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383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help im at wits end with this 383. it has a 160 thermo, 35* timing, be cool rad, oil cooler and electric fan sucking air towards the motor. i had to pull over for a cool down because it shot up to 280* degrees. here are the stats 850 cfm carb holley dist. msd ignition proline 230 cc runner heads 10:1 pistons 3500 stall ,th400 pbm power cam cam specs: NT EXH running duration: 287 295 duration:0.050 256 264 valve lift: .537 .557 lobe lift: .358 .371 opens: 29 btc 63 bbc closes : 47 abc 21 atc i know its a wild setup but should i lower the timing to 32* ? how about installing another fan blowing air towards the front of the radiator? any suggestions are appreciated... |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I would say that the extremely high duration of that cam is allowing too much cylinder pressure to escape at lower rpms. If anything I would advance the timing more, but probaly put a cam with less duration in. Are you running vacuum advance? |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help May need to work on idle tune and low rpm cruise tune. May be overheating because its too lean. How much timing do you run at idle and low rpm cruise? |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help allright timing was brought down to 32* and the front air dam was installed. STILL RUNNING HOT! fml gonna try to install a large electric twin fan and see if that mother effin helps. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I know its a dumb question but is the air dam under the car?..nevermind I just read your last post again,..lol |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help what are you running for a water pump. at least a high volume or a electric one i hope. what cfm is your fan putting out.i would run at least a 2600 crm fan for what you have. i just went threw the same problem and i changed everything you can think of so i know what you mean about nerves being shot.it finally ended up being my fan wasn't putting out enough cfm. does your car temp go down some when driving on the highway but in town starts to go back up? if so it's your fan. hope it helps. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by frank36087ta
(Post 4578336)
what are you running for a water pump. at least a high volume or a electric one i hope. what cfm is your fan putting out.i would run at least a 2600 crm fan for what you have. i just went threw the same problem and i changed everything you can think of so i know what you mean about nerves being shot.it finally ended up being my fan wasn't putting out enough cfm. does your car temp go down some when driving on the highway but in town starts to go back up? if so it's your fan. hope it helps. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help mutha effer &#%* , an electric twin fan hooked up, 10* timing idle and set at 30* still running &$#% hot! mec says coolant is flowing to fast thru the rad an motor, hes gonna hook up a standard water pump an restricter plate in place of thermo to see what happens. fuuuuuuuu!!! |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help Keep us posted. I'm fighting the same thing. My cam isn't quite that radical but my compression ratio is a little higher. Griffin dual core rad, northern fan and shroud combo, 180 t-stat, still runs 230 plus on 100 degree days. Can't use AC at all. What mechanical water pump would be good? |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by white gold 88
(Post 4599174)
Keep us posted. I'm fighting the same thing. My cam isn't quite that radical but my compression ratio is a little higher. Griffin dual core rad, northern fan and shroud combo, 180 t-stat, still runs 230 plus on 100 degree days. Can't use AC at all. What mechanical water pump would be good? |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I have a 383 puming out 480 hp and what I use to cool it is a champion 3 core aluminum rad, a stewart stage 2 water pump, 160 t stat, and both of the stock fans are tied to each other and will run the whole time. My car never gets above 190 even in 90+ weather. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help running the stock rad.. with a 11.1 383. the stock 2 fans come on auto 190, and turn off when under 170 ish car runs about 190 some times 195 when its hot out. this was all set up by lingenfelter, going with the 427 just added the 3 core rad. and thats about it. No A/C 4.11 Gears sunny day driving car only have made a few road trips in the past ran like a top on the freeways 180/185 all the way 150 mile road trip |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I'm thinking I may have too thick of rad. Even with two fans behind and one in front just not enough air flow inside engine bay. Pull off hood and will stay cool. I probably need larger exhaust also. My Griffin rad is two core but it's one inch wide tubes, maybe 1 1/4. Will hold nearly 5 gallons when drained. Thanks for the ideas. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help starting to think my problems are similar to yours. Too thick of a rad with not enough fan. I have a thick griffen as well, but stock fans. Try more powerful fans with a shroud or add a smaller pusher in front to see what happens. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I have a pretty crazy 383, I have a 31 x 19 universal rad. with a stock dual fan set up. I have a jegs high flow rad, with 180* themo. I actally ran a 160* themo and it ran hotter then the one with a 180*. The coolent in the rad. doesnt stay in there fast enough to cool down. I would give that a shot. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help the stock fans should move alot of AIR. when My car is sitting in a parking lot. and i leav the ign in the accy/ON but the eng OFF. the Fans run untill the eng is about 166 DEG then Turn OFF. standing about 20 yards in back of the Car you can feel the AIR on your Legs like a Hair dryer on Low... thats Moving some AIR! |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help They can move some air but if they arent up close against the rad, they will not get the suction needed to pull air thru the rad. It will just feed in air from the engine bay and throw hot air backwards. These fans would be better with a shroud |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help What ever GM made/installed, are all the Fans I have:) they have about a 1/2 inch Gap from the Rad.. thats a Factry Gap. (they dont Rub or touch the Rad) when i took a look i was shocked. i fig they would be right up snug... |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by white gold 88
(Post 4599174)
Keep us posted. I'm fighting the same thing. My cam isn't quite that radical but my compression ratio is a little higher. Griffin dual core rad, northern fan and shroud combo, 180 t-stat, still runs 230 plus on 100 degree days. Can't use AC at all. What mechanical water pump would be good? IT WAS THE RADIATOR!!!!! the old fan wasnt extracingt enough heat from the rad and air/ pressure ruined it thats why it was running hot for so long. new rad put it and the cawk sucka runs 189-195 consistantly after 45 min of driving. omfg its the little things thats gets em all the time! just effing happy i can drive it from point a to point b without overheatin..:chevy: |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help Great news. Glad to hear your problem is fixed. Mine was the timing. 10 to 12 at idle and it stays cool even with the AC on. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I'm running my 383 with the stock radiator, stock single fan, and 180 thermostat. It has been 95+ around here and I never run hot. not even any problems with the AC on and in traffic..... I guess I'm lucky |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by Blue383
(Post 4608950)
IT WAS THE RADIATOR!!!!! the old fan wasnt extracingt enough heat from the rad and air/ pressure ruined it thats why it was running hot for so long. new rad put it and the cawk sucka runs 189-195 consistantly after 45 min of driving. omfg its the little things thats gets em all the time! just effing happy i can drive it from point a to point b without overheatin..:chevy: |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I'd like to chime in a little that from my experience, if you are building a lot of heat via radical combustion/timing improvements, there are 3 critical areas to focus on. Before I list what I feel are the key points, you must realize in a stock, unmodified V8 an engine via normal combustion builds approx. 20-25 degrees worth of heat. This means to maintain a stable engine temperature your radiator/fan combo must be rated to at least shed 25 degrees off the coolant temps between the time the thermostat begins to open to the time it re-enters through the water pump. Now, once you begin making more power, you begin creating more combustion heat-you therefore MUST make changes to your cooling system. Here's my list and realize its not a 1-2-3 order to try...rather, do it all at once to see results. 1.) Larger volume radiator. Why? Because coolant transfers heat OUT of the engine so the more coolant volume you have, the more heat you can relieve the engine of. 2.) Larger CFM rated fan(s). Why? Because if you allow yourself the ability to move more heat out of the engine via more coolant volume, then you must pull the heat out of the coolant proportionately. Your fan choice really should depend on radiator size and overall coolant volume capability, which results from engine demands. 3.) Charging system upgrade/proper fan control. Why? Well some may not see the need for it BUT-if you need to run a stout fan, you will need to upgrade your charging system to keep up. And, depending on your desired fan, the stock system at best is inadequate to run any HO fan. 4.) Things to consider. A. High flow water pumps and restrictors-dont use em. Why? Because if our goal is to pull heat out of the coolant with a stout fan, why would we want to speed up the rate at which the coolant flows by installing a high flow water pump? Keep the coolant flow moving a bit slower and you can pull more heat out. Restrictors are not usually a good idea because again, we want the heat OUT of the motor! B.) Use proper wiring and loom. I suggest using the properly rated wiring for under hood use-it gets extremely hot and heat builds resistance in wiring-thats the last thing you want with your cooling fan system so use j1128 spec'd wiring-not the Chinese parts store automotive wiring. Its spooled with at least 10% tin alloy which makes it cheap to manufacture but also weakens the wire and allows it to build too much heat making them even more brittle. J1128 wire is heat resistant up to 257F and you can find loom that is flame resistant and can withstand even higher temps. Most can be identified by the blue or orange striping on its spine. You can find this stuff online with a little research if you are electrically inclined. There's a lot more on the subject of cooling efficiency but hopefully this gives some of you a little help on properly upgrading your cooling system. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by formula1LE
(Post 5808893)
I'd like to chime in a little that from my experience, if you are building a lot of heat via radical combustion/timing improvements, there are 3 critical areas to focus on. Before I list what I feel are the key points, you must realize in a stock, unmodified V8 an engine via normal combustion builds approx. 20-25 degrees worth of heat. This means to maintain a stable engine temperature your radiator/fan combo must be rated to at least shed 25 degrees off the coolant temps between the time the thermostat begins to open to the time it re-enters through the water pump. Now, once you begin making more power, you begin creating more combustion heat-you therefore MUST make changes to your cooling system. Here's my list and realize its not a 1-2-3 order to try...rather, do it all at once to see results. 1.) Larger volume radiator. Why? Because coolant transfers heat OUT of the engine so the more coolant volume you have, the more heat you can relieve the engine of. 2.) Larger CFM rated fan(s). Why? Because if you allow yourself the ability to move more heat out of the engine via more coolant volume, then you must pull the heat out of the coolant proportionately. Your fan choice really should depend on radiator size and overall coolant volume capability, which results from engine demands. 3.) Charging system upgrade/proper fan control. Why? Well some may not see the need for it BUT-if you need to run a stout fan, you will need to upgrade your charging system to keep up. And, depending on your desired fan, the stock system at best is inadequate to run any HO fan. 4.) Things to consider. A. High flow water pumps and restrictors-dont use em. Why? Because if our goal is to pull heat out of the coolant with a stout fan, why would we want to speed up the rate at which the coolant flows by installing a high flow water pump? Keep the coolant flow moving a bit slower and you can pull more heat out. Restrictors are not usually a good idea because again, we want the heat OUT of the motor! B.) Use proper wiring and loom. I suggest using the properly rated wiring for under hood use-it gets extremely hot and heat builds resistance in wiring-thats the last thing you want with your cooling fan system so use j1128 spec'd wiring-not the Chinese parts store automotive wiring. Its spooled with at least 10% tin alloy which makes it cheap to manufacture but also weakens the wire and allows it to build too much heat making them even more brittle. J1128 wire is heat resistant up to 257F and you can find loom that is flame resistant and can withstand even higher temps. Most can be identified by the blue or orange striping on its spine. You can find this stuff online with a little research if you are electrically inclined. There's a lot more on the subject of cooling efficiency but hopefully this gives some of you a little help on properly upgrading your cooling system. formula1LE thanks for your reply. To your points listed below. Ill start by saying obviously my set up is far from stock and I'm probably in the 700hp range with the weight of my car and and times that I have run at the track. On the radiator, its a BeCool, dual core (1" core) direct fit, I'm going to send it back to BeCool and see if they can make it a dual pass set up rather than a single pass (and also have it fix because just started puking out coolant from the bottom the other day). I use water with a BeCool additive that isn't even on the market yet. Electric Fans...dual flex-o-lite fans (2500 "rated" CFM) with a shroud. These are wire to manual switch that run all the time. Thought about possible getting a pusher fan, but have read that pusher fans can actually do a dis-service to the puller fans. Charging system...replaced stock alternator with direct replacement from autozone last summer (rated at 105 amps). Water pump...eldbrock victor aluminum pump. Changed the crank pulley from the stock 7 5/8 to 5 3/4 to help slow down the water pump being that on the highway at 55 the motor is turing 2700-2800 rpms with th400 with 3.73 gear. Added coolant lines from back side of heads to the water neck to help get rid of any hot pockets in the head. Tried using restrictors, but ended up going back to the 180 thermostat. Coolant temp starts to climb once the oil temp gets up to 250. On a 75 degree day the manifold temp is 210 and the coolant temp in the cylinder heads is 235 to 240. I've tried advancing the timing to 40 as a test to see if that would help...didnt see any noticeable results so put the timing back to 32 total. Took the A/C out of the car along with the condenser. I have a trany cooler in front of half of the radiator. Also have a intercooler the lays horizontal down by the air dam as well. I'm sure there is something I'm missing, but that should cover the main points. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help Okay....IMO I see a few things I'd consider changing. First, I don't think you have enough coolant volume in the radiator-a dual pass may help keep what coolant you do have in there a bit longer by allowing more time for heat transfer. And, I don't think the Flexalite dual fan is enough to keep that 383 cool. 2500 CFM to me is about as good as a HD clutch/mech. fan. Your charging system could use an upgrade to 140A once you go for a stout fan IMO. But for now, I don't see it as a concern but admittedly I think you don't have a powerful enough fan so an upgrade for your charging system may change in the future. Your water bypass is a good addition though as is the distilled water/additive. Your choice of a Victor Series water pump is a high flow unit so again, we want to slow down the speed of the coolant going through the radiator-this mod IMO negates the benefit of a larger crank pulley to slow down the wp speed. So I guess the problems I see is too little coolant volume, coolant moving too quickly through the radiator (high pressure probably caused your leakage too) and too little of an electric fan. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by formula1LE
(Post 5809104)
Okay....IMO I see a few things I'd consider changing. First, I don't think you have enough coolant volume in the radiator-a dual pass may help keep what coolant you do have in there a bit longer by allowing more time for heat transfer. And, I don't think the Flexalite dual fan is enough to keep that 383 cool. 2500 CFM to me is about as good as a HD clutch/mech. fan. Your charging system could use an upgrade to 140A once you go for a stout fan IMO. But for now, I don't see it as a concern but admittedly I think you don't have a powerful enough fan so an upgrade for your charging system may change in the future. Your water bypass is a good addition though as is the distilled water/additive. Your choice of a Victor Series water pump is a high flow unit so again, we want to slow down the speed of the coolant going through the radiator-this mod IMO negates the benefit of a larger crank pulley to slow down the wp speed. So I guess the problems I see is too little coolant volume, coolant moving too quickly through the radiator (high pressure probably caused your leakage too) and too little of an electric fan. I just put the smaller crank pulley on last week (not bigger as you posted) to help slow down the water pump...I've had the victor water pump for a couple of years. Any recommendations on electric fans? Obviously I need to get the radaitor fixed first, then have BeCool convert it to a dual past set up. If that doesn't do the trick I would consider getting different electric fans if needed. I've also had thoughts on a oil cooler, but the engine builder think 250 is fine and other think it is a little warm. I dont know if a oil cooler would help drop the coolant temp as well. Just a idea. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help Oops. Yeah I was thinking "smaller crank pulley" but typed larger....lol. What kind of oil are you running? Any conventional oil regardless of weight begins to break down @ 240F (ie oxidizes, loses viscosity) whereas a quality synthetic (not born of a group III hydrocracked carbon base stock) like Mobil 1 doesn't begin to break down until it reaches approx. 600F so oil type is important no matter what power level you're at. Running a dual pass radiator will hold coolant longer BUT we still have an issue with low volume of it-so the only option other than a physically larger one is to upgrade the fans. Duals are pretty much all you can run without pulley interference. A newer style Motorcraft 18" shrouded fan setup would normally be the hot ticket (hee hee) here if space wasn't an issue. I'd go for some LT1 or LS1 fans instead of the flexalite ones. Also, are you running any type of cowl to let hot air escape? |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by formula1LE
(Post 5809164)
Oops. Yeah I was thinking "smaller crank pulley" but typed larger....lol. What kind of oil are you running? Any conventional oil regardless of weight begins to break down @ 240F (ie oxidizes, loses viscosity) whereas a quality synthetic (not born of a group III hydrocracked carbon base stock) like Mobil 1 doesn't begin to break down until it reaches approx. 600F so oil type is important no matter what power level you're at. Running a dual pass radiator will hold coolant longer BUT we still have an issue with low volume of it-so the only option other than a physically larger one is to upgrade the fans. Duals are pretty much all you can run without pulley interference. A newer style Motorcraft 18" shrouded fan setup would normally be the hot ticket (hee hee) here if space wasn't an issue. I'd go for some LT1 or LS1 fans instead of the flexalite ones. Also, are you running any type of cowl to let hot air escape? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think the LT1 or LS1 fans are shrouded are they? Also wonder what kind of CFM they pull? I do have a 4 1/2 cowl hood on the car. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help Joe Gibbs Racing oil is a group IV base oil so it starts out at least in base form similar to Mobil 1 and Amsoil but with different additives and polymers-so, yes its a good oil. And yes the LS1/LT1 dual fans are shrouded....and rated @ approx. 3500-3800 CFM total. I can PM ya some info I have on the LT1's installed on a 3rd gen at least. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by formula1LE
(Post 5809183)
Joe Gibbs Racing oil is a group IV base oil so it starts out at least in base form similar to Mobil 1 and Amsoil but with different additives and polymers-so, yes its a good oil. And yes the LS1/LT1 dual fans are shrouded....and rated @ approx. 3500-3800 CFM total. I can PM ya some info I have on the LT1's installed on a 3rd gen at least. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I just went through this and my problem was the center air dam, or lack of. What helps is water wetter, good working fans, and that air dam. It probably wouldn't hurt to shim the dam a little lower. Typically, lower timing and a rich mixture help too, but not always. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help
Originally Posted by formula1LE
(Post 5809183)
Joe Gibbs Racing oil is a group IV base oil so it starts out at least in base form similar to Mobil 1 and Amsoil but with different additives and polymers-so, yes its a good oil. And yes the LS1/LT1 dual fans are shrouded....and rated @ approx. 3500-3800 CFM total. I can PM ya some info I have on the LT1's installed on a 3rd gen at least. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I have a couple RamCharger style Chrysler dual fan assemblies at the moment-no LT1 or LS1 fans. These are dual speed dual fans and are right at 3800-4000 CFM on high speed. All presided and ready to go $179 plus the ride. PM if interested. |
Re: 383 running too hot and so do my nerves.Need help I meant prewired lol |
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