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Look inside my T-5 (pics) again 3 Attachment(s) I bought another used '89 Iroc T-5 and wanted to get some advice on how it looks inside. I can see "patterns" on the faces of the gears - not sure if that is normal wear or not. What are your opinions on how it looks?: Attachment 352253 Attachment 352254 Attachment 352255 |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Looks better than the last one that you bought. This one is a WC T5. Syncronizer teeth look pretty good. I don't think it has been abused. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again It has "abuse wear"... Look at the clutch gear in the first pic; starting at the top, the 3rd through 6th teeth, around the gear; you can see where the tip of the countergear teeth has worn a groove in the clutch gear teeth, down deep. You can see the corresponding wear on the 1st through 3rd of those, starting where it meets the clutch gear (the bottom-most visible ones) and going upwards. It's tough to find good V8 T-5s. This one's reverse is also more chewed up than that other one. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 5519319)
It has "abuse wear"... Look at the clutch gear in the first pic; starting at the top, the 3rd through 6th teeth, around the gear; you can see where the tip of the countergear teeth has worn a groove in the clutch gear teeth, down deep. You can see the corresponding wear on the 1st through 3rd of those, starting where it meets the clutch gear (the bottom-most visible ones) and going upwards. It's tough to find good V8 T-5s. This one's reverse is also more chewed up than that other one. Can this one be rebuilt? |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Just looks like the way the light is reflecting on the teeth to me, but it could be worn. Reverse is worn because someone didn't know to put it in 1st befoe going to reverse. Yes, it can be rebuilt. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again I'd be most worried about the condition of the case at the countershaft front bearing. The rest of that is pretty reasonable for wear. Because I'd do the work myself, I'd run it, see how it is and then rebuild it if I felt like it needed it. Yes that one is rebuildable. If you want to see one that was behind a 408 for a few years, I might get inspired enough to post pictures. :) |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Thanks for the replies. I was thinking about just running it as is but its nice to have experienced eyes look at it first. I wonder if this one has been rebuilt before because the teeth look so good.? Last question (well maybe) - Can you decide on whether or not a T-5 needs rebuilding by looking at it with the cover off? .. Or is it really better to tear it down and inspect it part by part? I am kinda torn between rebuilding it or leaving it alone - but if it looks good visually I'd rather not take the rebuild plunge as well :) |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Still tryin to decide if I should rebuild this T-5. I checked the end play on the output shaft and it was a lot - like 30 thousands..There was only 1 shim in the front bearing retainer. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Usually there is only one shim. How did the bearing look? |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Check the shift forks. The 3/4 one is usually cracked. Mine was. The one in the "how to rebuild a t5" video was too. Guy says its common. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Shim that out to 3 thousandths pre-load and drive it. Subtle drivability issues are best determined on the road. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again 2 Attachment(s) Do the shims normally have a number on them (for thickness) ? Mine doesn't.. The bearing looks ok to me: Attachment 352120 3-4 Shift Fork does have a gouge in it: Attachment 352121 |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again You need a slide caliper or micrometer to measure each. Come to think of it, I haven't done a T5 in a while; ask whomever you order your shims from (thegearbox.org is good) if the 3 thousands preload is valid for the loose rollers or for the tapered cone bearing in the T5-Z and tell them what you're working with has the loose rollers. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again I always used to use about .006" preload on the countergear and about .005" on the clutch gear in those, before I wised up and quit hallucinating that anything I could possibly do would make any difference to the ultimate outcome. I also always Heli-Coiled all the clutch gear retainer bolt holes (and all the ext hsg and cover bolt holes as well, if any of them was damaged)... easy enough to see why in that last pic. "Rebuilding" a manual trans consists of taking it COMPLETELY apart, cleaning it all up with solvent and/or whatever else it takes, and re-assembling it with all-new wear parts. Those parts are the bearings, selective-fit snap rings, gaskets (the T-5 uses the tubular style gasket exclusively), and thrust washers. Sometimes the blocker rings as well. It DOES NOT include replacing gears or shafts or any other hard parts, by default. For that reason, "rebuilding" one of those does not fix the wore-out gears. You have to NOT ONLY "rebuild" it, BUT ALSO buy those super-$$$$ parts and replace them. Problem is, EVERY ONE seems to need a clutch gear and countergear, precisely as this one here does; and since they're essentially impossible to find used and still useable, that costs more than the trans core and the "rebuild" "kit", COMBINED. Problem then is, if the case is stretched, NO AMOUNT of replacing the gears or "rebuilding", will EVER restore it. The gears will mis-align FOREVER and destroy each other. There is nothing you can do about it, besides replace the case. And those are just as hard to find good used ones, maybe even harder. Grinding the trans into reverse, like this one has had done, fills the fluid with metal chips. Those cause wear on every other part in the whole thing. When buying one, that's the first thing to look at, is whether it has that particular form of destruction applied to it. Although, in the case of this one, someone has recently been inside it, and all the metal chips are cleaned out; there's no guarantee that the reverse gear and the others even came out of the same transmission. At this point, if I was "rebuilding" that one, I'd finish tearing it down; clean up all the parts by washing in solvent; press the bearings off the clutch gear, countergear, and mainshaft; replace all of the soft parts, but re-use the hard ones; and re-shim it to the above specs. Even though the 2 main gears aren't "perfect", they're not too bad; even if they WERE "perfect", it wouldn't be long before they looked exactly like those. Then I'd start gathering up T-56 swap parts. Which in fact, is what I eventually did to my own car, after a couple dozen times "rebuilding" T-5s, replacing gears, etc. It took A LONG TIME for (a) me to get it through my thick skull that what I was doing was a waste of time effort and money, (b) the T-56 to be invented, and (c) for them to become available in junkyards out of totaled cars. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 5520931)
Problem is, EVERY ONE seems to need a clutch gear and countergear, precisely as this one here does; and since they're essentially impossible to find used and still useable, that costs more than the trans core and the "rebuild" "kit", COMBINED. Problem then is, if the case is stretched, NO AMOUNT of replacing the gears or "rebuilding", will EVER restore it. The gears will mis-align FOREVER and destroy each other. There is nothing you can do about it, besides replace the case. And those are just as hard to find good used ones, maybe even harder. . Also, how can you tell if the case is stretched? thanks |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Yes, counter gear and cluster gear are the same thing. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again http://www.anaheimgear.com/ I just had to rebuild my T5 due to a shattered 1-2 shift fork. Broke it all the way down to replace synchronizers, seals, and bearings just to give it that new feeling. Found a deep gouge in the bearing surface of the cluster gear. Anaheim gear was very helpful and speedy when ordering my gear. New part, good price. I'd check them out for sure. I got mine for around $150ish shipped. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again You guys are scaring me. On my '89 I always get a forward gear before going into reverse. However, on a couple of occasions, driving in a hypnotic state, I shifted the T5 into it's phantom 6th gear, (my daily is a 6 speed), which would reside in the same position as reverse. Crunch. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again It's not that big of a deal. There is a big magnet in the bottom of the case that catches most of the metal in the oil. |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again
Originally Posted by jmd
(Post 5519396)
Yes that one is rebuildable. If you want to see one that was behind a 408 for a few years, I might get inspired enough to post pictures. :) http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/515/0404132317a.jpg http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/208/0404132317b.jpg http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/850/0404132317c.jpg http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/706/0404132317d.jpg http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/209/0404132317e.jpg |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Would you guys mind looking at my original pics at the beginning and see you think that the Synchros are worn? I didn't think that they were but the guy I brought my T5 for rebuild is calling for replacements. thanks much |
Re: Look inside my T-5 (pics) again Your original pics only show the dog teeth on the gears themselves. The teeth on the inside of the sliders are tough to see until disassembly. But in your first pic, 3rd gear teeth look great, in your third pic, 2nd gear looks fine, but the slider (with the straight cut teeth) could be replaced but it might be fine; I don't do T5s often enough to say. $50 or more for that one. So it's tough to tell. I am going to have to build the one I posted pictures of above instead of just T56s. :D |
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