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-   -   Harmonic balancer timing mark (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/550871-harmonic-balancer-timing-mark.html)

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 11:24 AM

Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Hi guys :

Weeks ago , me and a friend of mine , put the distributor on my iroc , it has a 305 engine , with tpi setup , we put the engine to the TDC , and dropped the distributor , with the rotor facing #1 cyl , now im ready to fire it up.
But , i noticed something strange , the harmonic balancer mark for setting the timing doesnt align with the 0 mark on the tab , its really far from the tab ,is that correct ?
It doesn´t look correct..... and it will give me problems when i set the base timing , no? , i have tried another timing tab , and no luck , i guessing that engine its a frankestein from a TBi and TPi car ,

are the harmonic balancers different on those engines ? ,
can anyone offer me a solution withouth changing the balancer ?


i need to move the car in two days , damn!

Thanks for the help guys

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 02:54 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
BUMP!!!

vetteoz 11-26-2009 04:55 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iroc_valencia (Post 4355281)
the harmonic balancer mark for setting the timing doesnt align with the 0 mark on the tab , its really far from the tab

When doesn't it line up?
while you have a timing light on it?

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 08:02 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vetteoz (Post 4355463)
When doesn't it line up?
while you have a timing light on it?

First , thanks for the reply.
I didn't fired it up yet , in a lack of this , i didn't used the timing light, we have turned the engine by hand , looking the rockers until the TDC.
The car , has the usual timing tab on the timing chain cover , and the cut on the balancer , didn't match with the 0 on the timing tab , this is confusing me , the cut on the balancer it's really far away from the tab , about a 1/8 of turn , and in that fact , for some reason , i was guessing that balancer wasn't correct.

Sorry about my poor english.

And thanks again for the reply.

Cheers

vetteoz 11-26-2009 08:34 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Are the balancer and timing tab from same engine?
GM changed the position of the timing mark way back.
Is the balancer good?
The outer ring can slip on the hub changing it's position
Really bad case shown

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/vetteoz/HB.jpg

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 08:43 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vetteoz (Post 4355595)
Are the balancer and timing tab from same engine?
GM changed the position of the timing mark way back.
Is the balancer good?
The outer ring can slip on the hub changing it's position
Really bad case shown

Hi ,

The old owner , swapped the engine , except the TPi setup , probably , the tab , and the balancer , aren't from the same engine , so , how i can rotate the outer ring of the balancer ? , probably , the correct way to do that , with accuracy , removing the timing chain cover , turning the crankshaft to the tdc and the rotating the balancer outer ring to it's position.
Thanks for the reply.

Cheers

3rd gen Will 11-26-2009 08:48 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
If it's super far off the balancer could be shot if not, are you sure you have a cover for the right size balancer? Stock 3rd gen balancers are 6 1/2" they make an 8" also and the tab is in a different spot on the cover and won't line up correctly.

vetteoz 11-26-2009 08:59 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iroc_valencia (Post 4355600)
rotating the balancer outer ring to it's position.

If you could rotate the outer ring . the balancer is dead and if you did it would not maintain it's position.

Just checked a couple of my engines.
The one with 8" balancer is TDC just past 12 o 'clock.
The TPI with 6 1/2" balancer is nearer 1 o'clock @TDC

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 08:59 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd gen Will (Post 4355603)
If it's super far off the balancer could be shot if not, are you sure you have a cover for the right size balancer? Stock 3rd gen balancers are 6 1/2" they make an 8" also and the tab is in a different spot on the cover and won't line up correctly.

Yes , the mark , it's really far , really , really.

How i can determine if the balancer it's shot ?

Thanks

cheers

ploegi 11-26-2009 09:02 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Check the woodruff key in the crank snout, might be missing.... If that is still there, have a close look at the balancer, if the elastomer between the hub and outer ring is missing, bunched up, generally looks crappy, probably time for a new one. Also, if you can move it at all, by hand......

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 09:09 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Thanks for the replies , tomorrow i'll take shots , and i'll post here and i'll check the balancer too , thanks for the help.
Why the people don't do the things right ? , now , i'm ****ed up , cause i'll have to buy a new balancer from the U.S.A. , and wait 7 days more.... , damn!

Thanks , tomorrow i'll continue this thread.

Cheers

one92rs 11-26-2009 09:13 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
what i would do is take a crescent wrench and adjust it to the balancer rubber size. put it on the balancer and see if the surround moves on the balancer center.

iroc_valencia 11-26-2009 10:41 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by one92rs (Post 4355629)
what i would do is take a crescent wrench and adjust it to the balancer rubber size. put it on the balancer and see if the surround moves on the balancer center.


hmmmm , one92rs , what a nice black camaro !!! , and nice quote!!! , are you talking about to check if the balancer was shot ? , maybe.
i'll check , tomorrow , more photos , but , i'll end changing the balancer , a friend of mine (chevrolet engine builder) , said the same as you guys "this balancer isn't from this engine , didn't match with the timing chain cover" , tomorrow i'll post pics.

Greets , and thanks for every reply

AlkyIROC 11-26-2009 11:14 PM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Don't bump a thread after a few hours. We don't live in front of our computers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetteoz (Post 4355595)
Is the balancer good?
The outer ring can slip on the hub changing it's position
Really bad case shown

I replaced one that looked like that today. I found it because the balancer was wobbling really bad. I saw it from the top of the engine and thought it was an externally balanced engine at first and I was seeing the cutout. With the use of a hoist, I had the balancer replaced in about 30 minutes :) Of course it was also in a G van.

I doubt you have a balancer problem. I'd see if the engine can fire up and turn the distributor until the timing is close enough. If you need to turn the distributor too far in either direction, you'll need to pull the distributor back out and move it one tooth. This also requires using a screwdriver to move the oil pump drive as well.

Any engine rebuild should always get a new balancer. They don't last forever, they're not expensive and people keep wanting to reuse old balancers (dampeners)

iroc_valencia 11-29-2009 12:42 AM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Thanks to everyone , i've checked the balancer , and it's good.
I've solved my problem with another timing tab (summit p/n: TRD-4960) , cause the previously timing tab installed on the timing chain cover didn't match with the harmonic balancer.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.


:thanks:



iroc_valencia 11-29-2009 12:44 AM

Re: Harmonic balancer timing mark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen 87 IROC (Post 4355722)
Don't bump a thread after a few hours. We don't live in front of our computers.

Sorry about that , but i was really confused.

Thanks for the help!


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