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sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) working on a super low budget, decided to see if i could narrow my weak 26-spline, 7.5" rear. went to the junkyard and bought some old 26-spline, s-10 axles. and the project began. :) Attachment 318864 Attachment 318865 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) this is why i'm doing this. tires sticking out too much for the liking. Attachment 318862 Attachment 318863 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 1 Attachment(s) |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 4 Attachment(s) deburred and ground the edges down for a slip fit and decent weld. Attachment 318855 Attachment 318856 Attachment 318857 Attachment 318858 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 4 Attachment(s) measured everything a million times, tacked and welded it up using a cheap harbor freight tig inverter welder. i thought it worked real nice for the money. Attachment 318851 Attachment 318852 Attachment 318853 Attachment 318854 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) changed the axle seals but thought the bearings looked fine for this experiment. Attachment 318846 Attachment 318847 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) upon some further measurements, it looks like i'll be able to keep the factory tank and fill. Attachment 318844 Attachment 318845 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) because i'll be making/using some homemade coil overs, lol. Attachment 318828 Attachment 318829 Attachment 318830 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 1 Attachment(s) made some bracing today to hold the rear of the car up while i cut and re-fabricate things. also took the tank out just so it doesnt go "BOOM!" Attachment 318827 http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psq90b9cgy.jpg |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) i guess my next step will be figuring out the control arm mounts, then shock and sway bar mounts? Attachment 318825 Attachment 318826 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) i imagine the tubbing of the wheel wells last? but thanks for looking. i'll post progress pics as i go. Attachment 318823 Attachment 318824 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Looks pretty good! Next time add some plug welds where you welded the diff. They add a lot of extra strength for very little work. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow I'm not going to say yes or no about anything. The welds look great from an inexpensive TIG. I love seeing someone having a plan and jumping right in and doing it. Too many "How do I do this", "How can this be done" etc posts from people who really shouldn't be attempting the things they're asking. My only concern about your project is straightness of the tubes. I don't see a diff jig anywhere in the pictures nor do I see an alignment bar going through the tubes. All that welding, as straight as you try, will always cause the tubes to warp slightly. An alignment bar is a solid bar usually 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" thick and some aluminum pucks which replace the bearings and bolt the bar in place. Some locks at both ends of the bar holds everything tight. When I narrowed my 9", it was a lot simpler. I cut the ends off the tubes, cut the tubes to the length I wanted then welded the ends back on. I made a rough alignment tube to go through the diff after welding everything back up and found the tubes weren't straight. I had also welded on a back brace, coil over shock mounts and 4-link brackets. I used a 50 ton press at work to tweak the tubes as straight as I could get them. Haven't had a failed bearing yet and the axles slide nicely into the splines of the spool. After I narrowed my diff, I ordered the axles I wanted to the length required. As nice as those S10 axles may be, they're still very weak. Not all S10 axles are the same length. I hope you remember what year truck those came from. You can probably order aftermarket replacement axles which will be much stronger than OEM ones and if you change the posi to 28 spline, upgrade to 28 spline axles as well. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow i appreciate the honest input. i looked into one of those bars and it was $500! i took a million measurements and strategically tacked and welded in a certain order. i was surprised how close it came out. they were 84 s-10 axles. i had done a lil research first and moser does offer some replacement axles. all-in-all, this was an experiment and my first time narrowing a rear. still much work to do, but i'm happy so far. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow should be a fun experiment , later when you want to run it im sure they will want the c-clip eliminators installed. Ive had axles walk on on these 10bolts in 100% stock form with a drum rear. that's another spot the stock 9 bolt was better. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Rear disk brakes will act as good axle retention devices. If the end of the axle snaps off and a c-clip is lost, the caliper over the rotor will keep the axle from falling out. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow I'm guessing that's not the first time you ever tig welded if that's how your welds came out.
Originally Posted by AlkyIROC
(Post 6060824)
I'm not going to say yes or no about anything. The welds look great from an inexpensive TIG. I love seeing someone having a plan and jumping right in and doing it. Too many "How do I do this", "How can this be done" etc posts from people who really shouldn't be attempting the things they're asking. My only concern about your project is straightness of the tubes. I don't see a diff jig anywhere in the pictures nor do I see an alignment bar going through the tubes. All that welding, as straight as you try, will always cause the tubes to warp slightly. An alignment bar is a solid bar usually 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" thick and some aluminum pucks which replace the bearings and bolt the bar in place. Some locks at both ends of the bar holds everything tight. A big press is one way to straighten it, an easier way is to use a torch with a rosebud tip on it, you can heat the "long" side and then let it cool and it will shrink some. After I narrowed my diff, I ordered the axles I wanted to the length required. As nice as those S10 axles may be, they're still very weak. Not all S10 axles are the same length. I hope you remember what year truck those came from. You can probably order aftermarket replacement axles which will be much stronger than OEM ones and if you change the posi to 28 spline, upgrade to 28 spline axles as well.
Originally Posted by AlkyIROC
(Post 6060930)
Rear disk brakes will act as good axle retention devices. If the end of the axle snaps off and a c-clip is lost, the caliper over the rotor will keep the axle from falling out. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow good job, but wouldn't it have been easier to just get wheels with more backspacing? |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Looking at the large tires he's using and the rims they're mounted on, I'd say they already have a lot of backspacing. Adding more would have the center of the rim pushed outward even more. It would start to look something like a corvette rim. My tubbed out car has 15" wide rims. With my narrowed diff, a backspace of 5.5" works well but I still have enough room between the tire and the frame rails to use 6.5" if I really had to. The deep dish has a much nicer look with slicks. Another advantage is the shorter axles. Although not impossible, it's easier to twist a long axle than it is a shorter axles of the same diameter. Question about the TIG inverter. Did you do all those welds with 110v or 220v? Looking at the heat penetration on the tubes, I'm going to guess 220v. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) yes, i'm using 220 on a double throw 30 amp breaker with 100' of hard wire so i can reach pretty far away. i've been a welder for 25 years. just thought this was a nice machine for $200. its scratch start but can stick weld too obviously. running deeper dish rims would still have needed suspension and tub work. these rims are 5.5" backspacing. and i was wondering if shorter axles might be stronger? Attachment 318718 Attachment 318719 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 1 Attachment(s) not much progress to report. disassembled a few things like nitrous bracket, wires, seats, harness', etc. just getting stuff out of the way. made a few cuts for the control arm mounts. gotta start cutting somewhere, lol. Attachment 318717 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow eager to see how you fab up those lca mounts. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by AlkyIROC
(Post 6060930)
Rear disk brakes will act as good axle retention devices. If the end of the axle snaps off and a c-clip is lost, the caliper over the rotor will keep the axle from falling out. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 1 Attachment(s) yea, i shoulda started out with a 28-spline disk brake rear. but, this is what i had laying around to work with. luckily there is basically no tech at the 1/8 mile i've been to. my car is kinda slow too, only ran a best of 8.3 at 83mph so far. started throughing this together earlier for the control arm mounts. Attachment 318715 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Axle retention isn't mandatory until you run 10.99 in the 1/4 or 6.99 in the 1/8. Since you're only running 8.3, you have a long way to go until it's necessary to have it but having something you don't need never hurts. You could put a full cage in your car but don't really need it. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow I'm going to follow this thread very eagerly. I will convert to a 8.8 in a way that's pretty similar to how you did your narrow job. Cut tubes and weld in other tubes. I was planning on cutting them myself and finding a good place in phoenix to do the weld and straightening or just the straightening. I had read a couple threads across the internet where it was done without jigs and the results after useage were either not posted or excessive bearing wear. Very interested in you results over the next year! |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 4 Attachment(s) i did put a homemade cage in it already. on 4 spots, i drilled holes through the floor so i could weld directly to the SFC's, then welded a plate over them. i doubt its up to any "tech". just doing kind of a pro street type build. Attachment 318711 Attachment 318712 Attachment 318713 Attachment 318714 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 2 Attachment(s) i didnt get much done today. taking my time. but the car does have hareness', fire extinguisher, etc. a few safety items, lol. Attachment 318709 Attachment 318710 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow It that doesn't have a halo bar and A-pillar tubes, it's only a fancy roll bar and not a full cage. Those door bars won't allow you to run quicker than 11.49 in the 1/4 anyway. They don't pass between the shoulder and elbow so it's not even a legal roll bar. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow i agree 100% with you. i may add on to it at a later date? i forget why i put the bars low? i think i was trying to keep the stock door pulls or something? anyway, just showing where its at. i'll try to get back on topic next post. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) spent some time working on the mounts today for the control arms. Attachment 318681 had to leave some room for the arm to pivot and the grease zerk. Attachment 318682 Attachment 318683 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Those look great. Did you use a metal brake for those or is it a square tube? |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow thanks! it's 3"x3" square tube. theyre 6" long each. i sliced them down the middle and at 1/2", then flipped the drop over and welded it in. when i tack them in the car it will be more apparant to why the notch. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow First off, great job on the fabrication. My only question is, why do you need to tub and narrow the car? How fast are you going? We've got guys on the forum in the low 9s, high 8s in the1/4 and are not tubbed. -- Joe |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 6062460)
First off, great job on the fabrication. My only question is, why do you need to tub and narrow the car? How fast are you going? We've got guys on the forum in the low 9s, high 8s in the1/4 and are not tubbed. -- Joe thats a good question. i eventually would like to put more power into the car. never could get good traction, til i tried these tires. i just dont like them sticking out. also i do like the "old school" pro street look. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Plus good practice before doing it to a 9" :) |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) got my brackets tacked in place. i must admit it wasnt fun. a foot pedal or on/off button would be nice. but its coming along a little at a time. Attachment 318667 Attachment 318668 Attachment 318669 |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Great progress and fun to watch! Can you not use a 3/32nd stick and arc it? I have been doing some work on mine and don't have a MIG but find the stick is working well. I used to be a boilermaker/welder and still have a feel for it even not welding for 10+ years. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Welding on your back I think mig would be much easier than tig or stick. Do you only have tig? |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by Tibo
(Post 6063373)
Welding on your back I think mig would be much easier than tig or stick. Do you only have tig? -- Joe |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 1 Attachment(s) i do have a stick and flux core mig. i think i'm going to have to go one of those routes, especially in some of the hard the reach spots. i've been busy with work and havent had any time to mess with it lately. found another pic from the other day. Attachment 318664 if you look above the weld in this pic, you can see where i used a hole saw to cut about a 1 3/8" hole so that i can tighten the control arm nut/bolt. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow with all of your welding skills, have you starting doing any welding on the side for members? I might have a torque arm mount that needs to be welded to an 8.8 ford center section.... |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by Jaysz28
(Post 6063739)
with all of your welding skills, have you starting doing any welding on the side for members? I might have a torque arm mount that needs to be welded to an 8.8 ford center section.... sure, no problem Jason. that's all i do is odd welding and mechanic work for myself. i'm kinda far from you though. i'm north of st. pete area. i used to live in north ft. meyers. shoot me a PM and i'll give you my number. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) after days of rain and work, i finally got back on the project today. started looking at where the shocks need to be re-located, marked it out and got most of it cut out before it rained again, uhhggg. i plan on slicing a piece of pipe in 1/2 to fill the gap in the frame, etc., and of course beefing up the area. Attachment 318467 Attachment 318468 Attachment 318469 hope to get more done this weekend if the weather cooperates. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow Would it be possible to move the shock mount on the axle? You should have plenty of room to use the stock body side mount with that size wheel/tire |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by //\\
(Post 6068392)
Would it be possible to move the shock mount on the axle? You should have plenty of room to use the stock body side mount with that size wheel/tire |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow
Originally Posted by //\\
(Post 6068393)
I'm using coilovers in the stock location with 335/30/18 tires on a 12" wheels and have room still. do you have a link or a few pics? when i had my wheels/tires on, i could barely fit a finger between the control arm and tire. i'm always open to new ideas or ways of doing things. |
Re: sticking neck out/poor man's tub & narrow 3 Attachment(s) one thing i'm really trying to do is keep the factory gas tank. (super low budget build). so far it looks like its probably going to fit. took some measurements and painted the ground where the shock should be, and used a piece of 3" pipe to simulate the angle. Attachment 318441 made a template earlier for a plate that i plan on welding to the top of a piece of 4" pipe sliced in half. but heres the mess im at right now, lol. Attachment 318442 pic from the inside. Attachment 318443 |
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