Third Generation F-Body Message Boards - How to do the 3.4 long block swap Boogie! :)

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How to do the 3.4 long block swap Boogie! :)

This is for all that want to do the 3.4 swap boogie.
IF you want every detail, well, some may be missing.
Why?
I used a 1985 engine platform.
Your project may be different.
What I did, was keep this goal in mind.
I recreated exactly what I took out.
It allowed my computer, wiring, etc to be assured to function, properly.
It has.
I have heard variations, too.
One guy used the 3.4 oil pan and already on the timing chain cover & matching water pump 3.4.
Another "hole" was made, for mounting some bracketry.
His platform was a 1989.
Again, this is my tips for my package, a 1985 Firebird, starting with a 2.8 Multi Port Fuel Injection.
I will not go into removing engines.
I will give tips.
DO NOT disturb your throttle body settings or cables. My tranny shifted perfect and the car, idled well. So I only removed it off the intake and shoved it aside. You can do this and not break wires, cables etc.
AC Compressor- Even tho, I had no AC charge, I only removed it from the bracketry and shoved it aside.
Alternator- same idea, move it to the side.
NOW, Start labeling the OBVIOUS items.
In my instance, I'm stupid.
I marked the Fuel Injector harness (my way, you can mark yours your way. I use Front passenger side, Front driver side, Middle ,etc...).
Same idea with spark plug wiring. I did not remove wires from dist. cap. Why should I, no need. I'm being lazy, less to re-hook up.
Then start unbolting, wires, hoses, etc.
Again, the obvious.
If you can get away without touching the hose, wire, bolt, LEAVE IT!!
Eventually, the engine will be ready to remove.
The fun part is the tranny bolts. They are (my instance) 15mm and NO WORKING ROOM AT ALL.
But..
Some tranny bolts, you can only slide back, not remove. The firewall is in the way.
Oh, why not!
How else I cheated.
I disconnnected the torque convertor from the flex plate, left it attached to the tranny. NO TRUE NEED TO REMOVE MOVE IT!
Exhaust was easy, difficult. Recall Tom's fun? So was mine. Those bolts have gone thru a heating cycle, many times over. Be prepared for fun, there.
But, it can be removed, without destroying what you need to keep in mind, the pipes and manifolds separate.
Then after, you feel you have removed, labeled everything. Stop. Go have lunch, dinner. Come back again, later. Look at where you are.
Examine.
Is this labeled, so I can reinstall, easy? Is this outta the way?
Opps, this got broken, better make a note and make sure to get this part, now.
Again, obvious, easy solutions. It's all in the details.
Get ready.
Remove the engine. Lots of fun, excitment, cursing, worry.
GO SLOW, OBSERVE, GO SLOW, OBSERVE.
Have help, too!
To aid my job, I removed the hood. I removed the hood at the fenders, not the hood. No adjustment, needed to reinstall. I'm lazy.
If you're gonna climb into the bay, to help engine out, be careful.
Get it out, now and put it on a tire or leave in the air.
Start removing the old motor mounts, old oil filter housing, old balancer, old oil pan, old starter, old timing chain cover, old distributor.
That should do the block.
Start cleaning. I used a paint brush & kerosene. Then a rag with brake cleaner on it. I cleaned gasket surface. Then I cleaned surface again. I put it aside. I layed engine, pretty stripped now, onto the tire. It's a dead engine, you cannot hurt it. Then started with the top end. I have a three piece intake system. Yours may/may not. Again, every version will be different/same. I put all parts from the 2.8, cleaned, ready for installing, aside.
Oh, I forgot the vacuum hoses are fragile. But, you already discovered that, didn't you!
Let's start wiht the other block, the 3.4.
How I ordered it. I asked for the intake system attached, Ex. manifolds attached, oil pan attached, 3.4 balancer & flex plate, plug wires attached, I forgot to ask for the extra starter, drat!
You do not need the 3.4 ignition system. You cannot use it!
Get the 3.4 up in the air. Strip the oil pan, filter housing, timing chain cover, flex plate, etc.
Now, start attaching the old 2.8 stuff onto the 3.4 block.
USING A NEW TIMING CHAIN & NEW WATER PUMP (chains are about $30-ish, pump was $19).
AGAIN, YOU ARE RECREATING THE OLD 2.8 BLOCK, JUST USING THE 3.4 BLOCK, NOW TO PUT BACK ON THE "OTHER 2.8" STUFF!!
Keep this goal in mind.
IT ALL FITS, WORKS!

DO NOT TOUCH THE 3.4 EXHAUST MANIFOLDS, LEAVE THEM ALONE!!

This is easy, detailed. Start at one end, side, complete it with the parts, move on. You have 3 sides to work on, drivers, bottom, passenger sides.
THEN go to the front! The timing chain cover, the chain, the balancer.
Yea, there are exact details how to reinsatll. That's what the shop manulas are for. USE IT! They do have some helpful tips. AGAIN USE YOUR RESOURCES.
We are done with the short block. Lets' go up top.
On the 3.4 block, I really ran into ONLY ONE PROBLEM! The block at the back of the passenger side cylinder head, where (for me) the electric fan switch sensor went into the head. Tha block, is a 5/16' size plug.
HOW I DID IT.
I almost abandoned the project!
I went to the hardware store and got a 5/16 steel stud rod item. Paid about $1.50. my friend took out his torch (REAL, NOT THE TOY ONES) and heated it. Out it came. I slipped pipe sealant onto the threads (but, that's obvious, anytime you put a bolt, into a water passage, ISN'T IT!!), inserted new sensor (destroyed old one removing-remember I said, observe, be careful, I wasted $22 for that!). Done.
Driver side, had no problems.
NOW the intake, etc.
YOU NEED TO SWAP THE 3.4 INJECTORS ONTO THE 2.8 FUEL RAIL. How? I used a screwdrive to assist to remove the clips. BUT in the process, I got dirt inside the fuel rail. Guess what, I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. INSIDE TOO! I mean sparkle! Then used a oily substance (that won't break down that rubber seal) and slipped on the 3.4 injectors.
Done. I also swapped fuel pressure regulators, even tho they are identical. WHY. The 3.4 one was newer, & newer rubber seals.
Intakes.
I removed the push rods.
THIS IS YOUR CALL.
I put on the new gaskets, cleaned all areas, real through, layed on the RTV black into the corners, pushed it in, worked it into the crevices. Let it cure for a few moments. Layed down intake. That was done. Valve adjustment.
Had a real hard time.
Eventually set the valves by a compression tester. We needed it. Any extra little twist generated no cylinder compression.
We set the valves in the engine bay using the starter to turn over the engine. I ended up with 175-200 compression, each cylinder.
THEN lay down the valve covers, middle and upper intake. Try to do it a different way and you cannot!
Distributor. There is a block in the back of the block to remove. It's a "short oil gear drive off the cam, for the oil pump". That's what that does. Swap in your old distrbutor.
Now you're ready to go.
Hook up exhaust manifolds, start engine, time, drive away, happy.
IS it this simple, yes.
Again, keep the goal in mind, recreate exactly what you started with. That's the easiest way to go.
What I bought.
A COMPLETE ENGINE GASKET KIT FOR THE OLD OLD OLD OLD ENGINE. Not the new 3.4.
I also got a rear main seal.
I also got new hoses (dealer item!) for the bypass area up in the front.
New timing chain.
New water pump.
I USED A SMLAL BLCOK CHEVY DISTRIBUTOR GASKET FOR THE DISTRIBUTOR, not that hookey rubber joke of a ring thing!
NEW EXHAUST MANIFOLD DOUGHNUTS. The RIGHT ONES! Not the hookey generic ones!
I SPENT ONE WHOLE DAY ON VACUUM HOSES AND SEALING ANY LEAKS! Everytime I touched those plastic things, it broke,. I used 5/16" windshield hose to band aid, patch, you name it! I even used electrical tape (to take up slack, looseness), at that fitting at the back, by the distributor, because the 1/2" hose was to large, 3/8" was to small.
But, I am running at 20-22 inches of vacuum at idle, in gear idle is 15-17 inches of vacuum. THAT'S INCREDIBLE!
I have no oil leaks.
I have no water leaks (my bypass metal hose cracked, got it fixed for $5). I use no oil, I use some water.
I think I've given ya a good foundation to understand what is necessary to do this swap.
NOW...I've done two swaps before I did this (I'm 44). Both worked, but, not great!
This one, is perfect!
I took my time, I rushed, I observed, I checked, I asked, I cheated, I double checked, I WAS ANAL!
I now let my Wife take the car with my Son as a passenger.
You need time, space, common sense, knowledge and friends to pull this off. And a good garage close by, for questions, special fluids, etc.
Also this place. I asked lots of questions, I printed out 8 pages of notes from 3-4 different forums, I had both engines side by side, LOOKED AT MY NOTES! and then I went to work.
Did I leave out some details, Sure I did, Reno.
I don't know every detail of your vehicle. BUT, I layed out the general guidelines for the swap. Again, it's all there, you need the patience to do this job. When you get the 3.4 block, look at it, become familar with it, before you rip apart your old block or even take it outta the car.
Again, observe, look, check, double check, etc.
Oh, did I remove radiator?
Why? It's not in the way.
How did I hold up tranny, Floor jack and a stick, cause two bolts hung out to support the tranny.
Before you ask any questions, consider this.
Until you have the engines out, or even the 3.4 in your posession, you cannot really understand what the simple solution may really be.
I gave guide lines.
I'm not there to help ya, but, I'm here to answer questions.
Maybe not exactly the timely answer, but, that's good. You are thinking outside of the box.
Be careful, these things can hurt and kill ya if you are stupid. Check everything before you start removing and keep stupid friends clear out of harms way. Who needs their aggrivation, when you are on a mission!
After I did my swap, I had a few teething pains (like my 7 month old!).
I used the computer reader tool to answer my questions (I had a bad mass air flow sensor). I used extra time to reseal or wrap an extra hot air source (the EGR valve stuff).
That's pretty much about it.
I now need to swap in guage panel (what I haven't sone that yet, oh well, I check fluids OFTEN!!).
OH, ONE FINAL WORD, CHECK ALL ALL ALL ALL WATER HOSE CONNECTIONS, EVEN ONES YOU DID NOT TOUCH!
This swap is so worth it.
IF ya gotta rebuild something, do it now. Distributor, rebuild it! Don't even think of just slapping it back in, as it was. Get new electronics under there.
Best thing about rebuilding stuff now, with the old block, it'll put off having to swap blocks, as you'll discover a smoother running more powerful 2.8/3.1 engine.

Oh, can you bore this or that to make a 3.4?
Be my guest.
For $800 I got it all, warrantied for 30-60 days. I sold the left over 3.4 stuff for $105. I didn't waste time trying to create what I could buy, complete for so little pocket change! Compared to machining costs etc.
Until you get both engines, just print this out. And read it. And get a shop manual and look for your answer. You may gain more knowledge in the process.
When you get the chance to do this swap, you'll see the answer, too! You really do need the engines side by side to see all the differences and similarities.
Another reason why I did this swap was to fool the smog police. He thinks I have the original 2.8 in there! I'd have to pay an extra $300 for asmog recertification sticker to get a smog test. NOPE! I pay for smog test & go goodbye!
Have a pleasant time!
And a wonderful Easter holiday. Count your blessings! I do and I am, every mornign with my Wife and Son.
I'll be porting and polishing my other cylinder heads for my small block Chevy's and maybe swapping a motorcycle engine for the third time (remember I told you I wasn't successful on a swap!! This was it!).
Karl

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

Wow Karl, hey can I suggest something? Submit that sucker as a tech article!!

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

How?

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

I thought I was going to get dancing lessons. Not read a tech manual on an engine swap.

Them fighten' words, pardner!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

Take a chill, I'm not baggin' on the ole freight train. But the title commented on how to do the 3.4 boogie. I've never done a boogie. A little two step, some line dancing, I used to swing (west coast), But never a boogie. It is a good, detailed report on the swap if that makes you feel better.

Well, after recently doing this swap (and, no the car still doesn't run right... I've just been too lazy to take off the cat and see if that's what it is).... I only have a few suggestions/ideas that I tried.

The bellhousing to engine bolts:
Use a shallow 15mm socket, u-joint, and loooong extension. So long that you're actually turning the bolts from around where the tranny pan is...

The plug in the pass. side cylinder head:
I gave up.... I went and bought the $126 set of bits from the Snap-On guy... good news is, didn't even have to use penetrating oil...

I also used my 2.8 manifolds, and am right now using the 2.8 flywheel with the weight knocked off of it.

I had a lower radiator hose leak at the water pump, turned out to be a broken clamp. Now I've got one at the pipe that runs from the intake to the pass. side plastic thingie, looks kinda like a mini-EGR... dunno what it is, but it's leaking. I've gotta fix that.

As far as everything else, Karl's right. It's really, really simple. After all, I'm 17 and did it (with the help of my dad, and the help of Karl putting up with my numerous emails https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/wink.gif), and it actually looks like it belongs there.

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--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....

It's all out ther for others to add and for the help to others.
Maybe I should have called it the.....
SOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL TRAIN https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/biggrin.gif SWAP!
I guess some of ya don't recall the 70's slang terms.
Put my feet in da grave

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

Excellent post, https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/cool.gif I have printed it out and saved it on disk along with other tech related articles I have collected. I had just recently posted in the "Engine Swap" forum asking about just such a swap, and I got very simplistic replies. (i.e. "Step 1: remove 2.8, Step 2: install 3.4. End of swap") I am contemplating this swap for my car this coming winter, I was considering the GM Performance Parts 3.4HT crate motor. It's listed as an S-10/S-15 upgrade, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in an F-body. Again excellent post, and thanks for shedding some light on this subject.

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'86 Camaro SC 2.8 V6, 5spd
Bone Stock, I like to think of it as a blank canvas

3

what is the HP rating of a 3.4 and would a CAM help if I put it in when I do my swap??? and does the 4L60 transmission thats behind my 3.1L work with the 3.4 as far as RPM curves and shifts.

Ryan, here is what I've discovered about the cam.
The 3.4 cam is designed by Crane. It is avery aggressive cam design profile. It is smooth solid power, all the time. Not peaky at all.
TO MAKE IT ANYMORE EFFECTIVE, one only needs add stronger springs for the 6500RPM buzz (so stated in the 1998 GM parts book.).
I could give ya specs, but, honestly, accept this statement.
UNLESS YOU GO DRAG RACING OR ROAD RACING, leave it. Even the heads.
It kicks butts.
If ya want more, add Nitrous!
Right now, my tranny has worn out and I must change fluid for firmer shifting.

This 3.4 is the final design of the 60 degree engine family, is the best of the best. I only wish I could have made the 3.4 intake set up work, but, for smog & efficency (problem solving) I went with the sure thing. I have gone over 100mph with this car, so far (tires held me back, I need new ones).
It is so strong & torque is so much (200 foot pounds) for my purpose, I am so pleased. I do have other cars for other, faster missions. Yet, I consistantly jump into Jennifer (my Firebird) because it is such a well balanced package. When a car is "just right", it is such a pleasure to drive. The only thing I would like to do (and I am) is increase air flow into engine (ram air). Just have not figured out exactly how, yet. I am playing with several ideas.
Graeme was real kind and sent me pics of the hood I truly want. But at $600 (including shipping), I mean, I paid $300 for the whole car!
The $800 investment for the engine was steal! The new crate engine is $1600.
Go find this engine & enjoy yourself.
It is worth every scrapped knuckle!
Any questions, please ask.
We will all couch ya along.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

But you only gain 20 HP over the 3.1L so I think instead of doing all that work, I'm going to get a chip and a CAM and a cat.

thanks for the info, good luck, what did you ever do about your A/C and mounting it.

Let us know how you like your results.
I'm not driving my Firebird now as the tranny went. My 3.4 over powered the tranny.
IF ya have a good solid engine foundation, your solution is a very vaild thought.

ttt

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

ttt https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/biggrin.gif

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

thnx KED85, cant wait to get started, i wish i could jump on it right now! but it looks like its gonna have to wait about another month, 1year aniversary with the gf is coming up, wouldnt really make me look nice it i blow my savings on an engine and buy her some candies. But seriously i cant wait to get started on this project, let ya know how it comes out.

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91 Blue RS with ASCD SS hood w/hood pins, Flowmaster 80 series w/3 inch dual exhaust, K&N, Hypertech Power Chip, Bosch Platinum wires and plugs

I have finally noticed your signature. DUH!
You have all the correct foundation.
Just swap what I suggested and it looks like you're good to go.
Add to your own receipe, it is your swap. But start at a great, correct foundation, way easier to problem solve.
You will have some problems, after all, it is an custom engine swap.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

This is for all to see.
Glad it was located again:D

its back from the grave!! it good to see that this is still on te board.. there is alot of valuable info in here!!

Karl,

Got a question for ya...

I know you said you used the 2.8L's fuel rail, was there a need for this, or would the 3.4L's fuel rail work? Also did you have to re-config any of your fuel lines in order to make them fit, or did it all just fall into place?

I'm no ware near having the money to do the swap ( still unemployed), but I am planing a head. I'm anal that way. Anyone in the no-call central valley/bay area, and every ware in between area want to hire a dam good desktop support / fixes dam near everything person??

like Karl said earlier, recreate the 2.8 induction on the 3.4 block. Plus, on our year firebird there is a cold start injector which is fed from the the fuel rail. Karl can finish the rest.

Just as in the 2.8/3.1 engines in the 85-92's,
all those little differences.
On the 3.4 fuel rail, the fuel entry hard line is in a different spot.
As I said, until you get both engines side by side, you truly can't see why one option won't work as well as the other.
I'm glad I remembered why!

I talked to Dirk, he said he'll make it a tech article. To help him out Ked, you might want to (I haven't read it so if you already have don't flame me) doublecheck and make sure everything's included....maybe make a parts needed (other than tools, I means stuff like fuel rails, and whatnot)....and just make sure it's ready to go.

THANKS BILLY!!

I'll leave the "detail" part up to the others.
Does anyone feel I should/could add anything?

I think it still stands up quite well, as is.

Any other suggestions, please add them
We want this tech article preserved for all the others to Boldly Go!
To the local wrecking yards and get all the 3.4's they can for this swap!!

when i printed it out, i took 3 highlighters.. 1st color (i used orange) for the actual "meat" of the swap.. 2nd color (i used pink) for the intake stuff (karls swap was on a fi car and mines carbed).. and 3rd (i used green) mark all parts that were listed as "new".. that took bout half of the post out (again that was for MY purposes)..

for the swap on carbed manual cars, i talked to the guy (i think hes in oklahoma, not sure tho) that did this.. "If u have a standard and dont have a hydraulic clutch then u will have a problem. You will need to build a clutch fork adapter for it." - Ken Anderson - email to me on wed jan 2 2002

u may want to attach this link http://ken.lowrance.com/1982Firebird/1982_Firebird.htm as this, though no where near as informative, was done on a carbed firebird..

HE SPENT OVER $3,000:doh:
I did mine for about $800, total!
Including engine!
Some people have a money tree in back yard.
I know I added some fluff, but, I have to keep the swapper encouraged:cool:
Besides, I gave a real world story.
But I did leave out how much fun it is to deal with someone addicted to herion:(
I tired to do pic & stuff, but, with this guy, all he cared about was himself.
It's coming down to (another swap) right now. I've got to get a used running engine under my Blazer hood.
Got the tranny.
Now another 3.4 probably.
And I'll bet I can do the whole swap, engine AND another tranny, too (including rebuild) for about a grand!
Kinda wish I could find a good running 2.8/3.1, but....

i never sid he did it the smart way.. i only suggested it cuz it was w/ a carb and urs was w/ fi.. the fluff does make it read better.. everyone needs a little encouragement.. :)

I'll be damned, been four years since I did this swap!
Hope the information is still helpful to all.
Did you know you can mail order a Pat's & Gino's cheese steak?
Problem being is that the bread doesn't hold up very well!
And it's just not as much fun as those visits at 2-4 AM!

wow very informative thanx

can you use a 3.4 out of a the newer impalas? I can find them for about $500

Quote:

Originally Posted by micali

can you use a 3.4 out of a the newer impalas? I can find them for about $500

So far, thats a negative.

Also, to anyone who didnt notice, and doesnt know. This thread is 4+ years old. As well as this great member is no longer with us :(