|
recipe for a 450-500HP from a 400SBC I need combos that will make use of what I have(IF POSSIBLE)Its currently a MAF TPI car that will be converted to SD if I choose to stay FI..If not Ill go carb..Please give out as many combos as you can either carb or TPI to reach this goal or close to it.. TFS G1 heads 240cfm@.550(conservative rating) Stealth ram intake 400 2 bolt (standard bore) 400 crank(standard) 30lb SVO injectors 5.7 pm rods Car is daily driven in the summer,used in many 600 mile long drives and weekend track runs.. Daz |
Here's one I'm going with for 530 HP and 500 pounds of torque. Edelbrock ETec 200 heads, Edelbrock Air Gap RPM intake, Solid flat tappet cam at 240/248 .510/.510, full exhaust and a 800 cfm Holley. |
i want to turbocharge mine |
Change the heads. |
I wish it was 1997 Daz |
the recipe is money |
Well you're already losing the TPI and going with a Stealth Ram, so at least your goal is attainable. A TPI won't flow enough air to support much above 350 HP, no matter what you do to it. Horsepower is pretty simple, if you go back to the basics. Power comes from burning fuel. Each molecule of fuel contains a certain amount of energy. To obtain a certain amount of power, you must burn a certain amount of fuel. To burn the fuel, you must have the correct amount of air to go with it. HP = energy per time, which = gasoline molecules per time (lbs/hr), which require air per time (cfm). It's all numbers. No magic. Add up how much fuel you're putting in, the numbers will give you horsepower, within a couple of percent. Determine your air flow capacity, the numbers will tell you how many horsepower you have the air for. Simple. Get some other heads. Those will produce plenty of power but will also cause you plenty of headaches. IMHO not worth the hasle when there are other options. AFAIK there are no PM rods that will work with a 400 stroke without massive amounts of clearance work. The part number for them is a 350 rod. Pick something designed for the 400 in the first place. 30 lb/hr injectors are barely enough for 400 HP at 80% duty cycle. You'll probably need to step those up. See paragraph #2. For the Stealth Ram, I'd recommend a cam in the 224-228° @ .050" intake range, all the lift you can possibly get, the largest heads with standard valve locations and such that you can get such as Dart or ProAction, the cam's exhaust lobe suited to the heads' flow properties, its lobe seapration as close as possible consistent with good idle, and either an aftermarket computer such as Accel or Haltech or Speed Pro, or a whole lot of time and effort in PROM programming. |
Aluminum Pro Lightning heads $870 shipped with a few other buyers. I just bought mine, should be here next week, car won't be runnin for another month or so though. |
Originally posted by Odyssey Here's one I'm going with for 530 HP and 500 pounds of torque. Edelbrock ETec 200 heads, Edelbrock Air Gap RPM intake, Solid flat tappet cam at 240/248 .510/.510, full exhaust and a 800 cfm Holley. |
Originally posted by RB83L69 Well you're already losing the TPI and going with a Stealth Ram, so at least your goal is attainable. A TPI won't flow enough air to support much above 350 HP, no matter what you do to it. Horsepower is pretty simple, if you go back to the basics. Power comes from burning fuel. Each molecule of fuel contains a certain amount of energy. To obtain a certain amount of power, you must burn a certain amount of fuel. To burn the fuel, you must have the correct amount of air to go with it. HP = energy per time, which = gasoline molecules per time (lbs/hr), which require air per time (cfm). It's all numbers. No magic. Add up how much fuel you're putting in, the numbers will give you horsepower, within a couple of percent. Determine your air flow capacity, the numbers will tell you how many horsepower you have the air for. Simple. Get some other heads. Those will produce plenty of power but will also cause you plenty of headaches. IMHO not worth the hasle when there are other options. AFAIK there are no PM rods that will work with a 400 stroke without massive amounts of clearance work. The part number for them is a 350 rod. Pick something designed for the 400 in the first place. 30 lb/hr injectors are barely enough for 400 HP at 80% duty cycle. You'll probably need to step those up. See paragraph #2. For the Stealth Ram, I'd recommend a cam in the 224-228° @ .050" intake range, all the lift you can possibly get, the largest heads with standard valve locations and such that you can get such as Dart or ProAction, the cam's exhaust lobe suited to the heads' flow properties, its lobe seapration as close as possible consistent with good idle, and either an aftermarket computer such as Accel or Haltech or Speed Pro, or a whole lot of time and effort in PROM programming. My point is since I have to sell the injectors anyways and I havent ordered the Stealth Ram..maybe Im better off going carb.. Do I need to do anything special to the shortblock(stock crank and block)aside from align honing them with plates ,cealning etc..Do I need to get the mains splayed?ANd or use studs or just plain old ARP bolts would do?? Daz |
If a TPI (completely modded/ported) can't flow enough to make more than 350HP than how are other people doing it?? How is that 9 sec. T/Ced TPI IROC-Z28 doing it, I'm sure it has more than 350HP?? |
How much nitrous on that 9-second car? How many people with long-tube runners do you know that are going faster than 13s without it, or other assist? There's no question it's easier to go fast with a carb, certainly tuning is less of a hassle. But there's no reason FI can't produce just as much power. It's all about fuel and air. Get plenty of both into the motor, it'll make power. The Stealth Ram is actually a re-hashed version of an old street tunnel ram they made (might still make) with injector bungs and a box plenum added. There's not much mystery to it really. It should be able to make about 450 HP before it runs out of flow, and there should be some room for improvement. If you have successfully worked out the valve train and piston clearance issues with those heads, then you're aheaad of most people; they seem to be hard to get set up right. Cams with lots of lift (which you'll need for a 400) make matters that much more difficult. For 450 HP, you'll need close to 40 lbs/hr of fuel flow capacity per cylinder, to operate the injectors at 80%. Remember, HP = gasoline molecules per time, which is just another way of saying lbs/hr. How much power were you making with the 383? What induction was on it? If it was a LTR TPI, I'd be real surprised if it was doing much past 350 or so, which would have been enough to put the car in the very low 13s.... right about at the TPI air flow brick wall. IMHO 450 HP is a walk in the park for a 400 block. The block is OK as it is; spend any "insurance money" on the rods and crank instead, those are where a failure will occur first. As far as torque, if you fill the 400 cylinders 100%, it should make somewhat over 500 ft-lbs at the crank , at whatever RPM the induction system produces 100% fill. Obviously the way to make big horsepower is to do this at as high a RPM as possible, since HP is simply torque x RPM it occurs at x 5252. TPI is carefully designed to make its peak torque at around 3600, at the expense of anything above that; that's why it's so hard to get competetive HP production out of it. If some other hypothetical induction system makes the same peak torque as a hypothetical TPI at 5400 RPM instead of 3600 RPM, that's 1½ times as much HP. |
But TPI would make more TQ. I'm sure theres people running better than you think with modded TPI's, theres a few in the Readers Rides also. All I know is that the 9 sec. car has a T/C or maybe S/C, never heard it had N2O before. |
Originally posted by RB83L69 How much nitrous on that 9-second car? How many people with long-tube runners do you know that are going faster than 13s without it, or other assist? There's no question it's easier to go fast with a carb, certainly tuning is less of a hassle. But there's no reason FI can't produce just as much power. It's all about fuel and air. Get plenty of both into the motor, it'll make power. The Stealth Ram is actually a re-hashed version of an old street tunnel ram they made (might still make) with injector bungs and a box plenum added. There's not much mystery to it really. It should be able to make about 450 HP before it runs out of flow, and there should be some room for improvement. If you have successfully worked out the valve train and piston clearance issues with those heads, then you're aheaad of most people; they seem to be hard to get set up right. Cams with lots of lift (which you'll need for a 400) make matters that much more difficult. For 450 HP, you'll need close to 40 lbs/hr of fuel flow capacity per cylinder, to operate the injectors at 80%. Remember, HP = gasoline molecules per time, which is just another way of saying lbs/hr. How much power were you making with the 383? What induction was on it? If it was a LTR TPI, I'd be real surprised if it was doing much past 350 or so, which would have been enough to put the car in the very low 13s.... right about at the TPI air flow brick wall. IMHO 450 HP is a walk in the park for a 400 block. The block is OK as it is; spend any "insurance money" on the rods and crank instead, those are where a failure will occur first. As far as torque, if you fill the 400 cylinders 100%, it should make somewhat over 500 ft-lbs at the crank , at whatever RPM the induction system produces 100% fill. Obviously the way to make big horsepower is to do this at as high a RPM as possible, since HP is simply torque x RPM it occurs at x 5252. TPI is carefully designed to make its peak torque at around 3600, at the expense of anything above that; that's why it's so hard to get competetive HP production out of it. If some other hypothetical induction system makes the same peak torque as a hypothetical TPI at 5400 RPM instead of 3600 RPM, that's 1½ times as much HP. Im looking to pattern this build up on the crate HT383 motor but with an XE282HR (08-432-8) cam or the 306 cam(Comp 306-8) or close to it..Would this cams make that power??I figure my TFS heads are up to par if not better than the crates heads and the only other difference would be the strokes(Im going to use 5.7").. The piston clearance was solved by getting 12:1 compression pistons then put valve reliefs on it for clearance..Question..How do I pick a rotating assembly for this block if my valves are not in the traditional position?Am I stuck with either custom pistons or machined pistons?I guess thats not too bad but Im trying to save $$ wherever I can without sacrificing strength and efficiency.. thanks for the response..Learning how to build a 350-400 HP motor is waaaaaay different than building a 450-500HP motor..lots to learn Daz |
more questions..Is it worth it going to a 6" rod?? Daz |
I honestly don't think so. I went with 5.7" rods on my 406. |
Originally posted by 99Hawk120 I honestly don't think so. I went with 5.7" rods on my 406. Daz |
I'm using the pro action Iron Lightning, 200cc intake, 72cc chambers, as cast. These are really some NICE looking heads. Ask Ed M, he got a good look at them last night. But alas, you can't get them from summit any more. As far as the rods, it's just going to be some generic performance 5.7" rod. |
<b>The piston clearance was solved by getting 12:1 compression pistons then put valve reliefs on it for clearance </b> and you also said: <b>used in many 600 mile long drives and weekend track runs.. </b> Now i gather you dont expect to run PUMP gas since you have 12:1 compression. how do you figure travelling 600 miles without using pump gas? And dont expect fuel economy with a carb and a serious induction setup. even FI can only get you so far when the rest of the engine is balls to the wall. |
Originally posted by Kingtal0n <b>The piston clearance was solved by getting 12:1 compression pistons then put valve reliefs on it for clearance </b> and you also said: <b>used in many 600 mile long drives and weekend track runs.. </b> Now i gather you dont expect to run PUMP gas since you have 12:1 compression. how do you figure travelling 600 miles without using pump gas? And dont expect fuel economy with a carb and a serious induction setup. even FI can only get you so far when the rest of the engine is balls to the wall. Im not expecting economy..Im more concerned with efficiency.Im not always stupid..I only get stupid when I meet somebody that is.. Daz |
you didnt specify you were at 10:1 now. 12:1 would have required expensive race gas, and lots of it. the cost alone travelling 600 miles a few times on race fuel would have bought you a 1200 horsepower twin turbo setup that would run on pump gas. its not jeprody, im just trying to figure out how you expect to travel so far without some sort of economy figured out. if you have a high horsepower 400 with a 3500 stall and 4.11 gears it will suck fuel like nothing you have ever seen. <b>Car is daily driven in the summer</b> how can you NOT be concerned with economy? you obviouselly love to drive your car, well, I do too! the only reason I spent hours altering my combo when i could have left it as-is was to achieve a much higher state of fuel economy. <b>12:1..10.4:1 after putting valve reliefs on.. </b> those must have been some huge valve releifs. what sort of pistons are they? I assume you already did this since your first post pointed out you already have your 400 set up. <b>I only get stupid when I meet somebody that is.. </b> then i must be the stupidest fool on this board. you are searching for a 500 horsepower N/A combo out of a stout 400 block, but you daily drive your car. you claim 600 mile long drives but you are not concered with fuel economy. you must be rich, or I am a fool. |
Originally posted by IROCZTWENTYGR8 If a TPI (completely modded/ported) can't flow enough to make more than 350HP than how are other people doing it?? How is that 9 sec. T/Ced TPI IROC-Z28 doing it, I'm sure it has more than 350HP?? had anything to do wth it? :doh: :doh: :doh: |
Daz you're askin' for alot here. Those Twisted Wedge heads do great job up to a point but then it's a big $$$$ing brick wall. The way to get that kind of power, reliably on a street driven daily driver is to use the very best flowing heads and induction available and a relatively mild HYD roller cam. Like a set of the popular CNC ported 195cc AFR's or simular. I like Brodix Track 1's that are hand ported and flow tested (over 305 cfm) This will be easier, simpler, cheaper in the long run and a joy to drive. A good "Street Motor" has great breathiing induction and exhaust and mild cam timing (lots of lift). Go to the AFR internet site and check out some of their combo's and what goes into them. The cost of reworking your heads and doing the mods to a motor to fit them will break anyones budget. And you won't be happy with it in a lot less time than you think. Sell off the TFS heads and start with something that has the best $power/cost ratio.$ The Afr's and Pro Action heads are great but.... Right now, in the southern Ontario market, the professionaly prepared Brodix Track 1's are the way to go. Both from a performance and cost standpoint. You can do this and have your cake too ( or most of it) but the TFS heads are not the way to go. Once you get past that, the rest will be quite easy. :nod: |
Originally posted by Kingtal0n you didnt specify you were at 10:1 now. 12:1 would have required expensive race gas, and lots of it. the cost alone travelling 600 miles a few times on race fuel would have bought you a 1200 horsepower twin turbo setup that would run on pump gas. its not jeprody, im just trying to figure out how you expect to travel so far without some sort of economy figured out. if you have a high horsepower 400 with a 3500 stall and 4.11 gears it will suck fuel like nothing you have ever seen. <b>Car is daily driven in the summer</b> how can you NOT be concerned with economy? you obviouselly love to drive your car, well, I do too! the only reason I spent hours altering my combo when i could have left it as-is was to achieve a much higher state of fuel economy. <b>12:1..10.4:1 after putting valve reliefs on.. </b> those must have been some huge valve releifs. what sort of pistons are they? I assume you already did this since your first post pointed out you already have your 400 set up. <b>I only get stupid when I meet somebody that is.. </b> then i must be the stupidest fool on this board. you are searching for a 500 horsepower N/A combo out of a stout 400 block, but you daily drive your car. you claim 600 mile long drives but you are not concered with fuel economy. you must be rich, or I am a fool. If you have any common sense you probably would have gathered that the piston was machined down..end of story..OR your just gonna go on and on about something thats not relevant..You are not a fool but a professional arguer quoting people in context...Go bother somebody..At least Mark Shields is funny.. F-Bird88 thanks for the replies..I think Ill just go that route Daz |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands