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making it run cooler Hey I'm looking for a fan motor that turns better than my sock lo3 fan. I have the stock single fan setup for a stock 89 rs. My 355 is staying close to 215 at the gooseneck beingt checked by infared thermometer and the gauge inside the car is showing ~260. Thought about doing a new fan motor,a 160 thermostat, and fiding a 150-165 fan switch. What fan motor works with our stock electrical stuff? Or needs very little mods? Where can I find a low temp fan switch and how low can I go? I have no emissions equipment |
Re: making it run cooler Dunno about upgrading the motor in the stock single fan. Biggest problem in my opinion is that it simply doesn't cover enough of the radiator's surface area and has no shroud. A pair of good quality aftermarket fans or the internet-famous "Ford Taurus" fan setup would probably work heaps better than upgrading the sad factory single fan. The fan switch in your car is screwed into the pass. side cylinder head between the #6 and #8 spark plugs. You can buy a lower temp switch just about anywhere, or simply supply a ground to that wire and they will run. I traced that wire back up to the fan relay up near the power brake booster and ran a short jumper to ground with an in-line fuse holder in it. That extra ground/relay trigger path was IN ADDITION TO the factory wire still going to the fan switch, no in replacement of it. In the winter, I let the fan operate as normal. When weather got warm I put a little 1A fues in the in-line fuse holder and the fan ran continuously. Obviously, you could do the same running it through a switch that you mount somewhere in the car. Gives you the option of "manual fan on" or "automatic, like stock" modes. |
Re: making it run cooler so the ford Taurus fans are a good step up. are they a direct bolt up. I guess its pretty easy to wire them to runn at the same time? what year model? how many cu.ft./min. of air and what's the best fan/shroud is out there for the money? thx a lot. |
Re: making it run cooler
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5574071)
so the ford Taurus fans are a good step up. are they a direct bolt up. I guess its pretty easy to wire them to runn at the same time? what year model? how many cu.ft./min. of air and what's the best fan/shroud is out there for the money? thx a lot. Fan Specs: RF24 Thunderbird LX and a Cougar RX7 94-97 the motor in this fan only fits this fan no other models it has 3 terminals and is a 2 speed fan with low being 1350 RPM and high being 1780 RPM. The CFM is unknown. It measures 18.5 x 24 x 5.5 deep. The Ford part number was F4SH8C607AA it is now F4SZ8C607D. RF64 93-96 Lincoln Mark VIII F3LY8C607A 93-96 fan spins 1100 RPM on Low and 1850 on High. 97's Lincoln Mark VIII F7LZ8C607AB 98's Lincoln Mark VIII F8LZ8C607AA, This one crosses back as a replacement for the F8LH8C607AA so it may be a single speed. 97-98 fan spins 1800 RPM on Low and 2225 on High. someone help me out because these things can be had on ebay for almost nothing. my motor is 350 bored 40over, upgraded vortec heads, stock water pump, stock radiator, and will have 160 stat, and 171 fan switch. |
Re: making it run cooler I did in fact buy the mark 8 fan. and was prepared to make the mods to the electrical system to make it work but it looks like I won't have to do that. Let me tell you what I have discovered. 1. My lower water hose would collapse whenever I hit the throttle so I wnet to autozone and bought a hose made for a 89 Camaro not just a cheap trim to fit hose. it was a bit stiffer. 2. I bought a 176 degree on 160 off fan switch rom summit and replaced the stock one. 3. I checked and verified that my radiator cap was good 4. my so-called mechanic "gutted" my thermostat meaning that he cut it up and the only part that was in the housing was the dome (top of the tstat) so I bought a 160 degree 5. also changed the oil and filter and filled the filter with oil b4 putting it back on. 6. filled the rad. with ANITFREEZE instead of the almost water that he put in there or at least it looked like water. I fired it up and ooohhh! it did not get over 170 on the STOCK gauge. My so-called mechanic told me that my gauge was very inaccurate when it showed the temp going upwards of 260 degrees and that I would need to get a new one. (it only went that high after sitting in traffic for a while 5-8min of stop light. during driving it showed 220 on the stat housing the infared showed <=215 and fan would come on.) which could be the only reason the motor didn't detonate. I will never recommend him to another person! read further and you'll see why i'm glad that the fan didn't go out b4 b/c of the bearings. Now, the fan comes on and did not go back off so I think I will have to buy a new fan motor because I hear the bearings in this one. meaning it might not be turning at full speed but after 30min. of idle it did not go past 170. I put a infared therm. on the tstat housing the highest it went was 163. I put it on the rad. just under the cap and was getting 138-143. on the block just under where the head and the WP bolt up and got 145. on the bottom rad. hose 114. and the gauge in the car like I said never over 170. I went to Smithfield nc in stop and go traffic and it did get to about 190-200 (hard to tell where the needle was but was under the 220 mark) and back down again once we got moving and stayed down. I hit the throttle and my hose doesn't collapse anymore. I think i'm good! so I don't know what to do with the perfectly good mark 8 fan I just ordered. oh! one last thing I need the oem bolts to the air dam I replaced my front spoiler with an aftermarket one and misplaced all of the bolts I don't even know if it will bolt up to this spoiler but I will be finding out b/c that willhelp me with low speed cooling. please help! |
Re: making it run cooler
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5578514)
so I bought a 160 degree
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5578514)
My so-called mechanic told me that my gauge was very inaccurate when it showed the temp going upwards of 260 degrees ..the infared showed <=215 ! Ever considered that due to your other coolant system problems ( like the collapsed hose :doh: ) that the engine temp MIGHT have actually been much higher ; given your IR was measuring the temp at a location known to be cooler than the heads where the gauge sender unit is located ( apples with apples ) and that the stock gauge is not accurate at higher temps ?
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5578514)
on the tstat housing the highest it went was 163. I put it on the rad. and was getting 138-143. on the block and got 145. on the bottom rad. hose 114. and the gauge in the car like I said never over 170.
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5578514)
the fan comes on and did not go back off so I think I will have to buy a new fan motor ! The only way the fan motor can keep running is if it is still getting 12 V power from somewhere .................................Installing a new motor won't solve that problem |
Re: making it run cooler You mentioned the fan switch is 176 on, 160 off. The thermostat is a 160. The fan comes on when it reaches 176. This cools the coolant back down, but as it approaches 160, the thermostat starts to close, so it never cools enough to turn the fan off. You need a different fan switch with a higher turn-off temperature if you want to fix that. Also, a colder temperature is harder to maintain, so unless the fan is a beast it might struggle to reach 160 in warm weather even if there was no thermostat at all. |
Re: making it run cooler 1. I thought that with no stat the car should run cooler but since the stat makes no difference once opened the car seems to be running cooler with a stat in it as stated above the stat forces the car to warm up fasster. Why couldn't my mech. tell me this. 2. the hose did not collapse at idle only at very strong revs so yeah going down the highway at 70 might qualify. car read about 220 or a little under at 70mph and then temp went up at slow speeds 10-20mph. sitting in drive thru at idle. things like that 3. your right fan is running but is it turning at its full potential? and remember I said I heard the bearings the fan motor is probably 20+ years old so I will feel safer with a new one 4. If running to cold during the summer is between 160-200 degrees then I will just have to change the stat In the winter when it really gets cold but for now I was working on the principal that "heat kills" and inaccurate gauge or not I'm not willing to take that chance. think about it what if the gauge is inaccurate and it is showing cooler than what the motor really is - at high temps. 5. as for the fan running all the time I have a remedy for that. I will be getting a new motor (younger) one that doesn't have the bearings screaming in it. and I still have the mark 8 fan that I ordered and we know those things take some electrical modding but cool like a son of gun. Or I wait until the winter and the fan prolly won't even come on. and with a new motor it won't burn up. I drive this car everyday right now b/c I'm trying to get all this stuff figured out but after I get the motor and body work done it will be more of a weekend cruiser I only have about 1200miles on the motor now. I just had a guy telling me that the reason the motor wasn't staying cool was because the rad. was too small. I know that some of you have these monster big blocks or even beastly small blocks but mine is a very mild 350 40over with just vortec heads. I have new stock radiator and now I know that even if I had a stock fan switch, and stat that I still shouldn't have to buy one of those $400 radiators and all kinds of other specially made things. |
Re: making it run cooler
Originally Posted by budget builder
(Post 5579225)
I thought that with no stat the car should run cooler but since the stat makes no difference once opened . Running no stat can lead to overheating because the fast moving coolant doesn't have time to loose heat Coolant basics. You want the engine to heat up to it's operating temp as fast as possible ; less engine wear and better fuel economy. A min engine temp is required to get the oil hot enough to burn off condensation otherwise your engine fills with sludge, not to mention extra engine wear with a cooler than optimum engine These engines were designed by the factory to run a lot hotter than old skool engines |
Re: making it run cooler Thk u. please forgive if i'm a little ignorant to how all of this works I am a complete novice and don't mean to come off sounding like a smart butt. The engine is a 68 350 v8 the temp is staying about 170-200 and typical driving distance is about 10-50 miles there is an advantage to living way out in the country. and the no stat thing was my mech. idea I didn't like it to start off with |
Re: making it run cooler I'm having a hard time finding out exactly what size the bolts are for the air dam. or at least i'm calling it the air dam. its the wwide flat piece of plastic that attaches directly to the front spoiler to a piece of metal in front of the radiator. and that has four or five cutout places in it that the bolts go in. and i'm rocking a aftermarket 91-92 spoiler that does not have the holes for this stock piece of plastic. but I guess I can drill those. its easy to se that piece is supposed to block air from getting behind the nose of the bumper and funnel it to the (hard-straight hanging air dam) so it can go in the front of the radiator I take it this is most beneficial at low speeds. when I took it loose from the very front spoiler to change it. the thing looked like a big snow plow in front of the car. I should have attached it right then and there but didn't and now have to replace the bolts. |
Re: making it run cooler
Originally Posted by vetteoz
(Post 5579694)
Running no stat can lead to overheating because the fast moving coolant doesn't have time to loose heat |
Re: making it run cooler Uh... Its pretty well documented that running no thermostat can cause an engine to run hotter. Even race car engines that run no thermostat use a coolant restrictor to slow the coolant flow down. |
Re: making it run cooler you are wrong |
Re: making it run cooler Nice try, but before you call someone out with no evidence, you should do a little homework. www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/900/925/925-8229.pdf http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/engine_cool.html http://www.impulsengine.com/kits/coo...strictor.shtml It took me all of 2 minutes to find these. Notice how they all say they slow the coolant flow enough so the coolant can remain in the rad long enough to get cooled down. |
Re: making it run cooler It's still not true. They just make up ignorant statements so fools will buy it. If it was true, then get the biggest pulley you can find for your water pump. Coolant flow will be very slow, the coolant leaving the radiator should be nice and cool, and the coolant leaving the engine will be boiling hot. Give it a try. Just don't say I didn't warn you. |
Re: making it run cooler I guess all the drivers at the local race track that run them with good results are wrong. I guess you have all the answers. You post no proof of your statements, I post proof, and you still argue. Who is ignorant? You will have to argue with someone else, I'm done wasting my time. |
Re: making it run cooler I have a 355 with the stock fan and it runs at 160 all day, even in this heat. I have a 195 T-stat and I can see the gauge climb to 200 every morning and then drop down to 160-165. I use a stock replacement 3 row radiator. It's a Modine 438918 if anyone is curious. Modine doesnt make them anymore but I remember that part number cross referencing with a few other manufacturers, likely hte exact same part since I dont think Modine is around anymore. http://www.discountautoparts.com/ite...-RAD&weight=30 Im not saying it will fix your problem, but I'm running around 300hp and mine runs super cool all the time with the stock single fan. I dont think the fan is the problem. |
Re: making it run cooler . |
Re: making it run cooler 1 Attachment(s) Not sure if this will help or not (maybe you can help me out), but the guy that just rebuilt the engine (L98 350) in my 89 Formula suggested we install this http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....sort~1~cadefib So I ordered the part and was going to install (I'm not very mechanically inclined) but I can follow instructions. The install instructions are attached. So which does my car have a) Electric Cooling Fan Controlled by a Fan Control Switch or b) Electric Cooling Fan(s) Controlled by the ECM/PCM (Computer)? |
Re: making it run cooler I don't know about the formula but my 89 maro had a fan switch and was not controlled by the computer. now I got my timing dialed in at 12btdc and it started running a lot better (cooler). I wanted to istall the mark8 fan for added insurance. so far so good with the stock setup. so I have the 166 switch, the 160 stat, the stock fan, and stock rad.and last I checked no collapsing hose. I am still concerned aboiut not having the part of the air dam installed. the part in front of the rad. that looks like a big snow plow when it is disconnected. its held in place with 4bolts holding it to the fdront chin spoiler and 4-5 bolts holding it to the rad. mount. please help if you know what i'm talking about post pics so we can make sure and let me know what size bolts it takes please |
Re: making it run cooler A 160 stat will work just fine. You only need it hot enough to let the oil get hot (to burn off moisture and other contaminants). It's about engine wear, and 160 is plenty high to prevent premature engine wear. It will heat up EXACTLY as fast as a 180* or 195* stat, it will just level off at a lower temp. That's all. Which should be obvious when you consider it's compltely closed until it hits its opening temp. Don't run with no stat. Animated disagreement, above laid to the side for now, you want to run a stat in any car that is street driven. Period. As for your shiny-new fan assembly, why not install it? If you're creeping up to about 200* with a 160* stat, you're lacking airflow in all likelyhood (for sure if it happens while you're idling or slogging along in stop-and-go traffic). Perhaps your old fan is a bit weak, but in reality, they were marginal at best, even when new, as I said way up at the top of this thread. All my cars run within 10* of stat opening temp, no matter how hot the day. Assuming the radiator is of adequate size (and not damaged or clogged up internally), the fan determines if you have enough airflow through it to hold a temp at idle and low speeds. Good catch on the lower rad hose, BTW. I'm guessing somebody tipped you off to check for that (almost nobody thinks of that on their own). And it's really rare these days. In the old days there was a big, long metal spring inside the lower hose to prevent collapse. Sometimes mechanics (inexperienced ones) would neglect to swap it over into the new hose before installing it- causing the problem you experienced. Nowadays, it's exceedingly rare. They just build the lower hose with a much more rigid structure. No anti-collapse spring required with most modern lower hoses. So you caught a real "rarie" there- you can tell your grandkids about it! |
Re: making it run cooler Don't run with no stat. Animated disagreement, above laid to the side for now, you want to run a stat in any car that is street driven. Period yeah that was my so called mechanic that did that he was supposed to be finding out why I was losing water as if I had the wrong water pump and his solution was to gut my tstat and all for the low low price of $600 I am still concerned about not having the part of the air dam installed. the part in front of the rad. that looks like a big snow plow when it is disconnected. its held in place with 4bolts holding it to the front chin spoiler and 4-5 bolts holding it to the rad. mount. |
Re: making it run cooler I know what part you are talking about and you don't need it. I'd keep it you had a firebird or if your Camaro had foglights, but my Camaro doesn't have it and the temp never goes over 190, which is when my fan comes on. I would certainly run a 160 stat (180 in winter). But if you think the stat isn't opening, you can remove it and under no circumstances will the engine run hotter than if you had it installed. It will just take much longer to warm up. Also check to see if the cooling system has pressure. After the engine gets hot, squeeze the upper radiator hose. It should be tight. Increased pressure will cool better but it will also increase the chances of leaks. I don't like leaks so I only run a 10psi radiator cap, which is a little less pressure than stock. |
Re: making it run cooler 3 Attachment(s) Ok I thank u, I want to install some fog lights so I guess I this part tries to keep rock from the lights |
Re: making it run cooler That part just helps guide the air into the radiator. Adding fog lights blocks the front air inlets and means all of the air will have to come from below to get to the radiator. |
Re: making it run cooler There are so many possibilities. System has to be pressurized. (CAP and GASKETS) Fans Must Work. Coolant Must Circulate. (PUMP and RADIATOR) Go through each item your self using the factory service guide or your Chilton Book. Make a check list and use the flow charts. Become intimate with your ride. |
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