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Supercharger 350 vs. 383 (aka Jack it up like a mother) whats a better bang for my buck? im not a rich boy so i gotta find the cheaper allaround better investment.... i figure i am going to get a rebuild soon anyways so i will either rebuild the 350 and build it up some and super charge it... or go 4 a 383 stroker.... im not gona supercharge w/ out a rebuild i have 103k miles..... it wont happen 4 a while anyways, i need a year or two to save some extra cash sense im in school now. ------------------ 89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms |
Honestly, in my opinion only, I think that you are better off with the 383 because a supercharger plus rebuild will cost AT LEAST $3,000! The most hp you can gain is about 400-450. With a 383 you have at least 400hp right there on the motor by itself and you'd be spending about the same amount of cash. After the 383 you jack it up like a mother and kill some Rustnags. That is my plan, as soon as I rob a bank or something. Consider Nitrous also! ------------------ It's all fun and games 'till someone looses an eye....then it's fun you can't see!! ------------------------- 1987 Pontiac Trans Am -305 cid motor -700-R4 Transmission -K&N Air Filter -Flowmaster 40 series Muffler -Yokohama Tires -GTA Rims -3" Exhaust Tips -180 degree Thermostat -2.73 Posi Rear End -JVC Head Unit w/ Kicker subs! -And a COOL LOOKING Flowmaster sticker on the dash! WOO-HOO!! *Long live the F-Body!* |
Originally posted by transampwr: With a 383 you have at least 400hp right there on the motor by itself and you'd be spending about the same amount of cash. You dont go from 225hp on a 350TPI to 400hp with a 383TPI. It doesnt work like that. To get 400hp out of a 383 you need to get OVER 1hp per cubic inch and that is going to take a good set of heads and a cam that is matched to it. As well as an intake that will support the rpm range of the cam. I would say get a decent rebuild on your 350 and then buy a blower. You will enjoy the power gains from it and you will have that cool whine coming from under the hood too. https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/wink.gif Good luck ------------------ -86 IROC Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress -=ICON Motorsports=- Cluelessness: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots. |
Here's and idea...do both. Speed-O-Motive sells basic 383 packages starting at $300Something and you can even upgrade to forged pistons, steel crank, etc. depending on your expectations for the engine. Stroker rebuild kits have become so much cheaper recently that I say spend the extra money and build a 383 while you have the motor apart and suppliment it with a Procharger to push the air through the TPI intake bottleneck https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/wink.gif. Just my $0.02. Kyle ------------------ 1990 Firebird Formula 350 speed density TPI; K&N, air foil, throttlebody coolant bypass, underdrive pullies, MSD 6AL, MSD HEI coil, 8.8mm wires, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Hypertech Thermomaster chip, 160* thermostat, fan switch, B&M stage 2 shift kit, Edelbrock 1&5/8 headers, gutted dual cats, Flowmaster 80 series muffler, 3.73 posi rear end |
after the 383, you jack it up like a mother... https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/biggrin.gif ------------------ 89RS w/ Rawidiot power package Powerhouse 334 stroker ported heads stock cam NOS octane booster 18.93 @ 69mph |
if i buy the kit how much will a good shop charge to put together a 383 as oposed to a 350 rebuild? i can do minor mods myself, but im not going to tear apart my engine, i want somebody to do it right... ------------------ 89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms |
. After the 383 you jack it up like a mother and kill some Rustnags |
I knew a guy that jacked it up like a mother with a 383 once wow it killed them Rustnags all day long. That thing even beat a GT once that had a paxton and K&N on it |
i went down that same road i went from a 305 to a 383 then added aftermarket tuned port stuff then the blower. check out my simple page at: http://darcom.home.texas.net/ ------------------ 388 SuperRam, DFI, Vortech R trim ,N.O.S.,alki injection, Dart sportmansII heads,50 pound injectors, Headman full headers duel 3' exhaust,and Flowmasters, Ford nine inch with 370's Ronal rims with Nitto drad raidals. |
Damn DARCOM....BAD *** RIDE! any times on it? |
wow i made that post a while ago! i think i will do this the right way, im going to build up a 383, then supercharge it. that wont b for a while, Headers are next on the list and buying a 2nd car that wont guzel so much gas https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/biggrin.gif ------------------ 89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98,AFPR, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone(no air cleaner box),flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, modified MAF, ported plemum, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms, EdelBrock Panhard bar, subfame conectors, March Pulleys, Jet fan switch,Throttle body bypass, BFG drag radials, Edelbrock strut tower brace, 3.27 posi rear, B&M deep tranny pan, B&M Shift kit... |
Go with a 383, Your anly talking a little bit more to build one as opposed to a 350. |
www.allchevyengines.com has a 470hp 383.( If you have that kind of cash ). I say that thing with a superam and a procharger and no rustang will be in front of you. https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/smile.gif |
Building a 383 and a blown 350 are not comparable in cost. If you have a limited budget you'll have to go the 383 route. I had $5000 into the supercharger alone on my Vette. You could keep the compression around 9.0:1 and give yourself some room for the supercharger later if you like. Also, someone implied that a 383 would have more potential and be stronger than a supercharged 350. For streetable engines that's not so. A properly prepared streetable supercharged 350 will annihilate a streetable N/A 383. Also, cubic inches don't equate into the power factor so much with forced induction engines. Stroke, piston area, rod length, etc. have more of an effect than cubic inches. |
speedomotive also has a longblock crankin out 500+ ponies in a 383. Want more? I believe they have a 900HP 500...maybe smaller. |
FWIW, i agree with QWKTRP, a blown 350 will out perform a 383 any day. it may not be faster & it may not get better gas mileage & it may not be cheaper. but if you look @ the big picture & rate each one of those things the overall score is going to be that the blower motor wins. this is a cost-benefit issue, mind you the cost is quite a bit higher than the NA 383, which I think was teh goal of 89Formula in the first place. BW ------------------ Bob Wooten 71 Camaro, 91 EFI r71chevy@earthlink.net www.r71camaro.homestead.com <>< |
I averaged 25 mpg on the freeway with the blown 355 in my Vette. I don't think a strong N/A 383 could have done that. The blown motor is generally more fuel conservative because you use a mild cam. Given equal Hp ratings, a N/A motor will likely be a faster setup because the torque curve will have a better profile then the supercharged motor. |
I can't believe someone mentioned a SuperRam...don't you want performance. Those things are for road racing at best. Get a carb based intake use it for EFI like that Accel piece if you are trying to build a serious NA engine. low end TQ is worthless if you are trying to go fast because your torque converter is gonna flash right past that to your real power band which should start more like 4000 RPM or even higher not like the TPI set up where its done at 4800 if you are lucky |
thats where the stroker comes in , for most you dont need a stall, your power is usually from 1500-5500, and you dont go super high revs (usually) and break stuff . supercharged motors are more efficient than a N/A motor. and unlike a turbo there's no lag, so the extra torque they build is on tap all the time. you could build a 6" rod 383 , even better than a 5.7 rod 383. 383's are brute torque motors which you need in a heavy *** car like a 3rd gen. the 383 plus blower is probably overkill, and overpriced. you could go 383 with juice and get the same power for half the cost. a well built motor will handle a lot of juice and you'll have to build it that way anyway for the blower (500+ hp on tap at all times is more than enough, why do you need 700+ with the blower for anything other than racing?) . if your talking more than 400 hp or over 5500 rpm's the stock tpi wont cut it. so thats more money if you want to stick with the tpi. and the you wont be quick if you dont pull high rpm's guy , dosent know what he's talking about. torque moves the car HP is secondary. a car properly set up that makes 400 ftlbs/hp @ 5252rpm will kick the crap out of a car that makes 400 hp at 6500rpm in the 1/4 . |
consider that a properly built engine is gonna cost $.let's debate it;if you go the 355 route and supercharge it,you would be smart to go with a forged kit.down the road when you want to add more boost(face it nobody is happy with what the got they always want more).on a 383 you're gonna spend cash on a decent 383 rotating assm. with a steel crank,good rods and pistons.not to mention you're gonna need better heads on a n/a car then a s/c car that's more money.then you must consider the intake and fuel system.dollar for dollar the s/c engine is a better alternative you can run a mild cam and ported stock heads and intake and still make great power where as most of your money is gonna go to the intake and heads on the n/a motor. just my.02:p |
earlier U asked how much more it is to assemble a 383 compared to a 350. . . the only difference is that alot more balancing needs to go into the rotating assembly of a 383, and it needs to ne PERFECT. My mechanic has told me that he has had to charge people up to almost a thousand dollars alone to balance the crank because they bought a **** crank. Don't buy a 400 dollar 383 set-up, you will be sorry, spend the grand to get what U need, forged pistons, steel crank, decent rods, even shot peened and magnefluxed and polished stock rods and all the good stuff. spend the money on the quality in the begining and you won't go wrong, don't buy ****. Mine will be done by the end of the year, and hopefully if all is good will be in the car by the end of the first week of 2002. I spent the g's in the begining to get the quality I wanted/needed, don't cheat yerself. good luck:D |
Build a 10:1 383 with good parts and spray it (even though Im not a Nitrous fan) or install a blower at a later date. I know of a couple of people stuffing 10psi in 10:1 383's. Hell... if you want cubes and are lucky enough to find a good virgin block, build a 406 with 11:1. I would be careful when it comes to spraying or stuffing a factory 400 block based engine due to the random cases of core shift and super thin cylinder bores (they are DIRECTLY tied together). |
It is all relative to how each is put together, Ive seen a procharged 383 that most of you 305 guys could beat here in cheyenne sad to say. |
It seems like you are asking for a direction to go in. Since you do not have a lot of cash for your rebuild but you plan on one try having your stock heads and intake ported along with a cam change you can gain quite a bit of power. When you go rebuild your engine go for the 383 route and buy quality parts. I love my turbo but N/A is so much easier to tune. Remember one thing 90% of all cars ever made will not go faster than 13.00 with a solid 383 with about 9.5 comp and a decent set of heads you will be faster than them and not have to spend a large amount of money either. |
I needed a good laugh After the 383 you jack it up like a mother and kill some Rustnags. LMFAO!!:D |
Re: I needed a good laugh 1 Attachment(s) Originally posted by Guido LMFAO!!:D |
Im not considering doing it in anyway, thats soooo .....*******. but wouldnt that last pic work for a couple HP, I mean no where near a real supercharger, but ya gotta figure its forcing more air in, real superchargers compress air....that might a lil bit I know its not worth the humiliation of doing it, but wouldnt it be good for some hp and WHY THE HELL would you leave the TORO decals on it, I'd atleast paint that thing if it were my car :confused: |
I have to yes, or atleast probably. Once while dynoing a customers newer style Lightning he used the air compressor with a air chuck to blow air at the MAF while it was dynoing just for S&G and it made more power. we were just curious. then I introduced him to the nitrous fairy. and his 5000# truck runs 12's now at 5500 feet altitude |
Originally posted by B4Ctom1 and his 5000# truck runs 12's now at 5500 feet altitude |
it was only a 12.88 but it does it regularly with a gremlin keeping it from hitting out of the hole. UPDATE: #1 qualifier at St. Louis at the WFC 5/18/02 in the street lightning class with a 12.1 still with the same gremlins!!! and a 13.5 on the motor!!! (all with the speaker box still behind the seats!!!) |
Originally posted by B4Ctom1 it was only a 12.88 but it does it regularly with a gremlin keeping it from hitting out of the hole. UPDATE: #1 qualifier at St. Louis at the WFC 5/18/02 in the street lightning class with a 12.1 still with the same gremlins!!! and a 13.5 on the motor!!! (all with the speaker box still behind the seats!!!) :eek: |
BAM! Resurected (sp?)! |
I'd go for the supercharged 350-355. I too don't believe all the hype about more cubes being better. With a S/C motor it is all about cubic efficiency. I have made over 900 fwhp with a 355ci. |
Originally posted by BlownBird I have made over 900 fwhp with a 355ci. |
Originally posted by posbird87 thats awesome... but fwhp? as in front wheel hp?:p |
that makes alot more sense:p |
Originally posted by QwkTrip Building a 383 and a blown 350 are not comparable in cost. If you have a limited budget you'll have to go the 383 route. I had $5000 into the supercharger alone on my Vette. You could keep the compression around 9.0:1 and give yourself some room for the supercharger later if you like. Also, someone implied that a 383 would have more potential and be stronger than a supercharged 350. For streetable engines that's not so. A properly prepared streetable supercharged 350 will annihilate a streetable N/A 383. Also, cubic inches don't equate into the power factor so much with forced induction engines. Stroke, piston area, rod length, etc. have more of an effect than cubic inches. ok maybe i misunderstood but i thought he was asking between a 350 and 383 when he does the rebuild, then a year or two later he will add the blower to what ever motor he builds.... if your definately going blown (probably cheaper than heads, high performance EFI, etc) then just do the 350, you can keep your stock tpi, and like dude said above in a blown motor cubic inches dont matter as much, and so i personally would go with a 350, i'd make sure to go with a 6in rod though in either case, and if your definately going blown go for 8.7-9.0 compression... also those 500HP 383's people were speaking of you cant add a blower to those, and for a 500 HP crate 383, that will cost more than a rebuilt 350 and blower im not against a 383 by anymeans, i do like em, but why does it seem like everyone on here thinks that 383's are the best motor you could posibly have?!? around here in denver CO there are plenty of streetable 302's and 327's that can waste streetable 383's..... i know a 383 has more HP potential, but it starts guzzling gas, and becomes less streetable, etc |
Its been a while. back to the top ya go |
Holy crap this threads out of control!! My .02 cents- Build a forged 383. By building a forged 383 it would be more cost effective than going with a 355/350 with a blower. You would have a fun car to drive with lots of torque and wouldnt have to deal with the crap of todays superchargers. (Belt slip, intercooler blocking airflow to radiator, etc) You said bang for your buck right? Forged 383 and N20 is probably your best bet IMO. Boost is really expensive to do correctly. |
Re: Supercharger 350 vs. 383 (aka Jack it up like a mother) Originally posted by 89FormulaL98 Re: Supercharger 350 vs. 383 (aka Jack it up like a mother) ------------------ 89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms What is "Jack it up like a mother"? Does that translate into something like....I think my car is fast or something. Must have come from all of the tech talk in Fast & Furious. I think the Toro person should have went with a Blue Toro or some red hoses. It would have matched better. Interesting, cheesy non-boost pipe after the MAF with the Toro setup. Wonder how that works. Probably not too well. I haven't see any 20HP+ Toro blowers out there. |
Goido, YOUR ALIVE! I thought we had lost ya. DonB. |
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