Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

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Ok got the AFPR dialed it for 55psi at idle without the reference vac line. The car is a PITA to get it not hunting again. Knew that was going to happen. But else then that the car is doing good. Although I am a tad lean with the boost AFRs mid 12's are a little scary to me. That needs adjusted a little as my car usually runs higher AFR with the cut out off at the track.

You can check the log if you want and let me know what you think. It just stoped raining when I did this so the had to ease into the throttle and still spun the tires a bit causeing me to not build boost as much. But you can see the injec DC is about 10-15% less then before.

EDIT: I tuned again, and else then my AE mode needing tuned how does this log file look, tuner guru's?? Is it ok? Felt good, car ran strong. The file attatched is the latest one. Im done for the day, but just wanted some insite.

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

To rough in the AE as it was before, multiply the delta MAP AE PW table and the delta TPS% PW table by the ratio of the old injector flow by the current injector flow. So, at 55 psi a 29 #/hr injector flows about 32.6 #/hr:

29 / 32.6 = 0.89

So multiply all entries in the two tables by 0.89

Did you update the injector compensation values in the calibration? Since you are using GN injectors I'd grab the values from a GN calibration and plug them in. Even though they won't be exactly correct at 55 psi fuel pressure, it should help with the idle.

RBob.

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

Im not sure what you mean by calibration values? I modified the injector constant(f28 table) so that the car would not need to be tuned so much to compinsate for the increase in fuel. Although I got the car to idle and run well, under boost needed more tuning to dial in correct Afr's.

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

It is these tables (from Code59_3Bar_1.3_V18.xdf):

Fuel Injector Offset -vs- Battery Voltage (F92)
Fuel Injector Offset -vs- Base Pulse Width (F94)

Gimme' a few minutes to grab the values from a GN calibration.

RBob.

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

2 psi boost drop on the 2-3 shift,afrs are in the mid 11's in 3rdgear as well, but this is witht he cutout closed right?

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

Ok Rbob. Thanks

@ dave, yea that with the cut out closed. That spring should be here the next day I hope

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

should be pretty good for the track then, that spring should help with ur spoolup issues as well.

im curious do u have a picture of the cutout u installed?


edit


may i suggest starting a new thread just for the tunning part of this?

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

F94 Has all values of 0 (zero)
F92 Does have values, all 518.81 when the battery voltage is correct.

I dont have a pic of the cut out, but its right between me and the back seat on a 45* angle off the pipe. All of the piping is 2 1/2" Ill take a picture later tonight.

Good idea dave on the new thread for tuning only. Ill start one.

Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
 

I'll put the values here for now, can link to the other thread.

Leave the F94 table as all zeros, that is OK. See the image for the F92 values, much different.

RBob.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

What do you think? This is with only the new wastegate spring. Street start, street tires, cut out is NOT open. Car felt good and solid through out the run.

The Afrs are ok, a little shaky but they will lean out with the cut out off then Ill have to fine tune and continue to work on the AE some more.

Im planning on going to the drag strip tonight to run stock, so no cut out and no slicks. But if that datalogg is any factor of what Ill run tonight I would think low 14's are possible even with a slower launch. 0-100mph=roughly 13.15 seconds. So well see if that holds up tonight.

Sure wish I could figure out whats causing that false KR as I know its not real and its costing me HP at the track. If I even slightly squeel the tires the KR stays with me for a bit and when I shift and the car torqs, the KR is there. Some times the KR is there and other times its not.... Driving me crazy what is rattling or loose.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

that spring works really nice, no more boost drop on the shift, need to work on the spoolup time as u should have no problems seeing full boost in first gear

im still trying to figure out why its lean in second gear but rich as all hell in 3rd


couldnt see the kr since it wasnt included in the log

and the spring made exactly what i figured it would 12/12.5 psi even though it said 15 psi spring

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Yea im not sure either about why its lean in 2nd. But IIRC those lean cells start at about 5k+ which I never see in third. But I need to look it over again.

I just got back from the track and it rained out! Never got a pass.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Heres the latest, since I couldnt test and tune at the track because of the rain I got out early this morning and tried another tune. The AFR's are ok, a tad rich but I wanted mid 11's as the cut out will raise the AFR at the track. That innoying KR is still there and Ive noticed that when im deaccelerating that the KR will pop up. But overall the car ran good and pulled strong for a street start. Enjoy the vid, and check the log if ya want. Ive taken so much fuel out of the AE mode and havent even moved the AFR at all when going WOT, its still rich.


This will be the tune basically I will run tommorow at the track. Since its a point weekend I cant keep messing with the tune to make it faster as Im sure the taller slicks do slow me down compared to these street tires on this log. But I know its impossible to launch on the road above 1700rpm or so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMba...ature=youtu.be 0-110mph


I really wish I still had that video from a year ago going up to 100mph when it was stock. Project89 you remember that one?? About 28 seconds wasen't it.:lmao:Its still amazing to look back to see how slow the car really was when it was stock.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

ae = acceleration enrichment , changine these values wont change ur afrs, think of it as say a pump shot on a carb, its a quick shot of fuel thats injected when u open the throttle so the motor dont bog

ill take a look at the log here in a min but the video looked good

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

goto ur ve map and reduce the value in the ranges of 5500-6000 12-14 psi and pull a bit of fuel out id start with subtracting 5 from whatever values u have now

the same thing at the follwing values
7/8psi row
between 4500 rpms 6000 rpms remove about 3 from ur ve table


ur are going way to rich at low boost this is also hurting ur spool up time

add 3* of ignition timming from 0boost to 6 psi from 3000 to 5000 rpms

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

OK dave, ill tune it and take it for a spin later tonight when its darker out so I dont pi$$ off the neighbors..lol

I will admit I like the new wategate spring, the shifts feel much more smooth as if the speed doesnt stop like it use to.

Edit: values are changed and I will load up a datalog later tonight.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

yeah that spring is 100 times better 0 boost drop at all, now if we can just get u to build full boost in first gear u will be set.

pulling that tiny bit of fuel and adding that 3* should help it spool up a lil faster.

not to mention when u can actually launch with boost it will spool up faster to.

we need to get u to were u can make about 6-7 pounds on the line and u will be set

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Yea last week I was only making 3psi at the line. But I will say I felt a huge difference with a launch under boost. 2.00's 60ft times are better then the 2.20's I had the weeks before that. I also think that the dataloggs on the street seem faster because of the smaller tire size.

Mabey I can crack a 13 though with the boost not falling off now. Last week I was launching at 2600rpm or so but the car didnt even act as if it was going to spin the tires so Im going to try and push it a little more tommorow.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Ok I got a run in. I noticed that my AFR's were more steady but damm if I forgot to push the record button.. Crap man. But anyways I was looking at the afr guage and it was never lower then 11.5 and no higher then 12.2 so I think its better. No way to be sure till I take it out tommrow at the track. I cant keep drag racing down that same road..lol

Ill link up the datalogg tommorow for the first run(AND remember to push RECORD), arround 6-7pm.

But I did manage to set the g-tch for Hp. 208 was the recorded Hp with my correct weight. Not sure how accurate that thing is but I know it records RWHP.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Interseting plug reading for newbes like me, mainly the ground strap info As when I looked at mine, you could see the difference in color and it was like it says in this link.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%2...k%20Plugs.html

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

lol at forgetting to hit record, i really needed to see the datalog so i could see if u need anymore small tweaks

but with that kind of afr swing sound sliek that was enough to get rid of the really rich spots

u are still aiming for to low of afrs, i made best power up around 12.5-12.8 depending on rpm

how was the spoolup in first? did boost come up faster?

my next suggestion was going to be to take the whole ignition table and add 1* to every cell

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

It did come up faster, I actually noticed a difference, mainly in the sound of it but also in the feel.

1* to every cell?? Seems like Im runing alot of timing as is. But Ill get a log before I get to the track and link it tommorow morning at some point and mabey you can help me tweak it some more.

Yea im still aiming at the mid/high 11's as I didnt know what is really the upper limits of the AFR's under 12psi.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

ur getting near the timing limit for pump gas and boost u could prolly go another 4* under boost and be on the edge of detonation.

but even small changes in timing can make huge differences, i have seen first hand cars pick up 20-30hp from a 1* change

im also pretty sure there is some latency in ur ignition control so even though u are commanding 23* u might only be at 20*

smaller bores are also less prone to detonation vs larger bores so u can actually get away with a little more timming then say on a 3.4 motor

if u add timing see if the car picks up any if it dosent back it down to were u had it, there are times when adding advance wont add any power but wont detonate either


when u start playing with the timing just keep an eye on the plugs and knock readings.

reading the plugs will be hard cause u have to shut the motor off right after the wot pull

when at the track i finish my run get the car slowed down and kill the engine and coast onto return road then ill yank a plug or 2 and check them and then put them back in and return to my pits


if u have a digital timming light u can se ehow much ur spark is off from whats commanded by say setting it to 23* in all ignition cells.

then set the timing light to 23* which will make the light flash and the marks line up at 0* on the balancer then get someone to rev the motor up to 4-5k and see if the timming marks move as the motor is reved up

on my iroc my timing is actually 3* retarded from what is comanded on the megasquirt above 4k rpms

fortunatly for me the ms has latency stuff that i can adjust to make the number match at rpm

edit

deff post up a log in the morning and ill help u tweak it a lil bit more

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Ok dave this is with the cut off"off" Loud freaking car. Check the logs if you can.

I made 2 runs, #1 was the first and #2 was about 10 minuets of driving later. The plugs still look good/the same as always. The main reason I really dont want to mess with the timing is because I get KR sometime. Mainly when I shift, and you know ive been dealing with somthing rattling for the longest time. The first log looked good though, car felt good. its just impossible to launch on the road in order to get a boosted launch.

Thanks!!

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

u need to take out a lil bit of fuel ( value of 3-4) at 11/12 psi between 4700 and 5300 rpms

same thing at 7-9psi from 5-6,000 rpms

u also have a lil to much ae

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

If his AE is anything like mine was, he has way too much AE.

I did some comparing of my bin and a starter bin the other night and the starter bin had a LOT more AE, and I believe I still have too much AE in my program right now too. LOL

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

he does have way to much ill post up a graph in a second, but when he goes from part to wot afrs dip to10.0 in the log and stay there. im going to assum they are more like 7.0-8.0 afrs but the wideband wont read that low

as to u fast what u need to do is shrink the values till the motor stumbles when u crack the throttle then slowly pick them up a tiny tiny bit at a time until the motor will rev up and down cleanly without hesitation

its probably a big reason he has such slow spool up

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Exactly, the more I lean out my car, the quicker it spools.

It builds boost so hard that I decided that today I would order new tires, since my old ones are way beyond useful. lol

I'll post up my AE table in a bit, when I fire up the laptop.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Here is a comparison of the starter bin V4, and my AE tables.

Starter bin:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...1&d=1336915614

My current tables:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...1&d=1336915616

As you can see I've reduced the fuel, but I think it still needs to be reduced more. I just realized that the two tables match exactly, odd, I don't recall doing that. LOL

This is on a turbo 2.8L inline 6 cylinder, 2 valve per cylinder, with 32 lbs/hr injectors.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

well what happened at the track?

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

I ran constant 14.11-14.22 all weekend. I had to take some timing back out(up to 2*) as it was hot yesterday and today. Im sure that kept me from good times. I won the first round tonight and lost the second round because I raced a 18 sec car, and pased the guy 2 times. I had a .03x RT. Im really ticked about that, but its my fault for not winning it at the finish line. Ita like 1am here and im off to bed but Ill link up some log/slip tommorow. Ran a new best of 2.02 for the 60Ft time. Car ran good just had to play the consistancy game this weekend and couldnt push the timing to the limit.

Heres a short Vid of last weekend when I red lighted in the first round for some entertainment.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5veQ...ature=youtu.be

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Thanks for the AE tables, Yea mine seem to be bad, way too much fuel. I will work on that this week. I got a new job so I probly wont have much time to play till the weekends.

Heres some slips. Keep in mind I took a little timing out as I was seeing KR and it was real this time. It was a somehwhat Hot weekend.

Heres the best 60ft time. But I actually was moving though the beams while I was waiting to go=Redlight and longer time to the trap.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...94037140_n.jpg

This one was another time trial, just sat there a second so I could launch right, so I didnt give a crap about the reaction time. Launched lower RPMs then the first slip so that I didnt roll through the beams.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...19137736_n.jpg


Heres another TT, When I seem to launch at 2750Rpms, I get a decent 60ft time and a great reaction time.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...87148868_n.jpg






Theres also one datalog. the 14.21 sec pass. IIRC about 3psi when the car went from 0-xmph. So it was a boosted launch

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Heres my tables six. Im not sure how you got the table itself but heres my values.

AE Delta Map
30.5160
30.5160
45.7740
61.0320
61.0320


AE Delta TPS
45.7740
137.3220
137.3220
137.3220
137.3220

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

in that datalog u launched with .34 psi of boost when u went from part throttle to wot.

ur also running really rich still

just to give u an idea of how rich here is ur graph.
the yellow peak to the right of the blue line is 12.0 afr that afr line should be flat across the map for the most part

for 1-7 psi u can actually shoot for around 13.5 afr

and on the far left when u go from part throttle to wot u can se eu have way to much ae

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

does 59$ use a mixture of tps and map for ae or do u just select one or the other ?


for most of my tunning i find that only using one works best, on my own car i use ae based on tps

on pilsburys car being a stick and the turbo spooled up instantly i found it better to use map based ae only


being as the megasquirt can either be tps or map or a combination of both, i.e 50/50% map/tps 40/60 60/40 etc etc etc

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

I would start with reducing the TPS AE table, and watch for any lean spots as you press the throttle.

Remember these are "delta" tables which means that it is that the tables don't represent the values you would as the MAP proper, but the change in MAP value, will add that many Msec to the injector pulse, which is actually added between the main pulses that correspond to the DRP.

$59 uses both tables. I'm not sure why you would only want to use one table or the other, they serve different purposes. The MAP based AE, is good for changes in the road, like climbing a hill, where you don't need to press the pedal, but the load is increased, MAP based AE add that in with no TPS change. The TPS table will account for any quick throttle movements, where the MAP sensor may lag behind a bit and cause a lean spike.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

I was at 2.41psi at 0mph though..... but 100% TPS

I do know that latly exspec, since the AFPR the car is slower at the 1/4 mile but yet im making faster 60ft times...?




@sixshooter, ok I will start with those areas. Thanks

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

its running so slow cause of how rich it is, the car is 60"ing better cause u are just starting to get the motor into the onset of boost when u go wot. a true launch with boost would a few psi before u release the brake.

right now ur very close u basically getting the motor to 0 vacum on the brake then as soon as ur go wot it startts to build boost. if u can get it to 3-4 psi on the footbrake the car will do 1.8 ish 60 fts

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

yes but the ve table should account for any changes in load say going up or down a hill, that should have nothing to do with acceleration enrichments.

unless ae in code 59 is completly different then what im talking about

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Would a "safe Afr" be:

13Afr up tp 6psi

12.5Afr to 10psi

12Afr to 13psi

11.5Afr to higher then 13psi?

????

Dave did you see how high the Rpms were on the launch..2800Rpms...I can hold it any higher then that or im going to start moving..lol

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

13afr to 6 psi
12.5 afr upto 13 psi
anything higher then that stay around 12.0 afr till u see what it does

just cause boost goes up dosent mean the afr has to go down for most ppl 12.5 afr is a very good place to be

im going to post up a picture that should help u out a bit

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

nm on the picture i though i had a copy of my afr targets table on the laptop, it son my other one and my gf is on it playing a game atm

as far as moving on the line are u using the ebrake to help hold the car??
do u have rear disc or drum brakes?

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Dave, you know how I added some timing the otherday in the lower boost levels? And I also added some in the 90kpa and higher cells. Wouldnt that slow my spooling down since most of the heat would be absorbed into the block and engine and not directed into the exhaust. The reason I think that is because since the fuel is burnt at a later time(retarded timing) then the more heat would make it into the exhaust to spool up the turbo?

I have rear drum.
even with the e-brake, once I hold it at 2800rpms to long(over a few seconds at most) the car starts to spool as I can feel it and then the brakes get soft. I didnt link it but one time I launched at 3000 rpms and literly was moving slowly but managed not to red light

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

with an auto u want it lean and lots of timing to spool against the converter
with a stick u make it rich and severly retard the timing


that being said i can do the same thing i do with stick cars with an auto, but well work on that later first we need to fix ur afrs.

also if i show u how to set it up like a stick so it spools up super fast u wont be able to street drive on that tune so u would have to keep that tune on a seperate prom for the track only

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

this is 2,500 rpms in pilsburys car ( car makes full boost in nuetral)

http://www.streetfire.net/video/bad-...ro_2034246.htm

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

THat above link is just a whole bunch of letters and numbers...


I dont understand why it would matter if it was a stick or auto when it comes to helping up spool time for drag racing. Just retard the timing and add fuel and leave it on one bin file. Then once x psi is made then go back to the leaner(13-11.5) Afrs? But Im not thinking that this route would not be good for the exhaust valves and such?

I can tune tonight but tommorow I am going to, I already played with the bin file and modded it for a few chips so I hope I get results. I can get those AFRs under control in a good hour of tuning.

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

link fixed

when u click the link tgo sesored the link so when the next page opens up replace the three *** with the three letter word for butt and then load the page

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

the reason u dont go super rich and retard the timing with an auto well theres 2 actually

witht he timing that retarded it will never flash the converter to stall speed engine wont make enough tq to push the converter

#2 with the motor being that rich the car will bog when u go wot

with a stick there is no converter to load


the only way to setup an auto car like that and have it work right is to use a 2 step or antilag/launch feature

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

Wow that is impressive.

Ahh I see, theres a spool up mode on $59 but its undevelpoed I think as I tried it once and It didnt work right, actually it ruined a bin file so that it wouldnt read anymore...

Re: Fasteddi turbo thread v2
 

10* ATDC
25% extra fuel