Differential question
 

Hello all,

I just looked under my car (1990 gta), and notice that somehow I blew out my pinion seal and fluid is coming out.
I took notice as to the markings on the case gm#22522676, 10 bolt rear end.
Can someone tell me what gears I have in there?
I need this information in order to get the right seal for it.
Also, do I need shims to replace?????

Would like to do this before the weekend. Don't feel comfortable driving knowing my rear end is leaking and don't know how long it has been leaking.

Thanks.


Craig

Re: Differential question
 

Check the 10-Bolt FAQ in the stickies.

JamesC

Re: Differential question
 

That part # you posted is the casting # for the big cast center chunk of the housing. Doesn't tell a thing about what's inside.

You have 7.5"/7.625" 10-bolt gears in there.

No you don't need to know what gears you have to get the right seal. There's only one seal part # that fits all 7.xxx" 10-bolts from 1980 to the present, regardless of gears. If they can't look it up without a ratio, make one up; won't matter what you tell em, it'll return the same seal #.

The seal doesn't just "somehow" "blow out". Unfortunately about 99.9999% of the time, the reason the seal leaks is because the bearings are bad; and the other .0001%, it just needs new bearings.

It would probably be possible to replace the bearings and re-use the original shims, but since the OE carrier shims are cast iron and probably are wore out anyway, not a good idea. But since shims come in the "kit" that's the easiest way to get the bearings, it's mostly a non-issue.

It's also highly likely that you have at least one bad axle, since the inner race of the axle bearing is the axle itself. When you slide em out, look closely at that part of of them; should be a smooth, straight, cylindrical section of it, about 2" long, absolutely uniformly machined all the way along. If the place where the bearings run is ANY different than the rest, it's trashed. Get a set of these. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sag-ev10-4

If I was the guessing kind, I'd guess you probably have 3.23 gears; but the only way to know is to look. Same for your rear as everybody else's.

Re: Differential question
 

Thanks for the info. Great sticky (totally missed that one).


craig

Re: Differential question
 

If that sounds like alot of work then just get a whole new rear w/ better everything, if your uncomfortable setting one up yourself and don't want to spend the coin having someone else do it. It's about the same price or less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/82-02-Camaro...ce86ea&vxp=mtr

Re: Differential question
 

Also check the TQ on the 2 tq mounting bolts. Sometimes they get over torqued, cause a rear case/bearing out of round condition and a pinion seal leak. I even think there was a GM service bulletin about it.

Re: Differential question
 

Ok so after I pay bills, I am ready to do this.
Replaced the seal and pinion bearing.
While I am at I was going to put a new u-joint on it.
Any idea of finding out what kind of driveshaft is in it? Aluminum or steel?

Also, TQ? Referring to the torque converter?
And if so, is that easy to get to to check?


Craig

Re: Differential question
 

If you are going to replace the pinion bearing then you are going to have to replace the crush spacer and set the bearing preload again. I never recommend replacing one pinion bearing. Both pinion bearings should be replaced together because the bearing preload is different for new and used bearings. You also must replace the bearing races.

Re: Differential question
 

Can I just replace the seal and that would be ok for a while???
Due to time restrictions and this being my daily driver I can't not be mobile
while I do this.
Don't really know anyone where I live to help me and I have never done this before.




Craig

Re: Differential question
 

Prolly not... kinda hard for the seal to seal to something that's flopping around wildly instead of running true and smooth.

But I suppose you could try; won't make anything very much worse than it already is. If you get it put back together right, that is.

Re: Differential question
 

big gear head " If you are going to replace the pinion bearing then you are going to have to replace the crush spacer and set the bearing preload again. I never recommend replacing one pinion bearing. Both pinion bearings should be replaced together because the bearing preload is different for new and used bearings. You also must replace the bearing races"


How do you and how involved is setting the preload and the bearing races?
I will wait for a response but it sounds like it would be easier to just try and find a used one and take my chances with a swap.

Craig

Re: Differential question
 

You have to completely disassemble the rear end to do this. You have to remove the pinion and drive the bearing races out of the housing. The inner bearing is pressed on the pinion, so it needs to be pressed off and the new one pressed on. Then you install the pinion with new seal and crush spacer and use a new pinion nut. You have to tighten the pinion nut until it compresses the spacer enough to load the bearings. You measure the turning resistance and continue compressing the spacer until you have it set correctly.

Re: Differential question
 

So in other words, it would be easier to find a used one, do a swap and hope
it doesn't take a crap on me any time soon.

Re: Differential question
 

Keeping the swap theroy in mind, I had another question.
I did a little research on the boards (briefly, on a work computer), and I
think I read that the '93 and up rear axles will mount up to the 3rd gen
cars with the "hiccup" that the tires will stick out about 2".
I wanted to know if that is true???
Reason being is that 3rd gens around here are scarce and there is a u-pull it
a few miles from my house with a bunch of 93-02 firebirds and camaros.
If this is doable, what do I need to look for for a replacement rear axle?
I know it needs to have disc brakes but does it matter if it comes from a 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder???


Craig

PS Thanks for the info/help thus far. :)

Re: Differential question
 

Yes, the bolt in but are wider.

The RPO tag will tell you what the gear ratio is and if it has the limited slip differential (posi) or not. The tag should be on the bottom of the console lid or behind the spare tire cover. G80 is the code for the LSD. The LT1 cars had the Auburn differential and the LS1 cars had the Torsen. Most or all of the V6 cars had standard differentials.

Re: Differential question
 

:huh: Damn, how did this problem ever get to the point of having to replace both pinion bearings, crush sleeve, etc.?? Pinion seals go bad all the time w/o having bad pinion bearings. The seals do wear as they age, and will eventually start to leak, even if the pinion bearings are still fine. The rearend under mine had a leaky pinion seal about 6 or 7 years ago, and all I did was carefully mark the pinion nut in relation to the pinion itself (in other words, use a chisel or dremel disc to put a line in the nut and pinion shaft) and also count how many threads are sticking out of the end of the pinion nut. Undo the nut, take off the pinion yoke, and pry the seal out. Make sure to put a thin layer of gear oil on the lip of the new seal before driving it in. Btw, a small piece of exhaust pipe from the parts store makes a great seal driver. Once the new seal is driven in, put the yoke back on, then the flat washer and pinion nut, then just re-tighten it right back to where the notch you made lines up again with the same number of pinion shaft threads sticking out of the nut, and it's a done deal. I've replaced the pinion seal of numerous rearends this way over the years, and it usually goes w/o a hitch. That's how I did the seal on the rear I have under the car now, and it hasn't leaked a drop yet. Oh yeah, almost forgot, make sure to put some red (high-strength) loctite on the pinion shaft threads before putting the nut back on.

Re: Differential question
 

In post number 7 he said that he was going to replace a pinion bearing. That's how it got to this point.

Re: Differential question
 

When things like this happen, I always think "worst case scenario".
I don't know for a fact that the bearing is bad, I was just thinking ahead.
I HOPE AND PRAY that I can get away with just replacing the seal.
I''ll know in a couple of weeks when I actually look in there to see what's going on. I still might just replaced the u-joint with one that has a grease fitting on it.
But it is reassuring that this is fairly common.
I don't drive like a maniac (barely go over 60 mph). I baby this car as much as possible. Now the person whom owned this before me (4 years ago), wasn't
so concerned with making the car last.


Craig

Re: Differential question
 

Yeah, sorry, didn't realize the pinion bearing was going to be replaced. But yeah, if it's strictly a matter of replacing the seal only, it's not too hard of a job at all. As long as you mark the EXACT postion that the pinion nut is in before removing it, and re-tighten it back to the same spot, it's pretty simple. And don't forget to smear a little gear lube on the lip of the new seal before installing it. Putting the seal in dry can cause the rubber lip to get burned by the yoke, which will cause it to fail early all over again.

Re: Differential question
 

UPDATE!

I replaced the seal only last wednsday, it took all of about an hour. I did forget to put loctite on the nut before I put it back on.
I hope I don't have to be alarmed about that.
I am going to do a spot check this week to make sure it isn't still leaking.

Thanks for the help guys!!!




Craig

Re: Differential question
 

Did you use a new pinion nut? If you used the old nut and no Locktite then the nut will be more likely to back off later. I've seen them back off even when a new nut was used with Locktite. Just keep an eye on it.

Re: Differential question
 

No new nut available at the time.
That's the other reason I am going to look at it again. I will put the red loctite
on when I go back to check for leaks.

Re: Differential question
 

Yeah, whether the the nut is new or used, as long as you put some RED loctite on the pinion threads before re-installing the nut, it should stay nice and tight, without backing off. Even though most people recommend a new pinion nut, I've never had a problem re-using the original nut as long as you use loctite on it.

Re: Differential question
 

Hey all. Can someone tell me why my Torsen series 3 will not fit in my 92 camaro 10 bolt 7.5?

Re: Differential question
 

Best to start a new thread...

In what way will it not fit?

Re: Differential question
 

I took it to a mech. that said it was so very slightly too long from bearing to bearing, I personally feel he just didn't know what he was doing. I've checked all the specs and from the research, it should fit but I do not have the knowledge to know what to do to install it. If anyone can tell me for sure it will fit I will take it to a pro shop to have it installed. Thanks

Re: Differential question
 

Provided the side bearings are pressed all the way on each side of the carrier, you should have plenty of room, including room for the required shims on each side. If he was trying to put it in there with your original, cast iron shims on each side, that could be the problem. Check and make sure both bearings are pressed to where they're fully seated on the differential bearing cones, then purchase an aftermarket differential shim assortment for the 7.5" GM 10 bolt. If it won't fit after this, then you either have a messed up housing or a messed up Torsen carrier.

Re: Differential question
 

Thank You Pat, I have heard nothing but good news in all the forums. I gave him a pretty good piece of my mind because I was at lease 99% sure it would fit too. He deffinately lost me as a customer. I am gratefull on how helpful you guys are in here. Thanks.

Re: Differential question
 

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Re: Differential question
 

Well after replacing the seal a second time (didn't remove the diff cover
and let all the fluid drain out so it leaked from the center of the seal),
I am now getting a vibration at 30 mph to 45 mph.
Pretty much up to 30 mph and after 50 mph, the vibration goes away.
Keep in mind, brand new tire and balance in december.
Did I not torque the nut down enough, or did I torque it too much?
If anything, I may not have torqued it enough. I did mark the nut in its
original position when I did it both times.
Maybe the u-joint???????????? It seemed to be ok, but I don't know if it
was time to replace that.
Did I pull out the driveshaft too much from where it meets the tranny or did
I push it in too much?
So confused!! Need you guys to assist me in the again.

Sorry.