305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Hi,
have to seek every help what I can get.

So when engine is warm it stalls, idle drops near 500, sometimes it dies without warning at idle and driving. With enough speed you can only notice it becouse rpm drops and you feel it, at lower speeds it just dies but starts right away.
If I turn it off when it's warm, starting takes little longer and after it starts it raises and lowers rpms 400-1800 and sometimes dies but usually it settles. After that it stalls and dies when I try to put gear (either R/D). After few tries it usually works normal.
After it dies it starts normal and never had any problems with cold engine.
Doesn't give any error codes.

My best guess is that it doesn't get fuel or spark but now I'm considering new injectors.

I've added better grounding from battery to frame, frame to engine and ecm to frame. Egr is removed and prom is changed after that.
So far what's changed is ecm, maf, tps, iac, plugs+wires, distributor, ignition coil, icm, pick-up coil, fuel pump.
And also oxygen-sensor and 'starting box' above steering axle, don't know real name.

After these it runs better, lower consumption, better voltage but still with this problem.
Feels like you find a problem, solve it and notice there's another problem.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Welcome Aboard!

Even though you've changed the fuel pump (and hopefully both filters) what is the standing fuel pressure? Pressure at idle? Pressure 15 seconds after shut-down?

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

So I got this solved so I thought if someone else has same problem so I post it here.

It was distributor. I had everything new in it (pick-up coil, cap, rotor, ignition module) but it got worse enough to make contact-pins in cap go bad in a day. Finally I took it off and checked if it had backlash. Axle could move about 5mm (metric) vertical and 1-2mm horizontal.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

So this problem is back.

With new distributor it worked for little over a week (everything new, plug and play - type).
I checked the wirings from coil to icm, repaired one wire but didn't change things, ignition timing is set to 6 degrees (if I watch the mark I can see every now and then it misses the flash).

Any ideas now when it's narrowed to spark/ignition section?

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

I took video from rpm-cauge when the problem is occured.

http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/...E110329001.mp4

It doesn't matter if the motor is cold or warm, maybe little bit better when cold.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

LoL - I feel your pain man! I have an '89 with the exact same problems! I changed every part of the ignition thinking it was electrical - I finally broke down and took it to my buddy at the pro-shop and it turned out to be the injectors. Seems this was a very common problem with the 305TPI engines from this year! You can get a really nice set of injectors from Summit Racing - Accel part#ACC-150819 $285.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

i had the same problem and went the same route thinking distributor and even my ecm. turned out to be bad injectors on one side. ohmed them all out, 3 at 16, 2 at 14, and the last 3 were 4.5-7. same motor as you and it is a common problem. check out southbay. they are a member of this board and i hear great things about them. there prices seem to be pretty darn good as well. alot cheaper then summit or jegs. wish i had the cash on hand but i took a gamble with some used 92 injectors i had. all ohmed at 16 so crossing my fingers.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Thanks for advices, like I wrote in first message I was considering new injectors and ordered them (but in here where I live it takes while to get them) but now I have them.
I'm going to change them today, let's hope the best and keep fingers crossed!

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Good luck man. Hopefully them new injectors solve this issue for you. It certainly does sound like a fuel starvation issue.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Let us knOw how the injectors go! Another tpi out there is doing the exact same thing

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

New injectors, problem still exists. Car runs better and idle is better but still there's cut outs.
Maybe I should check the cap, rotor and icm... again.

What could cause icm go bad? Could it be in alternator?

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Today ses came up, got few codes.

42 which I believe is "The EST signal did not change when the ECM applied bypass voltage to the ignition module."
44 which would be "Oxygen sensor voltage was under 0.2 volts for 50 seconds of closed loop operation."

So that EST points to spark control module? If so is there way to test it or try to find new/used one?
44 means oxygen sensor (it's supposed to be new but I have a spare one) so I have to check the wiring and if those are ok I'll replace it.

Any advices is good at this point!

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Got aldl-cable and datamaster yesterday, knock-sensor jumps few times over 10 and I readed somewhere that it isn't normal.
If someone has time and understands something out of it, feel free and check the log (had to rename it to .txt, rename it to .uni to check it)

Attachment 219497

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

if it has a TDC sensor on that motor I would check that I had the same problem with a jeep 4ltr and went to the dealer to ask a mech and he told me TDC sensor I changed that and the problem went away but I am not sure if your motor has a TDC sensor

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

I have a similar problem when my 91 camaro rs. The only thing is is that my car won't even turn over. I replaced the starter and it was working for a little while and now it takes a little over an hour to wiggle around wires and hope it starts up. I don't have any clue what could b wrong with it. Help please

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Hi Allen Joseph and welcome. Please start your own thread as your issue is quite different from the issue this thread is focused on. Otherwise, we risk sidetracking the thread.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

porkkana, I am quite certain that your issue lies in the wiring to the distributor and/or coil. The code 44 is most likely a symptomatic code from the spark drop out. In the case of an ignition misfire, unburned fuel and air pass into the exhaust. The O2 sensor can't distinguish this uncombusted fuel and fresh air from lean exhaust, as both contain high amounts of unused oxygen.

Carefuuly check all wiring around the coil and distributor. Try unplugging the white Tach wire at its connector close to the coil and see if the trouble improves. It's not uncommon for the Tach circuit to develop an intermittent short to ground. Check the grounds at the rear of the pass side head. Don't overlook the possibility that you got a bad replacement distributor. It happens all too often.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Thanks for advices, I already checked tach circuit wire and it didn't change anything. Also I tried ignition timing wire and drive without it but still no change.
Wire what goes from icm to ignition coil is also rebuild. Old one (white wire, red was still in good shape) had only few hair attached and those broke when I bended it.
I renewed spark plugs and wires, icm and distriputor cap + rotor (now I have spare ones) but still nothing.

Interesting idea crossed my mind one day and unplugged vacuum line from fuel pressure regulator (had to try everything becouse driving came quite impossible, it stalled in every traffic light and if I didn't raise rpms to 1000 it died like it couldn't get fuel) and it worked little bit.
Now it doesn't die at every stop and you can keep it idle but still at WOT it misses sometimes (quite less what it used to).

With vacuum line in pressure regulator, fuel pressure is 42-44 at idle. When I give it gas it drops around 36-38 and when rpms lowers it goes up 42-44.
Without vacuum line, pressure is 49-51 and stays there even if I raise rpms.

At this moment I don't have chance to see what it is when driving, have to rebuild the meter so it has flexible tube so I can get it closer to windshield.
Also I have to messure voltage coming to fuel pump if it breaks sometimes and fuel pump doesn't get power.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Little update for this problem.

Changed oxygen-sensor, alternator and fuel regulator. Cleaned fuel-lines and tried to wiggle every wire what I could find but nothing. Still no change.

I tried to find grounding points what leads to ecm but couldn't find those, where does ground-wires go from ecm?

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

The ECM grounds are at the rear of the passenger side cylinder head.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

So i checked and cleaned ground-wires in behind both cylinder heads, tested 4 wires from icm to ecm, cleaned ecm connectors, measured pick up coil and ignition coil and tried to check ecm wiring harness if I could spot anything but still nothing.

After that I unplugged knock sensor connector, it didn't set any error codes but it started knock in high rpms but it didn't stall.
I thought I found the problem but it stalled few times when I was slowing down to stop.

What I know it should light up ses-light when you unplug knock sensor and I know that my ses-light works becouse it shows error code when I unplug maf. Could it be that my ecm is bad?
I thought that earlier and found used one but I cannot confirm that it works.

Have to try the old one tomorrow if it shows anything different than this one.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

If you confirm all circuits are okay, including power and ground to the ECM, you are at the point of replacing the ECM. I hope that you don't end up finding that it was something you overrlooked. But you've got to do something, even if it's wrong.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

are you running a catalytic converter? dumb question but my 89 integra was doing the same thing i took mine off to check and could see the size of a pencil through it. i straight piped it and problem solved.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Just read back a few posts. Your fuel pressure readings are out of whack. Fuel pressure, with vacuum to the regulator, should increase with the throttle opened. The higher reading without vacuum is normal. That's what you should be seeing on throttle snap. You may have a restricted filter, a weak pump, or a restriction at the pick up screen in the tank.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

I think it was either filter or regulator but now pressure is stable and increases when I open throttle.
But still it didn't solve this original problem.

Also I made new wires from battery to solenoid and alternator and cleaned wires which (there was 3 that was attached to solenoid with plus-wire from battery, where does they go?).

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Few days ago I disconnected maf, idle is quite rough and unstable but when I shift to D it runs quite stable and doesn't stall or do anything.
It lights up ses-light and what I've understood it goes to limb-mode but I can drive with it quite normal without shutting off or stall.
So it appears that some sensor or something causes this...

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Did few repairs to car and aside from that tested maf-wires.

Searched for limb-mode and found out that there's two modes, limb-home and fail-soft mode. What's the difference and which one I am causing disconnecting maf-connector?
I looked my test log and saw that maf-values changes quite linear with rpms and when 'so called stall' happened maf-value dropped with rpms, not anything unusual.

How can I cause this same mode without disconnecting maf-connector?

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

One problem solved, one to go.

Long story short, I changed wires from distriputor to ecm and one problem solved. Things got to that point that everytime i pushed the wires with my finger very gently it died (in distriputor).
Now it runs fine, idle is steady and it doesn't cut when I accelerate.

But there's still one problem. Every now and then it just dies. Not when in drive but when idle it just dies.
That reminds me that when I got cable to read this car I noticed that sometimes when it died when idle ecm just dissapeared.
So this might refer to wire from ignition switch to ecm or from battery to ecm.

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Re: 305TPI camaro -89 dies when warm, never when cold
 

Maddening. All kinds of gremlins seem to hit these cars. Are you getting any engine codes at all?