverted flare female. Brakequip Part # BQ47 - 3/8-24 inch inverted flare male to 7/16-24 inch inverted flare female. Screws into master cylinder front port which is used for the rear brakes. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I like the plate that you made. I wish I would have moved mine up like you did. I killed a wildwood master because the push rod wasn't going straight in. I plan on re-doing mine in the near future. If you want to sell another plate,id be interested. pm me. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures 7 Attachment(s) Here are different views the finished manual brake adapter plate if looking at it from the engine bay side. A pushrod retention cup is added to make sure the pushrod does not fall away from the back of the master cylinder piston if brake fluid pressure is lost. The “bump” at the bottom of the adapter plate is to completely cover the hole that the brake booster bracket used. Attachment 323286Attachment 323287http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...08DC71CD4D.jpg The below picture is the backside of the adapter plate that will mount against the firewall. The pushrod retention cup will install through the 2.0" hole drilled in the firewall. Attachment 323288 The below picture is the matching gasket for the manual brake adapter plate. The gasket will be sandwiched between the firewall after it is slid over the top of the retention cup in the above picture. Attachment 323289 The below picture is the manual brake adjustable pushrod installed in the retention cup. The pushrod has provisions to keep it captured inside the pushrod retention cup. You would see this view from the engine bay before the master cylinder is installed and after you installed your adjustable pushrod assembly to the brake pedal arm. Attachment 323290 The below picture is the manual brake adjustable pushrod installed in the cup. You would see this view from under the dash after the adjustable pushrod assembly is installed on the brake pedal arm. Attachment 323291 The below picture is the 1/2" thick aluminum firewall brace. It is installed under the dash, between the firewall and the brake pedal assembly bracket. The firewall brace is extended toward the driver side and bottom do take advantage of the stamped portion of the firewall. It significantly reduces firewall flex. Attachment 323292 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Below is an analysis using the Brake Torque Calculator found on Pro-Touring.com. This calculator will give you an idea of what brake torque is for a certain front and rear setups. I am just going to show the changes from the stock, third generation front f-body brake system and compare them to a stock LS1 Camaro brake swap, a LS1 Camaro brake swap with Corvette calipers Page 7, Post #140 http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/1...of-KORE3/page7 This entire post is a really good read if you are interested about brakes. Here are the inputs that are the same for ALL different types of brake systems shown below. • 6 to 1 pedal ratio • 26” tall tire • 100 ft/lb pedal pressure • Manual Brakes – NO POWER ASSIST • Pad Coefficient of Friction - .45 • Use of stock type (tandem) master cylinder ____________________________________________________ Stock G-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body Front Brake System • Rotor Diameter – 10.5” • 7/8” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .601 sq-in • Line Pressure – 998 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 4.909 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 4899 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 964 ft/lb • Tire Forces – 890 lb ____________________________________________________ Stock LS1 Camaro/Firebird Front Brake System • Rotor Diameter – 12” • 7/8” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .601 sq-in • Line Pressure – 998 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 4.931 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 4921 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 1107 ft/lb • Tire Forces – 1022 lb ____________________________________________________ Stock LS1 Camaro/Firebird Front Brake System with Corvette Calipers with 7/8” bore master cylinder • Rotor Diameter – 12” • 7/8” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .601 sq-in • Line Pressure – 998 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 3.994 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 3986 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 897 ft/lb • Tire Forces – 828 lb Stock LS1 Camaro/Firebird Front Brake System with Corvette Calipers with 21mm bore master cylinder • Rotor Diameter – 12” • 21mm Bore Master Cylinder Area - .537 sq-in • Line Pressure – 1117 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 3.994 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 4461 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 1004 ft/lb • Tire Forces – 927 lb Rating from best to worst: 1. LS1 Camaro / Firebird stock front brakes with 7/8" bore master cylinder. 2. LS1 Camaro / Firebird front brakes with Corvette brake calipers and a 21mm bore master cylinder. NOTE: A 21mm master cylinders are fairly rare and hard to find. 3. Stock g-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body stock front brake system with 7/8" bore master cylinder. 4. LS1 Camaro / Firebird front brakes with Corvette brake calipers and a 7/8” bore master cylinder. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures how big of a difference is there from a 7/8 mc to a 1in mc? im using the strange 1-1/8 now, but im going to send my 1in wilwood back to get rebuilt. im using these on the front http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...per,24192.html are those non low drag? |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by loneroad
(Post 6007998)
how big of a difference is there from a 7/8 mc to a 1in mc? im using the strange 1-1/8 now, but im going to send my 1in wilwood back to get rebuilt. im using these on the front http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...per,24192.html are those non low drag? Here are the inputs that are the same for ALL different types of brake systems shown below. • 6 to 1 pedal ratio • 26” tall tire • 100 ft/lb pedal pressure • Manual Brakes – NO POWER ASSIST • Pad Coefficient of Friction - .45 • Use of stock type (tandem) master cylinder ____________________________________________________ 2.5” Piston Caliper with 7/8” bore master cylinder. Stock G-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body Front Brake System. • Rotor Diameter – 10.5” • 7/8” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .601 sq-in • Line Pressure – 998 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 4.909 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 4899 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 964 ft/lb • Tire Forces – 890 lb ____________________________________________________ 2.75” Piston Caliper with 24mm bore master cylinder. Stock G-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body Front Brake System. • Rotor Diameter – 10.5” • 24mm Bore Master Cylinder Area - .701 sq-in • Line Pressure – 856 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 5.94 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 5085 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 1001 ft/lb. This is a 3.83% INCREASE over stock caliper and 7/8” bore master cylinder. • Tire Forces – 924 lb ____________________________________________________ 2.75” Piston Caliper with a 1.0” bore master cylinder. Stock G-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body Front Brake System. • Rotor Diameter – 10.5” • 1.0” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .785 sq-in • Line Pressure – 764 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 5.94 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 4538 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 893 ft/lb. This is a 7.37% DECREASE over stock caliper and 7/8” bore master cylinder. • Tire Forces – 824 lb ____________________________________________________ 2.75” Piston Caliper with a 1.125” bore master cylinder. Stock G-body/S10/3rd Generation F-body Front Brake System. • Rotor Diameter – 10.5” • 1.0” Bore Master Cylinder Area - .994 sq-in • Line Pressure – 604 psi • Front Caliper Piston Area – 5.94 sq-in • Front Clamping Pressure – 3588 pounds • Front Rotor Torque – 706 ft/lb. This is a 26.76% DECREASE over stock caliper and 7/8” bore master cylinder. • Tire Forces – 652 lb I tested the 2.75" Wilwoods with the 24mm bore master cylinder. I did get a slightly longer pedal stroke with the 2.75" calipers and 24mm bore master cylinder over the 2.5" caliper and 7/8" bore master cylinder, but there was not a big difference in performance between the two setups. David Schultz www.manualbrakes.com - PROUD THIRDGEN.ORG SPONSOR MANUAL BRAKE KITS |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures does the formulas change if I have the 2.75 on all four corners? I have the 9in weld on disc kit w/ ebrake. I have had continuous problems with those calipers. Im thinking of taking those off and running the wilwoods all around. Will your kit require residual valves? |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by loneroad
(Post 6008031)
does the formulas change if I have the 2.75 on all four corners? I have the 9in weld on disc kit w/ ebrake. I have had continuous problems with those calipers. Im thinking of taking those off and running the wilwoods all around Goto: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/1...of-KORE3/page7 Page 7, Post #140 Click on the link to load the excel file and you can input all your data. You can plug all of your information and get a total tire force when the front and the rear brake systems are added together. Keep in mind that the calculations will not let you know if the size of the master cylinder chosen will work for your brake system. You can put in a small value for the master cylinder bore diameter and get outstanding braking performance, but can this bore size of that master cylinder supply the fluid needed to fill the calipers up complete and apply fluid pressure to stop the car. David Schultz www.manualbrakes.com - PROUD THIRDGEN.ORG SPONSOR MANUAL BRAKE KITS |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures 1 Attachment(s) |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Master Cylinder Bleeding Proceedures for a strait bore master cylinder. NOTE: DO NOT bench bleed a master cylinder on the car. There may not be enough piston travel when bolted on the car. Use a vise to hold the master cylinder level to the ground to bleed the master cylinder of all its air. I like to use plugs to bleed the master cylinder of air instead of the procedure that uses hoses to recirculate the fluid from the master cylinder ports back up to the reservoir. Why? When using plugs to close off the ports of the master cylinder, this procedure will let you know if all the air is out of the master cylinder AND if the master cylinder is bad. You don't want to find out your master cylinder is bad after you have it installed and are trying to bleed the rest of the system. You most likely will not get all the air out of the system when your master cylinder is bad. New or rebuilt, it is always good to make sure your master cylinder is in good working order before bolting it onto the car. It will be one less thing you have to trouble shoot if you run into other issues when you are trying to trouble shoot braking issues. Steps to bleeding a master cylinder: 1. Mount the master cylinder in a vise with the bore of the master cylinder level with the ground. Do not use the top of the reservoir as a guide because is may not be level with the bore of the master cylinder. It may be at an angle versus the bore of the master cylinder. 2. Use the appropriate size solid plugs to plug the outlets of the master cylinder so no fluid can escape the ports. 3. Fill the master cylinder with the appropriate amount of brake fluid. 4. Use a rod to SLOWLY cycle the master cylinder piston in its bore. DO NOT use a flat head or phillips heat screwdriver because they have sharp edges and could harm the bore of the master cylinder. I usually use a nut driver that is used for Ό drive sockets as a rod because the end does not have any sharp edges and there is a handle to hold onto. 5. After cycling the master cylinder piston SLOWLY a few times, the piston should become rock solid and only move about 1/16 of an inch or less down the bore. 6. After the piston becomes rock solid, push in on the master cylinder piston and hold for 45 seconds. If the piston slowly moves down the bore of the master cylinder, you have a bad master cylinder. If the piston says rock solid and does not move, you master cylinder is good. 7. Mount to your car and bleed the rest of your system starting with the brakes furthest away (passenger rear) from the master cylinder and working your way to the closest (drivers front) brake. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures 1 Attachment(s) I pulled this information from the CPP website. I include this information on this thread because, during a manual brake conversion, the differential valve in the proportioning/combination valve may be triggered and cause only one side of the system to work resulting in poor braking performance. The differential valve is built into most GM prop valves. It is for safety. If one side, front or rear, of the brake system looses pressure, the differential valve is triggered blocking off the low pressure side of the brake system so that the master cylinder can still provide pressure to the other side of the brake system. This ensures that there is some for of braking as a way to stop the vehicle. If a differential valve was not part of the braking system, and there is a loss of pressure in one side of the system, the master cylinder would not be able to build pressure. This would result in NO brakes. Combination/Proportioning Valve Test Use a test light by attaching a clip to a positive contact on the vehicle and touch the point of the tester to the electrical connection of the combination valve. If the the light does NOT come on, the valve system is operating correctly and no further testing is required. If the light does come on, this indicates that the pressure differential valve is stuck in the front or rear position. Bleed the brake system to determine if the front or rear lines are blocked off. Set up one front wheel and one rear wheel for bleeding at the same time. Crack both bleeder screws and gently pump the pedal a few times. The blocked side will trickle fluid out when the bleeder screw is cracked and the pedal pressed. An unblocked line will squirt fluid out the bleeder. The lines that are clear must be left open and the blocked lines should have the bleeder screws tight to cause pressure to build up on that side. Be sure to use the standard bleeding procedures to prevent air from entering the system. Slowly press the pedal with steady pressure a number of times until the light goes out; this will center the differential valve. You may also hear a pop come from the proportioning valve. This is the metering valve returning to its equalized position. When the light goes out, close the bleeder screw. (See fig. below) Attachment 314529 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I ordered your kit to install but not all the parts showed up in the kit. Looks like the box was opened before I got it...... gotta love usps. I will call you tomorrow about this. Plus side though is the pieces that did show look really nice and of good quality. For all the rest of you guys that are thinking about this. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by izcain
(Post 6192543)
I ordered your kit to install but not all the parts showed up in the kit. Looks like the box was opened before I got it...... gotta love usps. I will call you tomorrow about this. Plus side though is the pieces that did show look really nice and of good quality. For all the rest of you guys that are thinking about this. Phone: 832-264-5566 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by malibudave
(Post 6192608)
Sorry about the issues with shipping. Please give me a call and let me know what is missing so I can get it shipped to you as soon as possible. Phone: 832-264-5566 If the kit goes in anything like your attitude it will rock! |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by izcain
(Post 6192666)
Dave thanks for your time and I appreciate your help and fast service! If the kit goes in anything like your attitude it will rock! |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by manualbrakes.com
(Post 5961346)
I mocked up a prototype manual brake system on a 1991 Firebird. This system requires a 2.0 hole to be drilled in the firewall and a 31/64 hole to be drilled in the pedal. Attachment 323831 The 2.0 hole drilled in the firewall allows the use of the upper two holes that the brake booster bracket utilized and allows a master cylinder to bolt up. This arrangement allows for a 6 to 1 pedal ratio. Attachment 323832 With a true 6 to 1 pedal ratio and using the upper bolt holes in the firewall, you also get good pushrod alignment with the master cylinder piston. The 31/64 hole, that will be drilled into the brake pedal arm, is good for the ½ stud/pin to be pressed into the pedal with an optimal interference fit with zero stud/pin play. To utilize the ½ stud/pin that is pressed into the brake pedal arm, I made a custom clevis with a ½ hole for the stud/pin. The clevis is machined to use a 5/16 diameter pushrod with fine threads. Here are the items used for the pushrod assembly. Attachment 323833 A custom CNC aluminum plate was machined to cover up the original power booster hole and allow GM, Ford, or Mopar style master cylinder to be utilized in the upper holes. A retention cup will also be fabricated and pressed into the plate to retain the pushrod so it doesn't fall out the back of the master cylinder. Here is the plate bolted to the firewall. Attachment 323834 Attachment 323835 Attachment 323836 To utilize a Ford or Mopar style master cylinder, the upper passenger side mounting bolt hole in the firewall will have to drilled out to a ½ in diameter (before the adapter plate is installed) because these master cylinders have a narrower bolt pattern than a GM master cylinder. Because the third generation F-bodies have significant firewall flex, the prototype manual brake setup utilizes a ½ thick aluminum plate under the dash between the firewall and the brake pedal assembly. This plate overlaps the contours of the firewall to reduce firewall flex significantly. I will utilize a 7/8 bore master cylinder because the smaller diameter bore allows for greater pressure in the system and is sized to provide great clamping forces for the stock 2.5 piston calipers. Here is the system mocked up on the firewall utilizing an old 7/8 bore Mopar style master cylinder I had lying around. Attachment 323837 Attachment 323838 Attachment 323837 https://i724.photobucket.com/albums/...626b63beee.jpg Attachment 323840 From the factory, the stock calipers are LOW drag. LOW drag calipers will require a step bore master cylinder. Step bore master cylinders have two bores. The secondary, pressure bore is 24mm, which in my opinion, is too large to operate manual brakes. Also, the master cylinder does not have a mechanism to retain the pushrod. If the pushrod falls away from the master cylinder piston, the car will loose all its brakes. NON low drag (normal) calipers are available that will bolt in to systems utilizing the stock 10.5" front brakes. I like the Centric brand rebuilt units. The part numbers are 14162066 and 14162065 (left and right hand side) and have the stock 2.5 piston diameters. AFCO just released some brand new cast iron castings with stock 2.5 bore. The part numbers for these are 6635003 and 6635004 for left and right hand side calipers. The ports on the Mopar style master cylinder are 3/8-24 and will utilize this size line to mate up to the stock prop valve. I just need to figure out the prop valve inlet thread size to see if there are any adapters to mate to the 3/8-24 line fittings. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by jasper21
(Post 6409794)
I have an 85 Trans Am am trying to find the "clip" for the PIN pressed into the Brake peddle? do u kno the name or part number? I doubt there is one for that. The junkyard pick a part would be the best bet. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures In a manual brake system, the master cylinder size you choose should be dictated by the total volume of your brake system (calipers and wheel cylinder) and what type of seat you sit in to drive. What difference does a seat make? When you are putting your effort into pressing the brake pedal to stop the car, the seat cushion does not supply a lot of support. Some of your effort that you apply to the brake pedal is also pushing yourself back into the cushion. The effort you use to press the brake pedal is less effective because some of that effort is waster as your body sinks into the seat cushion. The more effort you apply to the pedal will also sink you deeper into the seat cushion. If you have a racing seat (i.e. Kirkey), it has little to no cushion as it is made of aluminum. A hard back seat like a Kirkey will give you more leverage and allow most of the effort you apply to the pedal tas your body is supported by a hard surface and not a soft seat cushion. If you have a racing type seat, you can get away with a larger bore master cylinder. Some people use 1-1/8” in diameter and have no issues when using a racing seat. A larger bore master cylinder will require more effort to stop the car for a given front and rear brake setup. A smaller bore will require less effort to stop the car for the same front and rear brake setup as the larger bore master cylinder. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Does anybody know if the guy selling these manual brakes kits is still up and running?? Was looking to get a shipping quote to Canada but haven't heard anything for weeks |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by thatsupnow
(Post 6431669)
Does anybody know if the guy selling these manual brakes kits is still up and running?? Was looking to get a shipping quote to Canada but haven't heard anything for weeks Email me at: david.schultz@manualbrakes.com Call or text me at: 832-264-5566 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Sent you an email with total cost to get it across the border. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by malibudave
(Post 6431674)
Sent you an email with total cost to get it across the border. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I just installed this kit. I took a few pictures to help out but for the pushrod going through the firewall, you only need a slot, not a big hole. Or you can use a large drill bit as Dave shows in his instructions. Kit went well, you just need to adapt to your proportional valve. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...9548c70d1.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0d7e2be76.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...98876a589.jpeg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures A few more. Note that the large washers are on the wrong side of the pushrod, this was just a mock-up. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...3335871f2.jpeg Washers are on the wrong side. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0d5a8b32c.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...9a4f3d147.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...feca465ca.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0a446d268.jpeg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I was converting to a TKX 5 speed and works perfectly with the clutch pedal. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Final install with AN fittings. I used 4an and 3an to match the diameters of the front and rears. The threads are metric bubble so need to convert to inverted flare. More room next to my Pontiac 433 swap, tons of room now. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c69419f2d.jpeg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by soupman
(Post 6439130)
Final install with AN fittings. I used 4an and 3an to match the diameters of the front and rears. The threads are metric bubble so need to convert to inverted flare. More room next to my Pontiac 433 swap, tons of room now. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c69419f2d.jpeg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures It’s not too bad, hardest part reaching under the dash for the brackets bolts. I removed my front seat to make it easier. Also need to convert the brake fittings, send Dave a email he will send the Edelman numbers for the fitting conversion. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by soupman
(Post 6439225)
It’s not too bad, hardest part reaching under the dash for the brackets bolts. I removed my front seat to make it easier. Also need to convert the brake fittings, send Dave a email he will send the Edelman numbers for the fitting conversion. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by thatsupnow
(Post 6439349)
Nice. Yea I've got everything I need for fittings and stuff just need to find some time to actually get it in there ph: 832-264-5566 david.schultz@manualbrakes.com |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Looking at doing this for more room on my turbo setup. How is the overall driving feel and IF we did roadcourse or fun days, would this affect me negatively a large amount? the main thing is fun street driving and some drag racing, though..... |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by NufNuffZ28
(Post 6439363)
Looking at doing this for more room on my turbo setup. How is the overall driving feel and IF we did roadcourse or fun days, would this affect me negatively a large amount? the main thing is fun street driving and some drag racing, though..... Generally: Disc/Drum - 7/8" bore master cylinder Disc/Original Equipment rear disc(rear caliper with a piston area of 3.14 sq in or lower) - 24mm or 15/16" bore Roughly a 2" single piston or 1.375" twin or four piston caliper. Disc/Aftermarket rear disc (rear caliper with a piston area of 3.14 squ in or higher) - 1.0" boreMetric rear calipers, or 1.75" twin or four piston caliper The above recommendation will give you a longer pedal stroke, but it will be easier to stop the car.If you have an Kirkey or composite seat, then usually you can get away with a larger bore master cylinder. Because there is no cushion to these types of seats, the effort you put into the pedal will be applied to the pedal and not pushing you back into a cushioned seat. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures What Master Cylinders Can Be Used with the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate and push rods? NOTE: Always check the bore size of the master cylinder. Dont expect the bore size to be what is advertised. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________________________ 7/8 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Drum Setup Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Dodge Shadow. Needs adapters to work with stock GM brake lines fittings. The part numbers below advertise as a 21mm (0.827), but it verified as a 7/8 bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 21mm, but measure it to make sure it is a 7/8 bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for it to work correctly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 15/16 or 24mm Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Factory Rear Disc Setup Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Dodge Shadow or 1993 Chrysler LeBaron. The part numbers below advertise as a 7/8 (0.875), but it verified as a 24mm bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 7/8, but measure it to make sure it is a 24mm bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders push rod, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for the clevis to be able to attach to the brake pedal.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.0 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Chrysler LeBaron. Needs adapters to work with stock GM brake lines fittings. The part numbers below advertise as a 24mm (0.827), but it verified as a 1.0 bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 24mm, but measure it to make sure it is a 1.0 bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for it to work correctly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.031 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Stock Dodge master cylinder. Cross reference vehicle: 1985 Dodge Diplomat. Can you your existing GM brake line for the front brakes, but you will need to reflare your rear brake line with the correct brake ½-20 IF brake line fitting.
Strange master cylinder.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1-1/6 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Wilwood master cylinder. Can use your existing GM brake line for the front brakes, but you will need to reflare your rear brake line (9/16-18) with the correct brake 9/16-20 IF brake line fitting. I am unsure the difference between the two master cylinders.
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Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Continued.... What Master Cylinders Can Be Used with the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate and push rods? ________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.125” Bore Master Cylinders – Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0” bore or larger master cylinder. Stock Dodge master cylinder. Cross reference vehicle: 1985 D150 Truck.
Strange master cylinder. Can use your existing GM brake line for the front brakes, but you will need to re-flare your rear brake line (9/16-18) with the correct brake 1/2-20 IF brake line fitting.
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Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Can you use a stock master cylinder with the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate and push rod? The stock 1982-1992 F-Body master cylinder is a step bore design. It has two bore sizes. A 36mm volume bore and a 24mm pressure bore. This master cylinder will bolt up to the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate and the push rod can be used with the stock master cylinder, BUT... the master cylinder reservoir is angled because the vacuum booster is mounted to the flat firewall at an angle. The front of the master cylinder actually point up toward the hood when mounted to the vacuum booster, but the top of the reservoir is flat when mounted to the vacuum booster. When the stock master cylinder is mounted to the flat firewall with the manualbrakes.com adapter plate, this allows the master cylinder to point toward the front of the car, but the top of the reservoir will slope down toward the ground. If you want to use the stock master cylinder with the manualbrakes.com adapter plate, you can remove the reservoir and install a 1982-1992 S-10 reservoir. Can you just use the S10 master cylinder instead of the stock F-Body master cylinder? Yes, but the outlets are on different sides of the master cylinder and the outlet sizes may be different. The F-Body master cylinder has the outlets on the passenger side of the master cylinder toward the engine. The S10 master cylinder has the outlets on the driver side of the master cylinder. The S10 master cylinder outlet sizes are 1/2-20 (rear port) and 9/16-18 (front port) and are on the driver side. Early model 3rd Gen F-Bodies (1982 to mid 1984) master cylinder had the 1/2-20 (rear port) and 9/16-18 (front port), but the outlets are are the passenger side. All of the outlet sizes are for inverted flare fittings. Later model 3rd Gen F-bodies (Late 1984 - 1992), the outlet sizes are M11x1.25 (rear port) and M12x1 (front port). and like said above, the outlets come out on the passenger side (engine side) of the master cylinders. These are metric bubble flare outlets sizes. There are currently NO adapters, that I know of, to mate the 9/16-18 (front port) inverted flare of the S-10 master cylinder to the M12x1 metric bubble flare brake line fitting on the 3rd Gen F-Body. There are currently NO adapters, that I know of, to mate the 1/2-20 (rear port) inverted flare of the S-10 master cylinder to the M11x1.5 metric bubble flare brake line fitting on the 3rd Gen F-Body. To use the S-10 master cylinder on the later model 3rd Gen F-Bodies, you will need to reflare the lines to accept the correct inverted flare fittings. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures If using the 1993 Dodge Shadow or 1993 Chrysler LeBaron master cylinders when using the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, there are adapters that will work, but... Keep in mind that you will have to reroute your brake lines from the passenger side of the master cylinder to the driver side of the mater cylinder. For 1982-mid 1984 F-Bodies, use the below adapters from BRAKEQUIP - these will have to ordered from BRAKEQUIP directly or with your MANUALBRAKES.COM order
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Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by malibudave
(Post 6440747)
What Master Cylinders Can Be Used with the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate and push rods? NOTE: Always check the bore size of the master cylinder. Dont expect the bore size to be what is advertised. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________________________ 7/8 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Drum Setup Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Dodge Shadow. Needs adapters to work with stock GM brake lines fittings. The part numbers below advertise as a 21mm (0.827), but it verified as a 7/8 bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 21mm, but measure it to make sure it is a 7/8 bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for it to work correctly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 15/16 or 24mm Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Factory Rear Disc Setup Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Dodge Shadow or 1993 Chrysler LeBaron. The part numbers below advertise as a 7/8 (0.875), but it verified as a 24mm bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 7/8, but measure it to make sure it is a 24mm bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders push rod, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for the clevis to be able to attach to the brake pedal.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.0 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Chrysler style master cylinder used in the MANUALBRAKES.COM kit. Cross reference vehicle: 1993 Chrysler LeBaron. Needs adapters to work with stock GM brake lines fittings. The part numbers below advertise as a 24mm (0.827), but it verified as a 1.0 bore. If you cross reference the below part numbers at the auto parts store, go with the advertised 24mm, but measure it to make sure it is a 1.0 bore.
Wilwood Billet Aluminum Master Cylinder. The Original size and compact size master cylinders will physically bolt up the MANUALBRAKES.COM adapter plate, but the push rod that comes with these master cylinder could be too long (Original Size) or too short (Compact Size) depending on your application. The MANUALBRAKES.COM clevis that comes in the KIT can be used on these master cylinders, but you may need to shorten or lengthen the push rod assembly for it to work correctly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.031 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Stock Dodge master cylinder. Cross reference vehicle: 1985 Dodge Diplomat. Can you your existing GM brake line for the front brakes, but you will need to reflare your rear brake line with the correct brake ½-20 IF brake line fitting.
Strange master cylinder.
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1-1/6 Bore Master Cylinders Disc/Aftermarket Rear Disc Setup using metric calipers Note: If using a racing bucket seat (ie Kirkey) you can most likely run a 1.0 bore or larger master cylinder. Wilwood master cylinder. Can use your existing GM brake line for the front brakes, but you will need to reflare your rear brake line (9/16-18) with the correct brake 9/16-20 IF brake line fitting. I am unsure the difference between the two master cylinders.
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Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by thatsupnow
(Post 6440779)
I would think with all the effort you've put into your kit it would be a bad decision to try mix and match stuff when you can just buy a complete kit without any guess work. If anyone has questions about what master cylinder they need, they can always call or email. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Hey man I'm finally getting around to installing this kit of yours. i was going thru the instructions and parts and I think that the adapter plate has too small of a hole for the master cylinder. I don't see how this plate will work with a hole that small https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...ce3834e165.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...81ecd5ee05.jpg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures You should have a 3/4 thick spacer that spaces the master cylinder off of that plate in the picture. That hole is the push rod hole.
Originally Posted by thatsupnow
(Post 6462450)
Hey man I'm finally getting around to installing this kit of yours. i was going thru the instructions and parts and I think that the adapter plate has too small of a hole for the master cylinder. I don't see how this plate will work with a hole that small https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...ce3834e165.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...81ecd5ee05.jpg |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by malibudave
(Post 6462456)
You should have a 3/4 thick spacer that spaces the master cylinder off of that plate in the picture. That hole is the push rod hole. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Hey malibudave..... When is a good time to call ya ?? I want to talk with ya about one of these kits for an 87 Camaro..... |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures I have a set of his manual brakes on my car, brakes work good and he's a great guy to work with. Did you get a hold of him?Try shooting him an email at david.schultz@manualbrakes.com. Brian |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures Call or text me @ 832-264-5566 |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures So a bit of info for a old thread I used the Manual Brakes.com kit with a 1in master. I didn't like the pedal effort required. So I installed the Wilwood 340-16920 balance bar assembly. Compatible with his kit surprisingly enough. I used everything except the thick aluminum piece. I used. 3/4in front master 7/8in rear masterFront Brakes: Wilwood 6 piston (13in rotor) piston square area: 4.04in rear brakes: BAER SS4 4 piston. (12in rotor) Piston square area: 2.96in brake pad coefficient: about 0.4 Pedal Travel is about 1.5in. Requires about 80Lbs of pedal force to lock up factory 245 tires. I'll have to see if I can lock up my 315/30R18 200tw race tires. I used 2psi Anti drain back valves front and rear to avoid pad knock back when racing. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...bab3589253.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...b5e30c009c.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...1da83c40e6.jpg Custom PTFE lines made by a local shop. + My new rear brake lines. |
Re: Manual Brake Installation with Pictures
Originally Posted by McLovin1181
(Post 6495514)
So a bit of info for a old thread I used the Manual Brakes.com kit with a 1in master. I didn't like the pedal effort required. So I installed the Wilwood 340-16920 balance bar assembly. Compatible with his kit surprisingly enough. I used everything except the thick aluminum piece. I used. 3/4in front master 7/8in rear masterFront Brakes: Wilwood 6 piston (13in rotor) piston square area: 4.04in rear brakes: BAER SS4 4 piston. (12in rotor) Piston square area: 2.96in brake pad coefficient: about 0.4 Pedal Travel is about 1.5in. Requires about 80Lbs of pedal force to lock up factory 245 tires. I'll have to see if I can lock up my 315/30R18 200tw race tires. I used 2psi Anti drain back valves front and rear to avoid pad knock back when racing. Custom PTFE lines made by a local shop. + My new rear brake lines. |
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