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No Gauge Lights in the Camaro I haven't had gauge lights in my '88 Camaro in over a year now. Every time I turn on my lights, the "Inst Lps" 5A fuse blows. Sometimes after ~30 seconds, sometimes instantly. Usually instantly. In an attempt to finally fix the problem, I'm removing everything in the circuit, one item at a time, then testing with a new fuse to see if the problem has been fixed. Thus far I have removed:
Alas, I still have the problem. I've referenced the schematic out of the Haynes manual and followed every wire as far as I can see and haven't found any cuts, skinned insulation or anything of the sort. I'm out of ideas and reaching out for help. Is there anything I'm missing? |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro
Originally Posted by element114401
(Post 6018397)
I haven't had gauge lights in my '88 Camaro in over a year now. Every time I turn on my lights, the "Inst Lps" 5A fuse blows. Sometimes after ~30 seconds, sometimes instantly. Usually instantly. In an attempt to finally fix the problem, I'm removing everything in the circuit, one item at a time, then testing with a new fuse to see if the problem has been fixed. Thus far I have removed:
Alas, I still have the problem. I've referenced the schematic out of the Haynes manual and followed every wire as far as I can see and haven't found any cuts, skinned insulation or anything of the sort. I'm out of ideas and reaching out for help. Is there anything I'm missing? I think it's sometimes called the "remote dimmer module" if you do a search for it ...... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro
Originally Posted by OrangeBird
(Post 6018411)
You mention the dimmer switch , but not the dimmer transistor that's mounted near the "convenience center" . The transistor being shorted is a very likely possibility . I think it's sometimes called the "remote dimmer module" if you do a search for it ...... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro There was another member (JoseSweatshirt) on here having the sort of the same issue with his bird. So Once again I have referred to my trusty 1987 Camaro Electrical Diagnosis book and here is what I have found... 1. If no interior lights work check the "TAIL" fuse and check the "Inst" Fuse. 2. If a group of interior lights do not come on check the wires at the suspect lights. 3. If a single light does not come on check the bulb, socket, and corresponding wires. 4. If the Dimmer Switch will not vary the brilliance of interior lights, replace the light switch. 5. If interior light will not shut off, replace light switch. Circuit Operation: Voltage is applied at all times through the TAIL fuse to the light switch. With the light switch in the park or head position, voltage is applied through the INST fuse to the individual lights. A rheostat inside the instrument cluster dimmer switch controls the brightness of the lights. When the dimmer switch is turned, the resistance of the rheostat either increases or decreases, thus increasing or decreasing the brightness of the interior lights. How to check: connect test lamp at light switch connector. Ignition switch: Park and Dimmer switch: HI Connect between Dark green wire and ground. Correct result should be test light turns on. If the above results are correct, check DK green wire, INST fuse, and Gray wire for opens. Replace Light switch. I had an issue with my '88 GTA and it ended up being the switch assembly. Good luck and I hope this helps. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro
Originally Posted by element114401
(Post 6018414)
I was under the impression that the remote dimmer module is only on the Trans Ams. Is that incorrect? |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Camaro didn't have that. More likely you have a farkled light bulb. Try popping the instr cluster out, removing all the light bulbs, plugging it back in, and see if it holds. If so, .... ,, ... ,,,,,,,,, ... you just found the problem. A box of 194s is like $6 at a REAL parts store. Don't pay $3 for a card of 2, just buy acoupla boxes and change em ALL out. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 6018468)
Camaro didn't have that. More likely you have a farkled light bulb. Try popping the instr cluster out, removing all the light bulbs, plugging it back in, and see if it holds. If so, .... ,, ... ,,,,,,,,, ... you just found the problem. A box of 194s is like $6 at a REAL parts store. Don't pay $3 for a card of 2, just buy acoupla boxes and change em ALL out. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro I would use a meter(at the fuse location) on beeper mode (battery disconnected) when removing components (while the light switch is in position of occurrence). Remember if you are constantly blowing fuses, you have an active hard short. Just because you can run an active short for a longer period of time either means; that you are more slowly and throughly cooking the circuit, or the short does not make contact until a certain event (like movement). If the meter stops beeping when a component is removed then check that component and the wiring that follows it. If it still beeps after all components are removed, start moving wiring around to see if it stops. If it stops then you most likely found a pinched wire. A schematic is a good idea so that you don't overlook a circuit that branches out from the one you're trying to test. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro My first "blind' suggestion is that an aftermarket accessory ( Radio ? ) was wired incorrectly - simply because it happens so often. Here's look at the shop manual schematic: http://berlinetta.info/media/shopman...ST88Camaro.jpg The Camaro headlight switch has the DIM rheostat built into it but the Firebird doesn't and uses a "remote" dimmer instead. If you pull the INST fuse and probe the terminals when the lights are turned to PARK or HEADLIGHTS, then 1 side of the INST fuse terminals should be hot. ( voltage varies based on rheostat adjustment. ) Obviously; it is because the fuse keeps blowing. If there are no other electrical problems when the INST fuse is pulled and the headlights are on - and the INST fuse "in' terminal (green wire) has voltage - then the headlight switch is not the problem. This leaves the Gray "out" wire to be suspect. If you un-plug EVERY one of the accessories that use the grey wire and the fuse is still blowing out when the headlight switch is turned to PARK or HEAD,... then none of those items are causing the short & the wiring itself is the problem. Somewhere inside the harness they grey wire got chaffed and is shorting to ground. IIRC the Rear Defroster switch's' grey wire gets plugged into the back of the fuse block, all other accessories on that circuit are running off the same grey wire that leads "out" of the INST fuse terminal. There's a couple of the things connected to that grey "back-lighting" wire were not part of your checklist. I suggest going back and unplugging ALL of the things shown on the diagram,... installing a good INST fuse, and turning on the headlights again to see if the fuse blows out. If it does I'd think the parts are OK and the grey wire was bad. You'd either need to investigate the grey wire thru the harness to find & repair the short,... or run a new wire from the 'out" terminal of the fuse-box and re-connect all the accessories that new wire. :driving: |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro 2 Attachment(s) Solved! Over the weekend I finally found the problem that has been plaguing me for over a year now. Turns out the previous owner had buggered up (what I assume to be) the "ashtray light". I had never had a light under the center vents, over the HVAC unit and radio so I never thought to look there. After the HVAC unit was pulled out I saw a grey wire way in the back leading upwards so I pulled it down and sure enough it wasn't hooked to anything. Looks like the previous owner had a butt connector on it and a bare spade/bullet connector of some sort. Must have fallen and grounded itself back there. Taped it and tucked it back up and everything works perfectly now. I took a picture for shits and giggles. Thanks everyone for your help, it was greatly appreciated. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Awesome !! :goodjob: Can't believe I forgot about that damn thing. :doh: It's gotta' feel pretty good to see everything light up again ! :driving: |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Aghast! ...the infamous butt connector. Congrats on finding it! :thumbsup: |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Question... Did your car originally come with the little light under the dash to light up the HVAC controls? Or was it just part of the harness GM included whether it had the light or not? Reason Im asking is because my 83 does not have the light. I experienced the EXACT same problem you had and went about tracing the wires the same way by disconnecting the accessories etc. I finaly just said "two tears in a bucket ______" and installed LED's in the cluster. LED's are nice and bright and work great wired into the headlight switch as there was an unused port on the switch that a spade connector fit right on. But now Im wondering if I didnt over look that grey wire you found going up to where a console light might have been if the car came with it originally. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro
Originally Posted by DonW
(Post 6020794)
Question... Did your car originally come with the little light under the dash to light up the HVAC controls? Or was it just part of the harness GM included whether it had the light or not? Reason Im asking is because my 83 does not have the light. I experienced the EXACT same problem you had and went about tracing the wires the same way by disconnecting the accessories etc. I finaly just said "two tears in a bucket ______" and installed LED's in the cluster. LED's are nice and bright and work great wired into the headlight switch as there was an unused port on the switch that a spade connector fit right on. But now Im wondering if I didnt over look that grey wire you found going up to where a console light might have been if the car came with it originally. It's simple enough to check. Just remove the trim around the radio and HVAC, the trim around the shifter (might not be necessary, my two pieces somewhat interlock and its just easier to remove both pieces) and three (IIRC) bolts hold the HVAC unit in place. When I pulled mine out I could see the grey wire running from the left then up. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Are we 100% sure that the Camaro didn't come with the remote Dimmer? I thought the Camaro did come with the remote dimmer the Electrical schematic that I'm looking at has it listed and my wiring lines up with the color coding. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro What you have appears to be a "generic" diagram covering any possible wiring one may encounter in a third gen . I see your diagram has the remote dimmer , but it also has the headlight door module and headlight door motors , a feature exclusive to the Firebird . If your curious , next time you have reason to go into your dashboard look in the area just above your right knee and see if you see a big transistor mounted to a hunk of metal . I've never owned a third gen Camaro so I can't say for sure , but the guys in the thread who do own Camaros rather than Firebirds say their cars don't have it , so till it's proven different I'm gonna have to take them at their word . |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro my gauges lights donot work , the gear position letters donot light up either. I checked all the fuses under the steering column, I cant find this grey wire referred to in this thread or the inst pnl fuse. I have a 85 iroc z28 |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro i have all the manuals and diagrams but its a rats nest under the dash and I cant make out what is what, frustrating... only thing I can make out Is the firewall bulk connector, fuse panel and light switch. I cant find the convenience center, transistor, grey wire etc for troubleshooting... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...8e0c65d836.jpg There's your convenience center. Squeeze the tabs the pink arrows are pointed at, and the dealy will swing down for access. Not sure why though, it's not really related to the dimming light circuit. That mess of bare wires where the radio is missing are more than likely responsible, with special mention to the scotch-lok wiretaps under the dash. Above average chances someone has hacked in to hook up a cb, backlight for aftermarket gauges, a radio, neon discoball dancehall lights, etc. Make sure each of those bare wires is isolated, otherwise if the 12v constant, switched, or illumination circuit touch anything metal, it'll at least blow the fuse, at worst flames. The fuse block swings down too. Look for the tabs on the left and right, squeeze them together and pull down. The fuses are vaguely marked. Also turn the headlight knob all the way until the click. Turn it back until it just clicks off. Sounds overly obvious but the click turns on the dome light, just far enough back to click off the dome light is full brite. If the knob is turned all the way down, the dash lights go off. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro p.o had an after market cd player what wire and fuse should I be checking either for power or sw'd voltage? |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Usually the fuse that is visibly melted, or only one side of the fuse lights up when you probe it with your test light, or doesn't have continuity across the two pins when you test it with your DVOM, or the one that doesnt make the little green LED on your fuse tester, is the one that's kaput. You don't want any wire with a positive voltage going direct to ground in a 12v negative ground system. Generally speaking, in a GM application, orange is full time power, red, yellow, and pink can all be powered under various conditions. Gray seems to be associated with dimmer controlled lighting. But really you should probably find a wiring diagram for your car to be sure. The owners manual generally has a nifty chart of all the fuses and what they're for. Same with the service manual. Both come in handy cleaning up the previous owner's mess, and avoiding creating new messes. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Posting on the Interwebz about wiring, and NOT already taking care of PO garbage like that, is pretty much a total waste of time. How are we OUT HERE, who can't see under your dash as well as you can, supposed to GUESS what SPECIFIC kind of SODOMY your PO raped your car with? REALLY? If you see abuncha THAT kinda CRAP, the first thing you should do, is FIX IT. Don't even BOTHER posting on here or anywhere else until ALL of the bare wires, wire nuts, scotchlocks, and whatever other CRAP AND S***, are GONE and cleaned up. Nobody out here is going to be able to tell you when you ask why my fuse blew, "your PO left a dangling bullet connector behind the radio". That's total fantasy land. At SOME point, you have to take responsibility YOURSELF for doing your due diligence before you ask for help. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro I checked all fuses again , they all look good those wires from radio slot are accounted for... 8 for speakers, theres one connector with a ywl, blk and grey thats not connected and an orange and orange/brwn wire thats just hanging... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro The silver adapter is for the radio antena from prev owner radio |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro *smh* Yellow = radio power Grey = dash lights Black = ground What a monkey abortion |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro No need for all that ranting sofakingdom, if i knew what was ripped out or hacked i wouldnt be here asking for help.. all i know is gauge lights and gears lights dont work and i remove radio to put in an original 85 radio... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Thanks sofakingdom, where do i connect the plug too and what are orange and orange/brown wires for ?? They seem to be together.... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Nobody here is going to be able to help you. All we can tell you is, IT'S A GIANT HACK JOB. YOU, and only YOU, have to un-hack it. Once it's not abuncha bare wires and CRAP all … doing god only knows what, we can help you, Until then, NOBODY OUT HERE is going to be able to tell you EXACTLY what's hacked, where, how, and how it's making things go wrong. YOU have to grab your own fate with your own 2 hands and HANDLE IT. Once you clean up the mess, if something still doesn't work, maybe we can point you in some kind of fruitful productive direction, Until then, all we can do, is tell you, IT'S A FPRKING HACK JOB, and the best thing you can do, BEFORE "troubleshooting" ANYTHING, is to simply UNHACK it. This is not that hard to understand. It is not a "rant" except to the extent that it's annoying how many people get on here and do what you're doing and expect that somehow people out here are going to be able to somehow guess what kind of SODOMY the PO somehow put on your wiring somehow. WE CAN'T DO THAT. It's nothing but pure SODOMY. All we can do is, tell you it's SODOMIZED, and YOU need to undo that. THEN AND ONLY THEN, we can help you "troubleshoot" what's left. Orange is fused battery, the CTSY circuit. It's used at the radio to hold up the memory. Pushbutton setting, the clock, etc. Brown should be the ACC to the HVAC control head. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Ok, anyone else where that connectors or that grey wire gets to the cluster? I cant unhack what s been done to the radio, etc if i knew it would be to factory... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Im positive if i can find out where that connector goes, my gauge lights will work.. if they grey is the power then it has to go somewhere and not left hanging... i have whole dssh apart and cannot trace it... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Grey = dash lights It goes to a giant splice way up in there where about 8 or 10 grey wires all get their power from the dash light dimmer, then go out toward all their places. Dash, radio, HVAC controls, console, etc. Cut the connector off and tape the wire up. See if the fuse quits blowing. See if the rest of the lights start working. Clean it up, one act of sodomy at a time. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Ok thnk, sorry if im fustrating ya but once i cut off the connector where should i put the grey wire ? I do see some grey wires on left of gauge connector...but no meeting poibt....Btw, i never pop any fuses, they are all still good... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro The open gray wire (assuming we're talking about the mess of wires in the radio hole) probably went to the original radio, to control the dimming lights in the radio to match the rest of the dash. No radio, you just need to make sure the wire is isolated and cant touch anything else. Get a wiring diagram and study it until you understand what you're working with, otherwise you're not fixing a hackjob, you're hackjobbing the previous hackjob. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Thnks, but again, i have all the manuals but tracing wires is tuff... im trying to layout what is what while i everything open... it looks like ill have to remove whole dash to get a clear look at everything... but then again, how can all this be just from adding a radio.... nothing is fried, melted, cut/spliced, all fuses are good... should i go check the light switch thats pulls out and turn?? |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro I think i found a problem, i made test probe to check the fuse box, and im not getting power in either side of the 5a inst pnl fuse... is there a fix for this? Can the fuse box be moved or dropped so i can see if something is loose or brkn?? |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro I played around with light/dimmer switch that you pull in and out for lights and i can see the probe light flicker, like it temporary supplies power to that 5a fuse.. it feels really loose so i ll try and replace it... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Replaced switched now the 5a fuse gets powered when i pull out knob, also, im getting power to the 3 grey prongs that connect to gauge cluster on the left. Pins 3 and 4 on top row and pin 3 on bottom row. My bell also works now when the knob pulled and no key, however, the cluster is still not lighting up so i gotta check for a short or replace all bulbs. I checked the back copper traces for damage but nothing, looks good.... |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Replaced all but 2 bulbs now i have lights!!! So there was no hack job, just no radio and def headlight switch. Still no gear pos lights... So thanks all for the help |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro The shifter light is on the same circuit. "there was no hack job" but the Scotch-lock says otherwise. The advice still stands, Isolate each of those bare wires, clip the bare copper, tape off the stub. The speaker wires are no big deal, the power wires however will cost you fuses and potentially burns. |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro :thumbsup: It's amazing sometimes how those big 2-legged rats can get loose and chew on wiring under a dash. Thing is, sometimes ya gotta THINK LIKE one of Them. You know... there's " Us", whoever we are, and then there's … "Them"... whoever they are... you have to imagine, say, a stolen radio with the wiring cut off, that some low-life graunched at the car. A far cry from going to Best Buy or something, BUYING the radio, BUYING the install kit for the particular vehicle, and DOING IT RIGHT. In cases like this, They seem to think that doing stuff like what was in your first pic, is "improving" the car somehow. "They" go and acquire a radio somehow, legitimately or not, and proceed to HACKJOB it at … as opposed to "into"... the car. Leaving of course, all manner of land mines for Us to step on, when We buy the car. You're a victim of that. Glad you meticulously chased it down, isolated it, and fixed it. I hope that in the process, you realize that wiring isn't really all that hard to work on, and along the way recognized acoupla very important principles... the first, that about 90% of what goes wrong with it, happens at the ends; either when one of Them gets hold of it, or some connector burns up (connectors of course, being, by their very definition, at the END of the wires), or that sort of thing. It's pretty rare that you actually have to "trace" wiring. And then, that mostly, if it LOOKS effed up, it most likely IS effed up; and just making it LOOK right again, goes A LONG WAY toward getting rid of eff-ups committed by Them. And most of all, bare copper is BAD. :D |
Re: No Gauge Lights in the Camaro Thnx again sofa But i think i was the switch all along and those bare radio wires may have touched and killed all my bulbs. I still dont understand how the bulbs got fried and no popped fuse or open wires.. maybe it was done during radio install... |
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