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Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Tax return time is coming up and im looking to do my research for a diff before I truly snapp the 94 lt1 rear end. I want to first state that by no means can I weld. I dont want to piece together parts and create a diff. im looking for ease of installing and swap a complete diff. When i swapped in the newer diff i also opted to have a 3' driveshaft made and upgraded to 1350 u joint which I believe to be 41.5 inches long to handle my 700hp. Which I have already surpassed recently. I want to safely try to start putting more of that power down launching the car and not sprinkle diff dust when i head to the track this season looking to get into the 10s repeatedly. I saw hawks 8.8 diff and was going through their options and seems like they dont really give you a guide as the hp capabilities of the posi units available. I assume for anything more than 500hp id need to go with the wavetrac 33 spline and all the options im looking at $3800. Plus shipping etc The S60 also comes up for easy to bolt-in setup at a lower price point but unknown what hp I can put through it but i see alot of guys running this on here with good success..but not on higher hp levels from what i see. Now i do drive my car both street/strip and have my spare gta rims with nitto 55s on them and want to air them down and launch for once at the track and not be scared to go after a slip so I want to see what do you guys suggest i go with for my given needs. And what experience do you have with either brand.Supposedly wavetracs are lifetime warranty on the posi and strange is not. Thoughts? |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? S60 all the way, dont bother with the 8.8 |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 84 z28
(Post 6275373)
S60 all the way, dont bother with the 8.8 |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
(Post 6275374)
Even given the power im going to throw at it with a 6spd clutch dump and sticky tire lol? Ford 9" 12 bolt In that order |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? ^^What he said. S60 all day. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? I would look at either a moser 12 bolt or a 9” from any of the manufacturers. I have had 2 S60’s one new one and one used one, had nothing but problems with both, and strange flat out does not stand behind any of their products. Personally I have been burned by them twice, and would never recommend an S60. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by charlie6178
(Post 6275887)
I would look at either a moser 12 bolt or a 9” from any of the manufacturers. I have had 2 S60’s one new one and one used one, had nothing but problems with both, and strange flat out does not stand behind any of their products. Personally I have been burned by them twice, and would never recommend an S60. care to explain what issues you had with the diff itself just so i know what to look for? |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? 9 inch |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by charlie6178
(Post 6275887)
I would look at either a moser 12 bolt or a 9” from any of the manufacturers. I have had 2 S60’s one new one and one used one, had nothing but problems with both, and strange flat out does not stand behind any of their products. Personally I have been burned by them twice, and would never recommend an S60. I won't drive the car until Spring, so I'm wondering if I should look for some problem now and not wait for spring. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? If you want alot of feedback on the S60 then look up reviews on LS1tech, I was going to go strange 12 bolt but couldn't find a deal good enough on black friday, I ended up going Moser 9" with all the options, between the new center and rear end package I was all in at about $3100 |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? I think the best fact about the S60 is it retains the factory type tq arm setup. The moser 9 or 12 bolt I have no exp with. I have a midwest fab 9. And that makes you weld in a tq arm mount setup. Its was quite expensive but I got all the options. Well made but it will drain your wallet, but looks great under the car. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6c131eaed3.jpg |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? I am in the same boat as you are OP. I will be ordering my rear this week actually. --- see my (long) thread here. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ice-input.html |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? So the first one I had was noisy no matter what gears we put in it, we tried 4 different sets with a Dana certified installer, not a garage shop. The 2nd one, I specifically asked if there was a lighter set of gears or something we could put in it when they were building it to keep it quiet, as it was only going to be a 350rwhp ET bracket car. They upsold me on a special gear that was a street car specific gear and it was about $200 more than the standard Dana spicer gear set. Sure enough it howled loud enough on decell they could hear it over the phone, and they agreed it was a bad setup. They said they would pay for a new set to be installed, so I took it to a Dana spicer factory installer, he pulled the cover while I watched, told me the gear pattern looked great, but checked the numbers and it was the standard gear, not the “quiet car gear” when I called strange on that they swore up and down he didn’t know what he was talking about. So we moved forward, installed another gear set, and they were just as loud. Then the installer tried 2 more sets of his own Dana gears to see if he could make it right, and never could get them quiet, even tho the pattern was perfect every time. At this point strange told me to pound sand, didn’t pay me for any of it, and told me it wasn’t their problem anymore. I said whatever, it’s my fault for buying a POS60 in the first place, so I decided to run it for a season and sell it after. 10-12 races in.. i started showing wear on the drivers side inside of the tire. Put the car on the alignment rack, and sure as ****, strange welded the bearing housing on the end of the tube crooked and the chamber was off, and had over a full degree of toe. I emailed strange on it and nothing. In my eyes, strange is a bunch of dirtbags who don’t stand behind anything. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Thanks for the details. I have to get the car aligned this year too, so I will be sure to look at the measurements on the rear. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
(Post 6275371)
Tax return time is coming up and im looking to do my research for a diff before I truly snapp the 94 lt1 rear end. I want to first state that by no means can I weld. I dont want to piece together parts and create a diff. im looking for ease of installing and swap a complete diff. When i swapped in the newer diff i also opted to have a 3' driveshaft made and upgraded to 1350 u joint which I believe to be 41.5 inches long to handle my 700hp. Which I have already surpassed recently. I want to safely try to start putting more of that power down launching the car and not sprinkle diff dust when i head to the track this season looking to get into the 10s repeatedly. I saw hawks 8.8 diff and was going through their options and seems like they dont really give you a guide as the hp capabilities of the posi units available. I assume for anything more than 500hp id need to go with the wavetrac 33 spline and all the options im looking at $3800. Plus shipping etc |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Yea Im looking for a ready to roll drop in replacement as I plan on just dropping the 10bolt in the driveway..bolt up the new rear..have my driveshaft altered and go. Im hoping my current length of the driveshaft might actually be ok since it was slightly shorter than stock. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? my 12 bolt from Moser arrives on Monday. it was pricey, but I should never have to do anything to it for many many years to come aside from fluid changes. when I asked, Moser told me that my particular setup should be good for power levels up to the the 900hp range (if I am not launching a nitrous launch with a transbrake...which I on't be). Install should be that I just bolt up my rear brakes, LCA's, torque arm, sway bar, shocks, install springs, brake lines, fluid and be done. measure for a driveshaft and order one. thats the plan. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *Update* Well my tax return has come and im ready to blow it on the rear. So i email Strange and boasts Im ready to rock their product and dump the cash..ship me a fancy new s60. I asked about power ratings,build times etc and to my disappointment. I got a very vague email stating they dont ship to Canada so place an order through summit or jegs via phone only..or they can ship to a forwarder,thats it! Wow thanks..None of my other questions were answered about power handling,build time etc...mentioned I wanted to feature more vids on youtube to back up LsxMatt's experiences with his unit. Not even a thank you for taking interest in our products. Cant say Im impressed with the response,makes me feel like IF I had problems with something being a Canadian so far away, id be left to hang. Sadly options to get things here arent so easy..nor affordable due to shipping.Ive emailed a few places and hopefully will have a solid path to what i get or have the car at a local shop build something and gamble that way. Ill keep the thread updated within the week,somebody is getting a chunk of cash from me this week.thats for sure lol! |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Dont let one email dictate your whole outlook on one company. I'm sure there are other people at strange more passionate than the one answering emails. Why dont you call? |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by IROCZ1989
(Post 6288449)
Dont let one email dictate your whole outlook on one company. I'm sure there are other people at strange more passionate than the one answering emails. Why dont you call? However..Midwest chassis,exactly who lsxmatt ordered from stepped up to get me what I want and ship directly to my door,answered my questions and made me as the customer feel like they appreciate the business from me. They assured me if i ever have an issue to deal with them directly,thats the service backing i wanted to hear also.Thats who I will spend my money with.Im excited to have a stout rearend in this car and see what it can really do now. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? I did my fair share of research on rear ends and the handful of big companies recently. I learned that Strange makes a very good product. I emailed them also and called about having them build me a 12 bolt setup with custom brake mounting plates and they wanted nothing to do with it. Ed Miller provided me with the backing plates FOR FREE after I sent him my old drum-to-disc plates and I told this to Strange, and still was not given the time-of-day. I found their website difficult to follow also. Again, I know they have a killer product, but I didn't get a good vibe. I also learned that some small differences in their castings can result in fluid leaks when certain axle housing ends are used? I decided to go with Moser for my 12 bolt. I'll only be throwing 550 hp NA at it with the occasional 200-250 wet shot of nitrous and was assured that the 12 bolt rear we spec'd out would easily take that. . customer service on the phone was great. I had probably placed 10-12 phone calls from my beginning stage of asking questions, to once it was installed and each time someone talked me through the answers and options. I even spoke to the actual tech who was building the rear twice on the phone. I had mine at my house in just under 2 weeks. keep us updated. I am curious to know and hope that you get a good axle. what are the details of your setup? |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Stranges website isnt the greatest and the fact they dont take online orders through it is a joke, I ordered my 9" straight off of Mosers website. Easy to navigate and the online ordering process for a custom rear end is very simple and can be completed in 5 minutes |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Speaking with Midwest they told me for an extra 175 to just get the upgraded chromoly pinion yoke and the lpw diff cover. Ill be doing stock 3rdgen width so i can tuck my gta wheels back in again.They say the diff is as per my order would be safe for 1000hp. The weak link would be the driveshaft again and i should look into a driveshaft loop in the future should I keep climbing up the power scale. Moser 12 bolt awesome also,but from everyone and research ive done..the s60 is just bullet proof for m6 cars.should be overkill for what im doing.Overkill is the insurance I need when i try to clutch dump on 2 step this season and hope for a good pass.I doubt Ill be breaking the rear gears on the s60.Im not worried about the weight if it holds and puts decent power down still. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Beware just cause you're buying an S60 you still need a good carrier or it will fail if your drag racing, when you start getting into the big power levels there are only a couple units that can and should be used and also larger spline axles |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? The s60 comes with 35 splines standard. The general concensus from people ive asked and research Ive done..and from MWC directly is that the s60 would take well over 1000hp to break it from abuse. If I was only going to drag race the car then they would suggest the 40 spline stuff with pro gears etc.but thats getting into big money. My weakest point now would be the driveshaft..and just small tire on the car now. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
(Post 6288721)
The s60 comes with 35 splines standard. The general concensus from people ive asked and research Ive done..and from MWC directly is that the s60 would take well over 1000hp to break it from abuse. If I was only going to drag race the car then they would suggest the 40 spline stuff with pro gears etc.but thats getting into big money. My weakest point now would be the driveshaft..and just small tire on the car now. 40 spline stuff seems HUGE!!! I was in awe of my 33 spline axles and thought they were huge. a 40 would be massive, like pro-mod stuff! what are your plans for a driveshaft? Mine should arrive this upcoming week. I went overboard but knowing it will be there for life is a nice thought. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? I already have a custom 3" driveshaft with 1350 joint on it made when I switched to my lt1 diff which makes it about 1.5" shorter than stock. It should be perfect still. If not I can have another one made locally for less than what it would cost to order one from mwc and have it shipped here plus conversion rates and taxes. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Baers is the Canadian dealer doe strange. You can order straight from them. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Funny because Strange directly emailed me my only option to order being from canada was through a US dealer and there was no Vendor to help me. Regardless at this stage im still happy dealing with MWC to build and ship it to me. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Ive been eagerly waiting for confirmation of the S60 to be shipped out and finally..its due anyday. So I spent a few hrs today to prepare for it and removed my lt1 diff. While the S60 was being built I ordered some BMR lower control arms and on-car adjustable panhard bar,all with poly mounts. If anyone is doing a rearend swap..now is the time to address everything back there in one shot.Its the small things like the swaybar endlinks needed to be replaced, new shocks is they are worn etc. The rear didnt give me too much trouble to come out but the control arm bolts did not want to easily slide out with the subframe also being bolted on in that spot wasnt fun. I left the wheels on as i lowered the diff just incase it decided to slip off the floor jack.That happened to me last time and cracked a rotor. Anyways here is the video as I went along with taking it out, Ill post more with the new setup and record break in miles. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
(Post 6288721)
The s60 comes with 35 splines standard. The general concensus from people ive asked and research Ive done..and from MWC directly is that the s60 would take well over 1000hp to break it from abuse. If I was only going to drag race the car then they would suggest the 40 spline stuff with pro gears etc.but thats getting into big money. My weakest point now would be the driveshaft..and just small tire on the car now. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60?
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
(Post 6288828)
I already have a custom 3" driveshaft with 1350 joint on it made when I switched to my lt1 diff which makes it about 1.5" shorter than stock. It should be perfect still. If not I can have another one made locally for less than what it would cost to order one from mwc and have it shipped here plus conversion rates and taxes. |
Re: hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? Technically yes but keep in mind that i also had to change the yoke on the diff and I didnt measure things after I had changed that.So the shaft itself its much shorter than stock..but overall its probably 2-2 1/4 shorter. once the new diff arrives..if i havent already sold mt lt1 stuff then i will do a direct comparison and take some pics/measurements. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* cool video! nice work. I waited until the exact day that I knew my new 12 bolt was "out for delivery" before I pulled the old 10 bolt out from under the car. I wanted to keep the car "road worthy" until I was certain that the rear was going to be arriving at my house. I will always have worries about parts shipping ever since last year when UPS actually COMPLETELY LOST my ProBuilt Automatics Transmission for several days. That whole debacle took years off of my life with the included stress and frustration. Anyways, nice video, its just hard to hear your voice during most of it . Glad you got a buyer for the old rear. out of curiosity I pulled mine apart a bit but haven't opened up the diff to see inside of it yet. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Yea I wasn't sing my usual external mic for my gopro when I was filming. It was pretty windy day and trying to cut out wind noise from the video takes away from the audio. Anyways..Im sort of dealing with a shipping issue for the new rear which as been delayed but should be here on Monday or Tuesday. Customs and the paperwork needed are a pain lol. I posted my lt1 diff for sale the moment I paid for the s60 just to line up a buyer ahead of time. the guy who bought was super cool older gentlemen that has a fairly clean 91 bird with a v6 auto he is looking to eventually ls swap and maybe go t56. The stock diff in the car is pretty shot and he wants to put the car on the road for now. He pre-bought new calipers and rotors for it and I gave him my built driveshaft and stock panhard bar since it was fairly nice condition. I showed him that the only thing I would do to be 100% is maybe new c-clips as there is starting to have end play but the rest of it is in great shape. We will keep in contact and maybe work something out for doing his swap on a budget. From here,once the s60 arrives I will do an unboxing and then get it in the car and start the break in process. Im going to have to spend my next few nights doing some highway runs ...which is hard to resist spanking neighboring cars and doing 45mph heat cycles lol. Stay tuned |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* So..still waiting for the diff,though its confirmed to arrive in the morning Finally! And the driveshaft should be later that night since they forgot to put it in the crate. So as i eagerly wait and have the car up on stands I did some other things. I fully rewired major components and removed some of the original..worn 86 wiring. Alot of if is pretty brittle..aged ..hacked or rotted. I tackled major 12v/ground points with new thicker ga wire..new ring terminals.I was noticing how much resistance was starting to affect the performance of the car overall and topping it off was relocating the battery to the trunk with 0ga wire upfront to posts, the 4ga to my starter/alt.i also pulled the fuel pump and did a hotwire/relay kit upgrade. I replaced my starter since it was quite old and tired from being bathed in oil from one of the previous engines blowing out oil from the opsu. I also did an oil change and went with rotella 5w40. Started the car up and it seemed to run quite happily..maybe better than before,could be in my head since im anxious to try out full power for a change. In a few short hours ill have pics and video worth sharing. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* ITS HERE!!!!! This thing looks like fine art with the T/A diff cover and those beefy axles. The crate arrived right before i had to start work so i wont be able to wrench on it till tomorrow evening. Im excited to get the car on the ground and start the long process of break-in miles before I can party. here are some quick pics. Installation starts the moment i get home from work and its not raining out! https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...b7e65d7ce7.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...03e2254202.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...6edef4b233.jpg |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* indeed it is a beautiful piece of machinery! |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* The diff cover is likely going to hit the gas tank. I have a nice cover that will not fit my car.. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE*
Originally Posted by Lonnie P
(Post 6300893)
The diff cover is likely going to hit the gas tank. I have a nice cover that will not fit my car.. Do you have the s60 aswell with a stamped steel cover? the T/A cover allows for quite a bit more fluid capacity. I was 3 bottle of gear oil before it started to be level with the fill plug. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* I have the steel cover on it now after the other one hit... but I do have a 4th gen plastic tank & a Watts link. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Judging from your sig pic i assume your car is also lowered which made things worse. Im debating on keeping the eibachs back there or weight jacks to raise the back up some. How bad did yours hit before you noticed a serious problem? Also how closely did you follow the break in procedure? Seems like i need to do 2 or 3 30 min drives with 30min cool downs inbetween. Then a 45 min 45mph drive with 1 hr cool down once or twice.keep things relatively low speeds for 250 miles. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* I saw major clearance issues before it was off the jack stands. As for the break in, follow the recommended procedure. I took a few short 5mi rides getting the car tuned, then progressively longer. I probably had 20 short rides before it saw a 30mi drive. The idea is to let the bearings & gears wear in without adding excessive heat, due to high loads or high speeds, which can soften any heat treated metals if anything gets too hot. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Well the good news..its in and it works. The bad news...Lonnie P was right :( It hits...but not my gas tank as of yet from what I can tell. Also my stock sway bar does not clear the diff cover also. Originally MWc told me the diff cover would hit a stock panhard bar but would be fine with a tubular bar,which i did just put on. However..the steel bar that is above the panhard is where the diff is in contact with.Providing me 0 suspension travel :( So my dilema now is to raise the car up some as to not sit on the diff itself..I could notch the bar, do the break in procedure as i order a steel cover and wait for that. By the time that arrives I should be done the break in period and would need to change the fluid anyways so that would be a good time for a cover swap I imagine. Sighs,damnit Lonnie P you jinxed it lol. |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* I forget how wide that "upper track bar" is but the sell a relocation kit and it might be thinner as its 1.25 DOM tube than the stamped steel piece that came stock https://www.foundersperformance.com/...v=7516fd43adaa |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Also make sure you dont have your sway bar upside down |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* yes, look into the tubular upper mount/brace made by founders performance. it MIGHT get you the clearance you need. also, are you certain that the axle is centered front/back in the wheel openings? can you shift it forward ever so slightly in the wheel openings (if you have adjustable rear lower control arms you would shorten them, and also tq arm)? I'm talking like 1/4" forward or so to gain whatever clearance you might need to gain?...not something drastic like 1" forward? |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE* Just for reference, I just put in a Moser 9" with a back brace, the back brace takes a good chunk of real estate. Looks to be as much if not more than your diff cover and it cleared no problem and I also have the relocation bar that I posted the link to https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thi...da6c1dc489.jpg |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE*
Originally Posted by 84 z28
(Post 6301163)
Also make sure you dont have your sway bar upside down |
Re: Hawks 8.8 or Strange S60? *UPDATE*
Originally Posted by IROCZman15
(Post 6301167)
can you shift it forward ever so slightly in the wheel openings (if you have adjustable rear lower control arms you would shorten them, and also tq arm)? I'm talking like 1/4" forward or so to gain whatever clearance you might need to gain?...not something drastic like 1" forward? |
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