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89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Hi guys, finally I started my swap last week. This forum gave me good info and so my swap is staight forward, but at this point I have 2 questions: When you did your swaps, which trans mounts did you use? The 4 Gen one or the 3. Gen one? I ask this, because the 4. Gen one is a little bit thicker and the mountig screw to the crossmember is centered, while the 3. Gen one is thinner and the screw is a little bit offset to the right... The second question belongs tho the radiator... How did you made them fit? Mine has "nozzle" on the underside (passenger side) that hits the frame, so it would sit aslant. Did you dril a hole??? I can provide pics later... Cheers Robert |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E I just see a 3rd gen trans mount and a modded 3rd gen trans crossmember. Auto trans. for radiator I’m using the 3rd gen radioed. If you’re have problems with the drain hitting tyen it sounds like you probably need to drill a hole. I think that’s what you’re talking about anyway. I assume this is a 4th gen radiator and the drain is on the bottom instead of the side? if you drill a hole make sure to protect the bare metal. |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Thanks for your input with the 3.Gen mount. And yes, I have to fabricate my own crossmember with a "tunnel" for the exhaust pipe from some 5mm steel. because the swap crossmember from Hawks I ordered was 160 € waste of money, it doesen´t fit in any way. I would love to keep my 3. Gen radiator, but how did you manage the size difference for the steam line connection? |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Just cut the alignment peg off the bottom of the 4th gen radiator. It isn't needed |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Modified the stock (3rd gen) peice as well.Fits better than the hawks part i tried first....as well.My radiator is aftermarket. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0d86aec6cc.jpg |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E My steam Vent goes back in at the water pump. You havent said what engine/trans you’re running. If it’s a truck engine and you’re using truck accessories you’ll need water pump spacers. My spacers were tapped for the fitting. edit::: never mind I see ls1. Never mind the post |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E
Originally Posted by scooter
(Post 6261404)
Just cut the alignment peg off the bottom of the 4th gen radiator. It isn't needed https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...7f9fee377c.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6a34a43b25.jpg But I´m still pretty unsure which radiator to go with.. The 4. Gen has the good steam vent connection, the 3. Gen fits a little better... :o |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Another thing I did yesterday was modifiying the trans crossmember... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...3b8d1cb31d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...82b7d4477c.jpg |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E
Originally Posted by Billgluckman
(Post 6261508)
You havent said what engine/trans you’re running. If it’s a truck engine and you’re using truck accessories you’ll need water pump spacers. My spacers were tapped for the fitting. edit::: never mind I see ls1. Never mind the post https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...49fcf44862.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...7daacd6201.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fee6d60e82.jpg He has relatively high milage (146k mls) but bought it very cheap so with the sale of all good parts, engine / trans and other stuff for the swap was free! |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E As it is a 98 model, it still has a metal tank... So no benefit for me to keep it, especially due to the different fuel-level-sending-unit. So I had to change my old TBI pump to the LS1 pump: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...52be6fe577.jpg 98´ fuel tank https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fd4e95e664.jpg left LS1 - right TBI https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...18dc8d7a33.jpg removed the LS1 pump https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6201189df5.jpg replaced the TBI with the LS1 pump https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c25180747e.jpg oh yes, they have different connectors, so I had to solder the "new" connector to the "old" wireing and put it back in the tank. |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Then I reworked the fuel delivery. I went the way with a late model Corvette C5 fuel filter, due to the built in regulator. This scheme, provided by Pocket helped me a lot to get the right connectors: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...53fb7c8998.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...b2dbd5a52e.jpg And here is the engine side: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...1c4359b8f2.jpg |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E If you had the tank and fuel lines, not sure why you bothered using the 3rd gen stuff |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Nice work either way. 146k isn’t really high. I’ve got no experience with the ls1 but I’ve got a 5.3 with 230k and a 4.8 with 250k. Both run great. |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E
Originally Posted by scooter
(Post 6261800)
If you had the tank and fuel lines, not sure why you bothered using the 3rd gen stuff Also the hardlines from the 4.Gen doesn´t fit very well without massive bending. It was no big Deal to modyfy the 3. Gen lines. A little bit cutting here and there... In the engine bay I bent the hardline a little upwards and used the original rubberhose with an AN6 adapter at the end for the LS connection. @ Billgluckman: THANKS |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Oh, and pls don´t have a deep look on the engine... I´have never seen such a dirty motor! :eek: Don´t know why the previous owner didn´t keep it a little bit cleaner. As soon as everything is hooked up right and engine runs, I will take it out once again for cleaning. |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Your swap in the Camaro is coming along nicely. Keep up the good work. You're going to love the way your car feels with the LS1 engine. I know I did when I swapped in an LS1/ 6 Speed into my 1988 GTA. |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E So after 4 weeks of not working on the car, here is the result of last saturday. To keep the engine bay as clean as possible at the end, I did 4th Gen Cooling Reservoir swap. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...aed83955bd.jpg Drilled the original welding points https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...2168b6baf8.jpg Removed original battery panel https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...bd12cc211f.jpg Fabricated some cardboard pattern https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...bd02e2ee3a.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...d332ca0cb9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...d49ee7e0f8.jpg Made the metal counterpart https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...623802e7fa.jpg weld it in... (of course, I cleaned all the metal from rust etc before priming and welding) https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...47647512b1.jpg and.... tataaaaa, its in |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Looking good Just a detail, but Id swap those hose clamps on your fuel lines for fuel injection clamps. Those hose clamps are rated for a coolant system (14psi). LS fuel systems operate at 55-60psi and can spike to 75psi |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Time went by, doing nothing on the car due to some private things. But since April I´m really busy and worked nearly every day in my garage. Did all the wireing, looming, heater box back in, radiator mounting, trans cooler installation, PCM under dash mounting... and so on. Here are some pics of the wireing... https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...5305b8fa9f.jpg So much wires https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...f90b69c763.jpg Labeled all of them https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6a5b4d765c.jpg Tried to route them in the engine compartment https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...d36c8bef68.jpg new, naked fuse box https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...e7fbdb91a9.jpg assembling... https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...b4cf6b1e6f.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...b340c1bc25.jpg find the right location... https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...2f26536d34.jpg first try with the cable routing for PCM under dash mounting https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...01923715c2.jpg a little tidied up https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...7c0635765b.jpg test fit the fuse box and power routing https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...84c18c852c.jpg Heater box in https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...bf5a4f9212.jpg Ready loomed |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fd71238d4c.jpg Cables inside passenger side https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...4b3dddd26a.jpg Fabed the PCM mount https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...bbb114d338.jpg Installed PCM https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...98deb145ef.jpg Looks like original |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E The new Y-Pipe and modified headers: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fc425c1349.jpg All the header bolts broke, I had to shred some new threads for the studs https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...a046f55098.jpg new studs in https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...73b6169f32.jpg removing AIR connection stuff https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...63cf4e145c.jpg . https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c77519874b.jpg All the new pipes for the Y-Pipe https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0ab3c0d9c1.jpg cutting the intermediate pipe https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...7987afad5a.jpg welding the 3" adapter in https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...67fcbdf1a2.jpg new 200" Cats with collector https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...4967ea1d36.jpg ... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...a9c0803eb3.jpg ... https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...e2486caab4.jpg Y-pipe is ready to install... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...e4e54e3286.jpg installed :-) ready for compete fusion |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Everything is hooked up, time for fireing the damn thing the first time... |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E And now I have a BIG problem, hope you guys can help me. When I removed the PCM from the donor car, I flashed it. Means, I deleated VATS, rear O2s, AIR and EVAP As you can see in the vid, the car runs, but when it´s "cold" it starts very bad - 15sec until fireing. Then it gets way to much fuel, runs mega rich and smells for fuel. You cant rev it in a proper line, it always has breaks and swallows up. Another curious thing is, the temp sensor reads 110° degree celsius in PCM, but my cluster gauge tells me normal temp. I changed the sensor two times for new parts, nothing changed. Do you have any ideas, or questions I can answer to you to get a better idea of my problem? Here are two pics: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...73cd902f04.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...cb98189257.jpg Thx Robert |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E
Originally Posted by Rock-Bert
(Post 6315629)
The new Y-Pipe and modified headers: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...fc425c1349.jpg All the header bolts broke, I had to shred some new threads for the studs https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...a046f55098.jpg new studs in https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...73b6169f32.jpg removing AIR connection stuff https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...63cf4e145c.jpg . https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...c77519874b.jpg All the new pipes for the Y-Pipe https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...0ab3c0d9c1.jpg cutting the intermediate pipe https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...7987afad5a.jpg welding the 3" adapter in https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...67fcbdf1a2.jpg new 200" Cats with collector https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...4967ea1d36.jpg ... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...a9c0803eb3.jpg ... https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...e2486caab4.jpg Y-pipe is ready to install... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...e4e54e3286.jpg installed :-) ready for compete fusion Im doing the same swap/car.where did you get those pipes apipesw exactly did you fab up the y pipe?? |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E - HELP too much fuel Just to give some background... I started my swap last autumn, before I pulled out the LS1 from the donor car (98 Camaro, all original) I took HPTuners to delete some codes. By installing the engine in my 89 Camaro, I did the AC delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, rear O2 delete and EVAP delete. My problems now are: - The car starts very bad when it´s cold (10 - 15 sec). When it has run a few seconds and I start it again, it cranks over immediately - The engine runs ok but not 100% calm. a little bit sloppy between 630 and 680 rpm. - For my swap I had to use the 3-wire CTS sensor, one wire for the PCM, one wire for the cluster. Here is a mysteria, because the sensor starts reading at 115degree, while the engine is cold. Within a few seconds the temp raises to 180degree, and after 4-5 minutes its at 230-250degree. While the cluster gauge is showing normal temp. - When I try to rev the engine, it doesn´t do this proper, it swallows up and does misfireing. What I did: - HPTuners AC delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, rear O2 delete and EVAP delete - closed the AIR hole on the top of the intake - welded all AIR and EGR holes in the headers - closed the vacuum line at the back of the intake - tried 3 different temp sensors, all the same result - much to high temp at the PCM - measured the ohms at the cts sensors -> ok - did a bypass cable directly from the sensor to the PCM -> same measurements / ok - PCM has a constant power well over 13V at idle - custom Y-Pype with 200" Cats - 2 new O2 sensors The car runs way too rich and when it turns from closed loop to open loop, it smells like fuel that it bites in your eyes. Thanks for your help! BR Robert https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/st...ser_online.gif https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E - HELP too much fuel
Originally Posted by Rock-Bert
(Post 6315973)
Just to give some background... I started my swap last autumn, before I pulled out the LS1 from the donor car (98 Camaro, all original) I took HPTuners to delete some codes. By installing the engine in my 89 Camaro, I did the AC delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, rear O2 delete and EVAP delete. My problems now are: - The car starts very bad when it´s cold (10 - 15 sec). When it has run a few seconds and I start it again, it cranks over immediately - The engine runs ok but not 100% calm. a little bit sloppy between 630 and 680 rpm. - For my swap I had to use the 3-wire CTS sensor, one wire for the PCM, one wire for the cluster. Here is a mysteria, because the sensor starts reading at 115degree, while the engine is cold. Within a few seconds the temp raises to 180degree, and after 4-5 minutes its at 230-250degree. While the cluster gauge is showing normal temp. - When I try to rev the engine, it doesn´t do this proper, it swallows up and does misfireing. What I did: - HPTuners AC delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, rear O2 delete and EVAP delete - closed the AIR hole on the top of the intake - welded all AIR and EGR holes in the headers - closed the vacuum line at the back of the intake - tried 3 different temp sensors, all the same result - much to high temp at the PCM - measured the ohms at the cts sensors -> ok - did a bypass cable directly from the sensor to the PCM -> same measurements / ok - PCM has a constant power well over 13V at idle - custom Y-Pype with 200" Cats - 2 new O2 sensors The car runs way too rich and when it turns from closed loop to open loop, it smells like fuel that it bites in your eyes. Thanks for your help! BR Robert https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/st...ser_online.gif https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E - HELP too much fuel 55 PSI BTW, yes I did the Y-Pipe myself. Did everything by myself :D |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E - HELP too much fuel
Originally Posted by Rock-Bert
(Post 6315984)
55 PSI BTW, yes I did the Y-Pipe myself. Did everything by myself :D I hope you find out why it's running rich. Im interested in this myself |
Re: 89 Camaro TBI to LS1/4L60E Just to finish that... It was a broken PCM and MAF... Upgraded to a 0411 99+ Car runs great now. |
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