anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Any of you guys ever use water pump spacers?

I'm using a SWP on a 400 block. I have to use spacers because the water pump hits the timing cover.

I've had this apart 4 times and I keep getting leaks at the bolt heads. I've thread sealed the crap outta the bolts, RTV'd all four gaskets. Let it set up over night. It still leaks.

I can't run a long water pump because I run a driver side alternator, which is not available in a long water pump.

I cannot run the short water pump without spacers, because my timing cover (with integrated roller cam button) hits the water pump before it's seated.

This is driving me insane.

-- Joe

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Thread chase the block. Use thread sealer not rtv on threads. Rtv gaskets in place. A small o ring under the bokt head may help also.

If it's an aluminium pump tig weld the spacers to it

Another trick is to dimpke the surfaces with a punch so they dont float/move

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I chased the block, and used PTFE thread sealer.

I can tig the spacers to the pump, but it will warp and I ave no way of milling it flat again.

This whole thing is pissing me off. I've had this pump on and off a number of times now.

-- Joe

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

How thick are the spacers?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

1/8"


-- Joe

paulo57509

I can't recall; are the water pump mounting bolt holes blind or thru into the water jacket?

If they're blind, could the bolts be just a tad too long and be bottoming out and giving the appearance of being tight?

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

They are open to water

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I don't think it's walking up the threads, they are sealed. I feel like it has something to do with the spacers.

-- Joe

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Joe, if you don't mind my asking...I didn't even know such a thing existed. Spacers? Do you have a photo of these?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allstar-Perf...dVLYs7&vxp=mtr

There you go

-- Joe

redneckjoe

i never use the gaskets, just RTV on the block and waterpump. let it set up for 5-10 minutes then install. maybe try it without the gaskets and see if it works out for you?

JA411

How about using 4 studs instead of the bolts. Using RTV on both sides of the gasket usally causes gasket to slip or split or leak. Check flatness on all surfaces. Try putting together with gaskets only no sealer or sealer only and no gaskets.
Joe

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Those gray paper gaskets suck. Try the good Fel-Pros. 4 of them.


If you have a machine shop near you, have o-ring grooves cut into both sides of those spacers.
If you do this, don't forget about the bypass channel hole.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So, On attempt #2 I tried RTV (the right stuff) without gaskets. Still leaked.

I used Felpro gaskets on attempt #1, 3, and 4.

I have not tried studs. I bought an actual water pump bolt kit.

I don't understand how it's leaking. The thread sealer should prevent coolant from walking up the threads. I just wonder if it's not a port misalignment thing and it's spilling coolant into the bolt area. It just doesn't make sense to me.

If I could trim the cover on the water pump, and replace the cover bolts with very small flat head screws I bet it would clear the timing cover so I could omit the spacers. But I can't seem to find replacement water pump cover gaskets, so I don't want to take it apart.

-- Joe

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Does it leak on both sides or just the one with the bypass hole?

What kind of timing cover are you using?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Both sides. It was leaking only on the bypass side at first. I put my coolant leak checker on the radiator and pumped it up to 20 psi, and it came out both sides.

When the car is running, the drip is very minimal and evaporates down by the balancer. But you could smell it. When the car is on the lift over night, you will get a few drips of green on the balancer itself.

I just don't get it. I've used two different thread sealer compounds, both high temp and PTFE based. Chased the holes. The block was cleaned with my air tool and pads. It's CLEAN. Tried two aluminum water pumps, thinking maybe the first one was warped. It HAS to be the spacers I guess. Maybe they just are not machined flat?

-- Joe

redneckjoe

is it possible that your still making slight contact with the timing cover even with the spacers?
i think i'd have to pull it off and lay the pump and spacers on a very flat surface,..use a feeler gauge or light and see if something isnt mating correctly. give it a very careful look over. something isnt right. very well could be a bad port alignment on the spacers.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No, it's not hitting the cover.

I'm gonna tinker with it this weekend. I've got a sled in the shop right now that I was supposed to rebuild this weekend but they sent me the wrong gasket kit. Once I get that out I can jump back on the firebird. I just wanna have a plan.

Ideally, if I could somehow clearance the back of the pump so I could omit the spacers that would be great. The cover itself doesnt hit the timing cover, the bolts do.

The timing cover is a cloyes 9-221 . It's supposed to fit behind a short water pump, but again the bolts on the pump whack it.

-- Joe

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Bolts are probably too long and are bottoming out. I checked two non-400 blocks and only the lower drivers side bolt is fully open to water. The other three are blind holes, with the upper passenger bolt hole being fairly shallow.

Next time pump is off thread the bolts in until they bottom. Measure the exposed length of each bolt and compare it to the water pump thickness and the spacers. With everything here being aftermarket (bolts, pump, spacer) who knows how far off they are.

RBob.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I was thinking about that when I had some regular bolts, which is why I bought some actual stainless W/P bolts. I checked the length, and if anything they are too short by about 1/8".

All 4 are open to water though, I don't know if they were drilled at one point. It's a mid 70s 400 block. When I cleaned the holes prior to chasing I could get the brush in about an inch plus haha.

Thanks

-- Joe

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Good move on using SS bolts, keeps the rust down. I wasn't sure if the 400 block hits water on all four holes, which is why I mentioned them not being one.

Maybe they aren't tapped deep enough? As for the pump rear cover bolts, just swap them one at a time and don't worry about the gasket.

RBob.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I think I'll give that a try this weekend. I really wanna get this car out of the shop as I need to do an intake gasket & freeze plug on the C4 and I only have 1 lift.

-- Joe

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Fab a new mount for the DS alt mount.

Run iron to iron to iron to prevent thermal expansion differences.

Any chance of porosity? If I had a bandsaw and old pump, I think that would make for a quality spacer set.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'd have to buy crank pulleys, ps pump pulley, ps pump bracket, and a wp pulley.

Easier to just fix the leak.

What I should have done was kept it serpentine, and just fabricated a tensioner to my supercharger bracket, but that ship sailed.

-- Joe

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Interesting. Thanks for that.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I have used those allstar spacers before, they never leaked. I DO have studs on the water pump though (because it's a nascar type pump that has allen studs in the pump to pull the pump up to tighten the belts)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

There is no way a short pump is going to clear this cover. I spent some time on it tonight.

I'm going to have to use a long pump, but that requires me to change my pulleys, and accessory brackets.

I guess I could stick a third gen serpentine setup on it and just make an tensioner off my blower bracket.

What a pain in the ***.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ok So I yanked everything off and found a serp bracket. I'm going to run a factory fbody serp bracket and 140 amp alternator (have them), reverse rotation water pump.

The only thing I need to do is make an tensioner. I have a nib mopar tensioner that I believe just requires a single center bolt and hole so that would probably work.

-- Joe