Hot Start problems
 

hey i just picked up my first 3rd gen 84 camaro iroc-z. the previous owner blew the stock 305, and replaced it with a 350 that was pulled from a truck and rebuilt, bored .30 over, put dart heads on it, and hooker racing headers, it runs great, idles well, and has all the power that it should, it starts very easily when cold, but once it gets hot ill stop at a gas station or something and go to start her back up and the starter struggles a bit and then turns over. and she runs fine, if i then turn the engine off and try to start her again she starts right back up no problem. i also noticed that the cooling fan doesnt come on. whoever installed the engine left a birds nest of wires to sort through, but i have receipes for everything that was done to it and its all legit. i was thinking of installing a toggle switch with a fuseable link right to the battery for the cooling fan, but im not sure how well that would work.
i also looked in the radiator and it looks a little sludgy so i think it could use a coolant flush.
Any Suggestions?

The problem has nothing to do with the engines cooling ability. Run a search for "heat soak."

where is your base timming set at? (4-wire connector disconected)

you might want to get a heat shield for your starter. I had alot of problems with my starters cooking after I installed headers

Well, heat soak is only a problem if you run hot! If you run 220 the whole time, I see no reason that you should have heatsoak problems.

What you need to do is figure out if you are running hot or not. From reading this I would think you do.

Here is what you do.

Check to see if the fan is wired wrong, or not wired at all. Look at the fan and follow the two wires that hook up to it. If everything checks good, go to the fan relay. Its on the driver side firewall. There is a green wire with white line, T to it, don't cut the wire, just strip the wire a bit and than T another wire to it. Ground it to your engine, or chasis and see if the fans come on.

If it does not come on I would replace the relay. However, if you still wanna troubleshoot you will have to rig the fan to a power wire. I would not do this if all the wires I told you to trace were doing alright.
It all comes down to either the relay or the fan motor.

I'd say, since you already have a beast motor in, spend some money on a decent fan that moves over 2500cfm. Than you will see whats up.

Secon thing that I am thinking about is the air dam. This is just alittle plastic piece that goes along the bottom of the radiator support. Some people mistake it for just a baffle, or a dirt deflector.. That piece of plastic actually defelcts the air into the radiator at higher speeds (actually it creates an area of low pressure..). This keeps you from overheating on the highway, or over 40mph of driving.
So, if this happens when you are driving over 40 the air dam is something you should look into.

Like I said, heat sink should not be a problem unless you are overheating. So putting a heat shield around the starter will defenetly help, but it wont fix your real problems.

Exhaust is what would "soak" the starter, not the coolant temps.

No, the real problems lie in the fact that they are crappy direct drive starter motors that are too weak to begin with.

Yes, and no. Have you noticed that starters get heatsoaked when the cars overheat!?!? Headers should actually lower the temperatures under the hood.
If you don't believe me, just check the temps on manifolds and than check the headers on a similar set up. Which ones run hotter??? You got it right, the manifolds. So, technically the starter is attached to the engine. So, if the engine is to overheat the starter will get hot! Thats why many people have problems starting their cars after climing up over 220.

Like I said the only way for the header to heat soak the starter is if its lying on, or is really close to the starter (talking milimeters here).

His cooling system is not up to par with his engine. Heat shield will help, but will not solve his cooling problems (I hope you see what am saying). This is a cooling thread. :)

I know a lot of people that run different combos with different types of headers. None of them ever had a problem with their starter soaking. They also ran normal single wire o2's without a problem. When did they ever have problems with a starter??? When they overheated (two friends thought it was the headers but their temp gauge did not work. Fixed the gauge, tada it was overheating..) I've seen this scenario too many times. THan again he needs to give us more info, and troubleshoot it some too.

Funny, I've run my 400 up to 235 and the factory starter locks up but the Tilton seems to be able to overcome the cylinder pressures just fine.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...d-starter.html

Exactly! The starter on these cars, from what I hear, are crappy. I am yet to experience a problem with it. I have headers and a tune that can only run 91 or higher octane.
Anyway, putting a good starter on a car like yours, or this poster's too, would probably be a good thing. Heat soak is really just the engine getting to hot. It heats up everything including the starter. So, once it sits a bit, it comes down to right temp to where it starts again. Its really simple, and I can see where it can be contributed as a header problem. In reallity the headers run cooler than manifolds. Now, if your Air/Fuel tables are lean than thats a different story. "Glow":)

We really need more info of whats going on with the original posters fans, etc.
It hard to tell right now of whats going on!

the exhaust system would glow if its rich i thought:confused: lean exhaust is cold.

Both can make exhaust components glow. A lean engine will really only light up the headers/manifolds. I can light up the pipes when I jet heavy.

Leaner is meaner!:chevy:

well heatsoak was occuring when i shut my car off because i have headers, the second i shut my car off the temperature starts to rise like crazy in the engine compartment. so i wired a switch into my broken cooling fan system and i turn the fan on which blows some of the heat out and it starts right up after about a minute. i also discovered my battery is far too small for my displacement it is a 550CCA fleet farm battery that was purchased 4 years ago. i also have voltage drop problems because i have to push the lock button on my doors about 2-3 times to get them to fully lock. and too all those that are about to tell me im wrong, and its really not that its some other problem instead. shut up and go fist yourself because i really dont care, my car works fine now.

:yup:

So we offer ideas and you go PMS on us...I see how this works...

no, you do a lot of jumping to conclusions, and your so eager to build your egos by sounding smarter that the last guy, thats not really help. anyways a true mechanic never makes assumptions, and knows that one symptom can have a million different causes.
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by the way if leaner really is colder than how do people blow holes through their pistons running too lean?

Not sure why you're even jumping down my throat. Or maybe you were too ignorant to even look at my original post. I only read your post, drew a conclusion and offered my thought. Low and behold I was correct. I guess I'm not a true mechanic. I guess that whole "ASE" thing means nothing.

And lean/rich has nothing to do with combustion temperatures itself. People blow holes in the slugs because of the conditions in the combustion chamber which a severe lean condition can create.

well actually the most often reported "heat soak" problem on my particular engine is head from the headers going directing into the solenoid. as we both know heat is one of the biggest enemies of electronic components. the previous owner in attempt to correct this problem bought an external solenoid and relocated it over by the battery. this helped cure the symptoms but not fully. a mixture of the heat and low battery amperage. having the ability to remove heat from the engine compartment by way of manual fan switch is part of the engines cooling capabilities. the fact that the fan didnt work at all before was a problem with the engines cooling capability. the fact that having a working fan allows starts without hesitation or struggle is the sollution. i suppose i will buy a bigger battery eventually..but now my main focus is to rebuild the rear dif and convert it to posi.

Whoa buddy. Relax.
First of all, when you ask for help on the internet you are really asking for peoples opinions. We are not there to look at it or troubleshoot it. So, in order for us to understand what is going on you have to explain it in detail. Even then its hard to tell because we are not there.
You said it yourself . This statemet makes the rest of your, useless, rant hypocritical.
There are many solutions, and we had some!


What I find idiotic is that you are running a battery that can barely start your car, let alone support all the accessories, and dare to come here and tell us that we don't know ****!?!? Man, I am sorry I tried to help you, cuz you myfriend are beyond the need for help.:banned:

Then get the F* out of here.

:crazy:

What I find idiotic is that you are running a battery that can barely start your car, let alone support all the accessories, and dare to come here and tell us that we don't know ****!?!? Man, I am sorry I tried to help you, cuz you myfriend are beyond the need for help.:banned:[/quote]

hey i just bought this car used, i didnt put that ****ing battery in it, and i plan on replacing it, by the way it starts the car fine, and it hasnt died on me once yet. the reccomended battery for my displacement is 750cca, i have a 550cca, being that its warm this time of year in minnesota it has no trouble starting my car.
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i dont know why people are still commenting on this page anyways, i fixed the problem a week ago and have no had a single reoccurance. why are you still offering advice on a fixed problem? i said it once before, dont try to tell me im wrong on this, even if i am its not happening anymore, and if it does happen again ill deal with it then. until them im perfectly content with my car and its performance.

p.s. dont tell me to get the f out of here, no one made you read my post. maybe you should "get the F out of here"

People were trying to help you. All you did is talk smack to us because we offered advice based on personal experience etc. I am glad you solved your problem, but you have to understand that you did post in the cooling thread, did not give us enough information and came back talking **** to us.

I am not going to flame you anymore, you already know what kind of person you are.

I will never try to help you again.


(Go ahead and say anything you want now).

Why would you even post here if you already know the answer? It seems to me you think you know more than anyone here so why bother posting?

i didnt know the answer in the begining, i didnt even know the cooling fan didnt work. the purpose of my post was to get good information, not to battle ego's. if you guys dont like me, or dont like my posts, dont read them, why dont you all just stop commenting on this page?

i say hot starter.. when it happened to me i hit the starter with a cold water and bam started right up jegs and summit sell heat blankets for that.

electron flow reduces through a hot conductor. Hot wires means less possible flow. Have the same problem with my car. Tried a starter blanket... Didn't work. Actually held heat in. I went with a starter from a lt1 engine which is a gear reduction. It pulls less amp's. Didn't justify in spending a lot more for a name brand gear reduction starter. Good luck with that.