Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Hey everyone! Has anyone used the Megasquirt 2 system on their car? I’m considering getting one for my Trans Am which is stock for the moment but I plan on doing a lot of work on it over the course of 2018. If this isn’t a good system which one would you recommend to a newbie? Thanks!

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

It's a good system, MS3 allows for more expandibility in the future though.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

So the MS3 will work with a pretty much stock car?

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Yep, it can be setup up almost exactly like an MS2, as far as connections go, if you want, but adds in USB connectivity, SD card logging, and a lot of future expand-ability.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

The megasquirt wont control any emissions functions. Also converter lockup can be an issue. Hard to do with MS2 if you wish it to be ECU controlled. Easier to have converter lockup with the MS3 as it has a native vss input.....But will still need some supporting hardware to emulate stock lockup.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

And this is probably a really stupid question but is there a difference between the MS3 and the MS3 pro systems? (I seriously have zero experience with EFI systems before buying this car. All I’ve ever owned before that I have tuned has had a carb on it.)

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Yes, there is a difference between MS3 (DIY version) and MS3 PRO.

Overall capabilities and features remains very much the same, since the firmware they use is nearly identical, the biggest difference is the packaging. The DIY version is in an aluminum case and uses DB37 connectors for it's I/O. It also has the option of being an MS3 base, or an MS3X, the X is when an additional board is added that adds in more I/O over the MS3 base, which adds multiple I/O for ignition and injections outputs, cam inputs, more digital and analog I/O, etc.
The MS3 Pro uses a plastic case and Ampseal connectors, which is more robust than the db37 connectors of the DIY version. The warranty is better with the Pro versions, and is better for vehicles that will live in damp or dusty environments.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I have a MS2 and I love it. Its definitely something you can expect to sink some time in though, so if your looking for a plug and play system I would look elsewhere to be honest. I almost wish i went MS3, after all the money I sunk into it with the two step, AC input and HEI control im past the cost of a MS3. Ive had some issues with the stock ICM so i would suggest going MS3 with a crank trigger and LS coils. I am very happy with it as it sits, MS3 could have just been that much better.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

This makes Haltech's direct plug-in Platinum Sport GM ECU sound even more attractive to me.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I've been doing more and more with the AEM Infinity 508. Excellent system, does a lot of stuff and does it really fast.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

It is doable to run emissions from the MS3. I had EGR and the canister evap running. I never did the two relays for the smog pump since PO had already disabled it. Would recommend EGR since you can get improved MPG at cruise. If there is interest I will post instructions.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I'd like to know how you did the EGR control. I'm assuming you're controlling a vacuum solenoid to control a vacuum EGR, and not directly manipulating an electronic EGR?

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I connected the VVT wire (from the MS3) to the wire for the EGR. Then used Generic PWM A to control it. I think I used a maximum 50% duty cycle from 1500-2500rpm and light load under 60kpa. With my friend driving I leaned out the mixture until it felt "unhappy" and then added enough fuel to make it good again. Next time it was on the dyno it wanted 5-6 degrees more advance when under EGR. Made a significant increase in fuel economy. I don't understand the physics of why it works, but it did...

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I'm late to the party. I've used all the MS units and have been (for their intended use) very happy with all of them. I currently have MS3 extra and am very happy with it. It's only downfalls that I have agreed with are the lack of being able to directly handle a Vehicle speed sensor (easy add on though that can be put inside the case) and transmission control. Emissions controls are a grey area as it takes a bit of knowledge, I never tried it for emissions. I think MS3 extra or MS3 pro are two ecms that you could buy and would control any fuel injection method. Pro shines brighter with more features but you pay for it. When I make the switch to LS based engines I plan on buying a new wiring harness and using my MS3 extra to control it. Did I mention I can log, tune and monitor the ecm via blutooth on my phone or tablet or laptop? ;)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6e717b138d.jpg

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I'm trying to justify in my head switching to MS3 extra (or pro) and using my Ms2 as a transmission controller lol.

There is enough outputs that you can basically simulate the same logic (sans VSS input) in MS2 to handle emissions, but who would at this point? Like as an educational experiment it's possible, but I think most of us are building hot rods (exempt) or track cars (exempt).

I like MS. I may eventually go to MS3, but honestly, I hope they develop an MS4 soon. It's been 8 years since MS3 came out. We need a new ECM with more memory, and integrated E-trans code.

I think there is a handful of us now running MS on our cars, but it seems most lurk in the shadows. Most of my EFI discussions are happening on Facebook these days.


-- Joe

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I believe MS3 pro will handle transmission outputs, I'm nearly certain it can handle vss. MS3 extra can do it if you buy the add on that the jeep guy makes. It is about the size of a quarter and can mount inside the case of the MS. I might send mine in and have that done by Kramer or Hoffman's outfit so I don't screw it up but I go back and fourth on that or the Dakota digital box. You can add on memory for logging in MS3 with an SD card, that's what I use. If the price of that pro could come down to a grand, I would pull the trigger, credit card wise.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

The MS3PRo still using a microsquirt for the transmission controller, so it's two separate processors connected with CAN. I can read a VSS directly though, and have tuning based conditions on VSS and or wheel speed.

The memory I was referring to was actual RAM and flash space. Megasquirt is hitting the same road block that the factory junk hit, we are running out of address space for future functionality. If you want to add some major functionality, you have to comment out a section of code you don't want to use because memory allocation is near maxed out.

MS2 has 128k of flash to fit the OS and config, and only 4K of user ram. (that's a defect IMO).

MS3 is a little better, with a megabyte of flash storage for the OS and 64k of user ram.

But realistically, flash is cheap, memory is cheap. We could be coding up some pretty impressive functionality if we had less physical constraints.

Bu it's great system overall. It just needs another major revision soon to keep up.

The Speeduino stuff is getting interesting too. Eventually we may see it functionally be on par with MS.

-- Joe

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

http://forum.diyefi.org/viewtopic.ph...2d641e71cd9af7

https://controls.is/lpc4.html

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

That thread is so ridiculous, it reeks of pretentiousness. If the MegaSquirt platform weren't widely popular it would have died at MegaSquirt I and there wouldn't be an entire website with thousands of members.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Lots of ecu's out there....not just ms.
And I'm not anti MS at all, pricing on the 3pro or gold box makes me look at others for a current project:

Elite 550
Pro48
But I think I'm going this route.
https://controls.is/shop/ecu/lpc4

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Well over a hundred thousand megasquirts in production.

It has its ups and downs, but it's what I use .

The biggest problem people have with the megasquirt is understanding it. They have a problem and assume it sucks, when it's them that suck lol

I'm quite happy with the way my thirdgen runs now.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I like the ms doe two reasons: if I can't figure something out, their is thousands of people on the forums or Facebook who probably have done it. Then even if there isn't , I can look at the source code (written in c) to see how it works.

It's not perfect, but it's very flexible. But it's also not for everyone.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Agree. i have used many standalone setups and programmed factory ecus. MS is great except for the EPIC learning curve.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

There's a lot of stupid little things, for example - if you want your ignition output to go to ground tie a pin to ground elsewhere on the board. If you want it to provide a 5 volt signal, you have to tie a pin to vref.

Stuff like "going high" vs "going low" on reading a VR signal people don't understand, and when their stuff doesn't run they get all frustrated and call it junk.

It's extremely powerful if the user reads, learns, and understands. But for the average guy who just want to bolt stuff on and hit the gas, it's probably not the right solution.

But yes, EPIC is a good way to describe the learning curve. But I think it makes ya smarter in the end.

-- Joe

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

It makes me chuckle how many people get rid of EGR for the sake of doing it. If properly tuned it should have minimal to no impact on performance. There's a lot of gains for those who look for them.

What you're actually doing is removing air from the intake mixture. Because the engine's an air pump, you're effectively reducing either its displacement or VE. This means you open the throttle up further to produce X power, which reduces cruise pumping losses. These gasses also reduce the burn rate of the air/fuel mixture, which in turn means you want more ignition lead. There could also be theoretical implications to static compression in a well designed engine because you can effectively reduce the DCR in the low to middle range.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

This used to be true, but the 4L60E and 4L80E are dead-simple to operate and can be controlled via Mega Shift (MegaSquirt I/O functions).
http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/4L60e.html

I did a ton of research on the 4Lxx transmissions 1) because my buddy's trans went out in his Avy after rebuild so I wanted to learn more about them to troubleshoot the issue and 2) I intend to utilize my factory 2007 GTP ECU to control my 3800 S/C with a 4L60E in place of the 4T65 the car originally came with. There are really only a few functions to manage, if you can tune fuel injection, you can program the trans controller.

If you REALLY wanted an e-trans and HATED programming, you could practically run the whole thing manually with toggle switches. IIRC, there are fewer than 10 connections that truly have to be made.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Megashift sucks, BTDT got the T-shirt. Squirt is servicable but the documentation if followed will not lead you to a workable system. Hardware mods have to be made as well. Trust me use a stock box or buy an aftermarket controller if you want Megasquirt.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I know lots of people that use it, and don't have problems.

What issues did you have?

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

Megashift is problematic, but there's trans control firmware for the MS2/Microsquirt that is claimed to work well. I'll be testing that theory on my Jimmy hopefully later this year, if not early next year.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

For a 4L80E the documentation was garbage for the 4L80E. There are subtle differences compared to say a 60E's docs that mean you'd end up with a non working product.

This says nothing about the input for the VSS never worked great, so I had to create a workaround via a monolithic IC rather than their noise susceptible input. I confirmed this issue with someone else as well. I had made a post querying about this on the MSGPIO forum and was summarily banned. I don't know why, but I suspect it was because of the story that the VSS input "worked fine" which was likely little more than that. Kind of ruined me on the whole MS experience in a lot of ways, and certainly makes me leery of their "community" support.

Lastly, the CAN stuff had some things you had to enable in config files that weren't well documented. If I remember right I had someone from The Turbo Forums help me out with that. Getting CAN going and integrated with the MS2 was definitely an uphill battle. This could have changed considerably as well.

Lastly, the base gear map was just absurd. Obviously this is a "tuning" parameter and a nitpick but it's worth noting that even say 30-40 minutes work to add a map would have simplified the final work greatly. Here's the default map, you can tell that it doesn't really pass the sanity check at lower load.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...f133713610.jpg


Just to be 100% clear, I'm talking the MSGPIO based system, NOT a Microsquirt used as a 4L80E controller. I have zero experience with that and it may work great for all I know. I have heard much better things about it than this box, which I would consider a half baked product at the time I was working with it (which was quite some time ago.)

That said, I bit the bullet on HPT which means if I need a standalone 4L80E controller it's going to be a flashed stock box here on out.

Re: Mega Squirt worth it?
 

I was actually thinking about the Microsquirt controller. My bad.

I don't use any of the B&G code, it always sucks.

-- Joe