Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

To go slow it looks like ;)

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Well I can tell you right off the bat, why myself
opted to run a set of 081 casting heads on my build.

The majority of us dont have the spare coin to go
ahead a float $300-400 on a set of Brodix or AFR's.
If I had the money before I built my fresh 350,
you know I would have a great set of aftermarket
heads.. but, I had a set of 081's begging to be used.

To be honest, good streetable power can be extracted
from 081, 416 or 083 casting heads. Not to say they will
net you 12 second ET's, but..

I do get your point, But like anything in motorsports,
trial & error is an effective way to figure things out on
your own.

especially if your novice.

Nice topic :)

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

mustangs are ugly,surely that red mustang/capri with the 1970 wheels is.Just when I thought it couldnt be worse I saw the inside of one of these boxes with wheels and the inside is even more ugly then the outside.So what most of you have is a ugly car that is faster then mine.Okay I will give you that.If you were a chevy person I assume you would own a vega with a big block and no paint.So just so we are clear,youre car is ugly but faster then my camaro.There is nothing you can do to make your car look better,mine looks good right from the factory.So keep making it faster maybe you will get so fast with so little money it wont be street legal anymore then we all wont have to look at on the road,because why?all together now...ITS UGLY.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Hey if its ok I would like to direct this knowledge in a more positive direction.I am goin to start apost on converting a smog 350 into the most HP I can get for the parts I own. So look for 350Vortec TPI post and help me out.

Sorry for that short intermission you may now return to your regular program


Footjoy

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Depends on a persons view. I personally think the Mustangs are ugly, camaro's are worse, but firebirds are pretty damn good looking. I've always thought thirdgen camaro's were the absolute most ugliest things in the planet, especially when someone put a big fugly cowl hood on them.

Now a buddy of mine, thinks Camaro's are beautiful, and firebirds are ugly. I have another friend with a supercharged cobra (that I built), that he thinks is prettier and faster than almost anyone on this board, and it's OBD-II and passes emissions, street legal, etc.

It's all a matter of opinion. Arguing over it is just plain silly. The original posters question was, why do people sink so much money into a car to run slow.

-- Joe

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

All I can say, is it is a passion. I sold a 2002 SS Camaro that was sick fast with just bolt ons. I then bought the 89 IROC. I had an 88 IROC when I was younger and that car just always stuck with me. Yes, I have to admit that I was disappointed jumping from the LS1 car back to the TPI car. But.....I consider it a challenge and I think it will be alot of fun. Plus, I have a 12 year old son who is going to learn alot from this, as well as allow us some quality time together.
To each his own, I like em' all. I have friends who love Fords, Mopars, even imports. I like to work and play with any of them.
Hell, that's what this hobby is all about.
Good luck to you and keep on sharing your experiences!!:nod:

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

HP isn't everything...Just ask the Mustang owners that try following a 3rd gen, in handling. Hands down, the 3rd gens win!

I have a die0hard Mustang friend, but he runs a 3rd gen in autocross. Why a 3rd gen, when he is a die-hard Mustang fan? He wants to win, and that isn't going to happen with a Mustang, when handling is involved.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

my point exactly.We drive and put money into our cars because we like them.The way they look,feel and drive.He comes here to ask why?Did someone here go to the mustang page and ask them why they put money into a car that is so ugly just to go fast?If so that would be dumb also.How about he comes back when he owns or wants a camaro or firebird,until then what a wasts of time.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

My goal is mid 11s with the motor i am building. Using worked 416s.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Lofty goal, any hints on how you hope to get there? You've perked up my ears.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Alot of work, only thing i am not doing myself is angle milling them.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

I'll be completely frank here...that car is ****ing ugly.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

haha, ok, I meant the motor. Cam? Intake? CR? I think it'd have to be completely wild to the point of wanting to re-ask yourself if 416 heads are worth reworking? Unless you're trying to prove a point?
I'd like to see your final flow results of the heads if you were going to flow test them. I never got around to flow testing my 416's because my machinist wouldn't stop laughing at me...

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Me Too!

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

I just want to see what i can get out of them. A more time than money type deal.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

You mean 1000-1500$?


And a set of Vortecs can be had for a very decent price. Flow tests have shown that they can hold their own against the aluminums after port jobs and so on. Downside is the fact that they are cast iron and heavier.

With aluminum heads, you really notice the damn near 100lbs shaven off the front of the car. Before my swap, my car had a slight aggressive stance, front a little lower than the back. Now, with the aluminum heads, the stance is dead even :mad:...looks like its time to get new front suspension :nod:

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

you can see it this summer. i believe the new transformers movie coming out has a fight scene between the '09 camaro and '06 mustang lol

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Tight lipped eh? Fair enough, I was in the same boat, time but no $$. PM me when you get it all together and see how it runs. I'm always curious how people do with ported 305 heads.

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

speaking of handling, those ford mn12's (89-98 thunderbird/cougar) are a good handling car, considering their weight, as they come in over 4000 lbs, but they surely are not fast by any means, i love driving my 93 tibird, and i got it for $75 bucks, and its even a 5.0 car

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

in case many of you didn't notice he rephrased the question as many of you didn't seem to get it. from the looks of it even after he rephrased you guys still aren't getting it and in typical style just start the flaming

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Not really, at least not when you make some attempt to compare comparable stuff… The ford factory headers don’t flow any better than the HO and TPI manifolds, probably worse.

The 305 isn’t the dog that most make it out to be, hell, most years a comparable 305 was only 5-15hp down (20 for a couple of years) from the 350… that’s not bad for loosing 50cid, and it was always very close to the 5.0. Of course, the peanut camed 305’s, L03’s and LG4’s were never intended to be the hot performers of the line, compare them to the assorted 4’s and 6’s (V and inline) that the mustang got and then the thing makes sense. They even get similar mileage and came with similar options.

The 8.8… well, that’s an advantage, but lets face it, as many of us out there that regularly break 7.5’s there are more of you that somehow manage not to, and hell, even those of us adept at breaking them still usually get a season or 2 of passes out of them before tosting them. OTOH, on the street I’d be very surprised if the percentage broken wasn’t about the same.

If you want to do this, then compare apples to apples, the HO 305/5 speed cars are comparable to the average GT, and the 350 cars are comparable to a 5.0 LX… All of which, on both sides of the fence were available with crappy and good gears from the factory. If you want to point out how slow your 2.73 or 2.77 geared TPI car was then compare it to 2.73 equipped GT…

Yep, every mustang is faster then every f-body
:rolleyes:

Work at a speed shop that does a lot of mustangs for a while and you’ll change your mind quickly once you get used to seeing throngs of high 14-16second mustang guys come in, a lot of which have no better luck with going fast then a lot of the people around here that complain about not being able to get out of the 14’s… Yes, there is a lot more media showing us fast(ish) mustangs, and the mustang aftermarket is much more well developed (a completely different issue), so there is almost a formula, get X+Y+Z and you’ll run ____.

See the above paragraph… this exists in the mustang world also to the same extent

There is one difference though. Once you get past the basic bolt ons the mustang guys tent to take the next step and even more advanced steps much easier then f-body guys because the EECIV ecm is more flexable and more willing to adapt to the changes then the assorted f-body ecm’s. It’s just a fact of life there. Put anything more than a stock cam in an f-body and you need to get a custom chip made. Same deal with a your basic blower package. That is not the case with a mustang, the ECM figures it out _well enough_ that you can make power and still have something driveable. Hell, f-body ECM’s are lost when you start getting into mods that require larger injectors, where on a mustang you just buy a matching MAF and again, you have something driveable, that runs good enough…

ditch the q-jet, manifold and distributor, get an older q-jet/holley/carter and matching manifold, older mechanical distributor and go blow through like you would with the mustang…

OK, lets’s compare them to your ported stock 5.0 heads (E7’s or something I’m guessing?) Stock they top out around 150-155cfm on the intake. Whoohooo! Mild port work, what did that get you, 170, 180cfm?

I have no clue what 781’s are, and the ‘018’s are junk, but grab a set of 416’s, 601’s, or one of a dozen other stock heads that can be had cheap and you’re starting with heads that flow 200-210cfm stock, a set of stock vortecs will flow 220-225cfm stock. Just slapping any one of these, with a reasonably matched cam, decent exhaust, gears, converter… (like I’m sure you did on your car) and you’ll destroy that mustang. Do some mild porting and really go to town.

You’re just not comparing apples to apples… essentially, they start pretty much even… the f-bodies start carrying a little extra weight compared to the mustangs, but have better power potential from the engines and handle much better.

Just because the percent of people doing it here is different then say at the corral, doesn’t mean that it’s any more possible or likely on either end, there are other 3rd gen guys around, just as there are a lot of show and shine or just plain beater mustangs around

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

:iagree:

So, are we talking trailer queens, or drive-to-the-track?

Let's see, was it 3 years ago? I think so. "Club Clash" race, the "fun run" series with various "F" and "M" brand clubs duking it out with the good-guy Bowties. Got paired up with a late fox-body that dialed about 2 seconds quicker than I (this is the '57 I'm in, understand). I hit the brakes about 100' from the finish line because the guy was still back behind the 1000' mark. As I walked through the pits to the grandstands afterwards to watch my buds race, I saw my last victim sitting in the passenger seat with a laptop and a frown. "What happened?" I ask. Said something about the tune not being right or something to that effect. Okay, whatever you say. Maybe you should try running with the fan belt and keep your voltage up. Whatever.

Next?

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Uhh, what? I think I may have been misquoted here, how did I say every mustang is faster than every F-body based on that quote? I said *some* mustang and camaro owners dump money into bling. Then add that cash into "performance parts", and say that a grand total of $6000 ($3000 of that might have been stereo) was spent on the car, and its still slow. Well yea, shiny valve covers, stereo, nice carpet, racing seats, cage, etc, don't make the car any faster.
Anyway, I think we've all gotten the point across eh?

Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
 

Sorry sonix, crappy editing on my part, it was sarcastic anyway...