1 solid lifter out of 16 has failed? stumped
 

ok i posted questions somewhere else and i thank you guys for the answers but today i removed my intake to check my lifters because i had some chatter and while lookin it over and what not, i realized that the #7 exhaust pushrod felt like it had a hydraulic lifter in there when all the others are solid and felt solid...so i took it all apart and got at that lifter.. and the lifters are all identical and show no wear, but that one lifter can be pushed in with the pushrod about a 1/4 inch acting like a hydraulic but they are solids... do solid lifters fail? they were not cheap lifters comp cams i think... but now i have 15 solid feeling lifter and 1 that is moving around like this... im confused..

How does a solid lifter fail? Can you post a photo of the top of this "solid" lifter?

i dont know i took all 16 out every one is solid no movement no matter how hard you push... no oil in them either.... but 1 moves 1/4 inch...the one on the right..

Those look like hydraulic lifters to me.

Ahhh... The Magnetic Magilla knew exactly where I was going with that request. ;)

Sooooo
 

so which is good the one that moves or the ones that dont
is there a way to check them "dry"

i dont think so... i have found many lifters on ebay and google that are solid and look like this... i know i would get people sayin ..."there hydraulic lifters" cause they look like that. why cant they look like that and be solid?the hydraulic lifters ive seen look a little different to me also.. why does no other of the 16 move AT ALL? not at all and i blew all the oil out of each...look like they were machined out to make the oil passages and then put together in this way..

all i know is 15 dont move and 1 does... ill get new ones but i was just curious... if they are hydraulic then 15 are stuck?... i have drained them and tried everyone to see if it will push down, not even a hammer and an old pushrod will get them to move even the slightest.... and they are not in the down position already i can clearly see each one is at the top where it should be... who knows

Then i'd have to say 15 are stuck....look closely in there...there is a retainer clip.....why would a solid lifter need a retainer to hold it together.? just my 2 cents.

i have seen other solid lifters with a clip in them... my lifters have a pressed in metal piece that is not removeable... and im sure the other 15 couldnt be stuck... there is no play in any of the 15 and the valve with this one "bad" lifter was snappin and makin all kinds of chatter...i could feel the difference when i touched them while running..i will take them out and ship them to someone who wants to check em out..

and most lifters now have something in them to prevent over oiling... which would explain why they were put together with a few pieces instead of a solid block of metal.. thats what i was thinking anyway.and most all the hydraulic ones ive seen have a thin metal wire type retainer clip that is kinda 5 sided and sittin in there..

okay are your pushrods hollow or are they solid? as in do they have a hole on each end? if they do then those are hydraulic lifters period... when you do an oil change do you have to adjust valve lash? no then those are hydraulic lifters

i was wonderin bout the clip after i posted....but in reply to SpitotRs305....that doesn't make any sence at all...how the heck is oil supose to get to your rockers if there was no hole through the pushrod. We build race engines all the time with solid lifters...they all have a hole through the pushrod. the new ones even have a small pin hole through the bottom of the lifter so that it oils the camshaft....thus we can block off the holes in the valley of the block....theory being that no unneeded oil is splashing down over the cam and further to the crank. (suposedly that small splash is equivalent to haveing a greater reciprocating mass) sounds like b/s i know....just tellin you what all the racers are doin.

http://www.compcams.com/technical/Ca...07/248-265.pdf

they are on page 4

wouldnt a pin hole on the bottom of a lifter screw up a cam shaft?

Apparently not...honestly....i can't imagine trusting the damn things to lube the cam on my personal engine....but i'm not kiddin ya...thats what some of these racers around here run....i mean, i'm talkin about a miniscule hole....when i say pin hole...i mean like...smaller than the eye in a sewing needle.
As for the pushrods...it does say that they're non oiling...which to be honest i have never seen until now....but that doesn't mean that is what are used on solid lifters. i.e. http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...09071&D=309071 all of those lifters have oiling holes.

yes that is the point if he can compress the inside of a lifter then they are hydraulic i think he is assuming that a hydraulic lifter is easy to compress which they are not but because one is easy that means he has one bad hydraulic lifter not 15 stuck lifters or one colapsed solid lifter...if that is even possible

that was simply a retorical question

Those are pushrods, not lifters...

If those come in contact with the cam, then you have some serious issues:eek:





Pending a better pic, i vote they are hydraulics and one has calved

i know i was showing pushrods with non oiling tips

haha, sorry i didnt read all of the post above yours. i though you were talking about the pushrod trying to lube the cam...


A hole on the bottom of the lifter probably doesnt help for the longevity of the cam. But then again, hes talking a race motor that might only see a few hours of use between rebuilds.

i'd definately have to agree that they are hydraulic....and that's happened to me before as well. i rigged it up....didnt even replace it at the time....just tightened the SOB down to take up the lash. lol..i'm not however recomending that practice in anyway.....also...i'll try to get some pics of these lifters i was talking about with the oiling hole in the bottom.

Those are Howards direct-lube lifters (or everyone else's clones). They have a small oiling hole EDM'ed into the end to supply more oil to the lobe, presumably to offset wear from heavy springs and hopefully to counteract the newer formulation oils' lack of EP additives.

ok but all the other lifters wont budge if i tighten down the rockers on any of the other 15 the lifter doesnt preload only opens the valve...so i will get a set of hydraulic lifters and put them in...i know i should change the cam but im a little iffy on #1) getting a cam size good for me.. and #2) installing it correctly so the timing is correct... it would be easy cause the whole car is ripped apart but it is 20 degree's here so lifters sound easy enough... i should get hydraulics right? i still feel that these arent supposed to move i cant move the others no matter how much pressure...(big freakin hammer)

It's harder to install a cam timed incorrectly than it is to install it correctly.

If it is a solid lifter cam, hydraulics may not be a good choice. Hydraulic cam grinds typically have a different (more abrupt) pre-lash ramp ground in. There is a short area of the lobe leading edge which raises the lifter quickly but slightly to force the check valve in the lifter to slam shut and trap its oil. The remainder of the lobe is ground at the normal ramp/rate. A solid lifter cam grind typically does not have this feature, and may cause loss of net lift and duration due to the tendency to allow the lifters to bleed down a bit more. This applies to roller and flat tappet lifter cam grinds.

If you have a solid lifter cam, stick with solids. If it is a hydraulic grind and someone installed solids (for whatever reason) you should install hydraulics.

drex: you are not the only one that had a problem like that.. there are several other folks on here that had that problem.. i was one.. one of the lifter/lobe in my motor ground itself down in under 300 miles.. i figure it must have been within 200.. but anyway, i tore the motor apart again, cleaned it like my life depended on it, put in fresh bearings, and a new cam and lifter set.. i used GM EOS during the rebuild as well.. i now run ONLY SHELL ROTELLA oil in my motor.. it has been working like a charm ever since.. (knock on wood) i say just rebuild, and start fresh.. use ROTELLA oil.. i think its 15w-40.. and if this happens again, dont bother with another solid flat tappet.. go roller..

T/A_SXracer: i have been through a few sets of comp cams solid lifters and all of them have clips holding the pushrod seat in.. i know this because i have taken them apart to find chunks of metal in there.. (from when my first motor went POOF)

My bad....i stand corrected.

my motor is ok...i fired it and it has maybe 20k if that... i am pretty sure it was hydraulic cam but my stupid friends at the time said for a stick shift car solid lifters would be better...i had no clue and just wanted my car running...i really should get a cam and lifter set..my motor is old with old camel hump heads i believe (will get numbers tomorrow) no holes for the valley spider i think you need for rollers... i do have a set of rollers from a newer 305 but they i guess wont work..... i am iffy on 1) getting the cam in correctly and 2)buying the right cam...any suggestions? the car is already ripped half apart anyway..should i get new timing chain 20k? should i get a hydraulic cam? and what lift and duration? i of course want it as fast as possible with no care to gas mileage... i know the heads probably suck and the edelbrock isnt to great but that could be upgraded but my car is pretty sweet and so far only maybe 2500 bucks into it including car... i am cheap...but smart and thrifty anyopinions thanks alot too guys:thanks:

As a rule of thumb, this is just me, but i always replace the timing chain and gears if your putting in a new cam, they dont cost that much so theres no reason not to. I'd get a double roller for sure. Unfortunately i have no suggestion for you for a cam. And no, the roller lifters you have wont work unless your block allready was made for them, which it apparently is not. Your best bet, IMHO, would be a set of retrofit roller lifters, that is if you are really wanting rollers. Be prepared to pay for 'em though.....there's not a whole hell of a lot that being thrifty will do for you to get a cheap set of them. Unless you're o.k. with some used, solid roller lifters. And if thats the case send me a message, i think i could come up with 2 or 3 different sets...i'm sure theres a full set of good ones in 'em.

for a daily driver with low end torque look here
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

for more top end
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku


i am showing you these cause i am not exactly sure what kind of lift camel humps can take..and for timing chain i would do it i mean you have to take it off anyways why not put a new one on?

if you really want to convert to a roller set up take a look at this
www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tech-general-engine/221883-pre-87-block-accept.html?highlight=retro+roller+lifter

i had a simmilar thing happen to me on my stock bravada tbi and one of my lifters top pieces kicked out randomly and all the rest were fine, so it does not need to be a hydralic lifter.