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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I recently purchased a l33 all aluminum 5.3 with 95k miles. All fourth gen f body accessiories (new), mounts, adapter plates, ls1 intake, 500$ harness and preprogrammed ecm, nuts, bolts, the list can keep going!! Anyway, I'm at a stand still finding an ls t56 6 spd locally that i can inspect and maybe look the seller in the eyes and make sure I'm not buying junk. Long story short I found an Ls1 c5 pullout with T56 and everything but it's C5!! Is it that harder and more modifications needed to complete? I'm in the engine and ls swap parts before trans around 2500$ not including headers. The c5 pullout with 75k is 2600$ with everything! Any info will help. Randy
It will cost you anywhere from $600-1000 to convert a vette t56 to F body specs. Factor that in. You can get a new T56 Mag for $3100. If you want a stick, your gonna pay.
It will cost you anywhere from $600-1000 to convert a vette t56 to F body specs. Factor that in. You can get a new T56 Mag for $3100. If you want a stick, your gonna pay.
This is honestly the reason I don't think I'd ever swap in a stick. I mean I'd love to but the freaking price tag...
Side note you'll pay wayyy more bc it's a "vette" anything. At least that's how it is where I'm at. If you can get the motor and trans for that price it's probably not bad. Try to sell the motor and you'll be under what a fbody T56 will cost ya even with having to modify it. Trick is selling that motor tho.
This is honestly the reason I don't think I'd ever swap in a stick. I mean I'd love to but the freaking price tag...
Side note you'll pay wayyy more bc it's a "vette" anything. At least that's how it is where I'm at. If you can get the motor and trans for that price it's probably not bad. Try to sell the motor and you'll be under what a fbody T56 will cost ya even with having to modify it. Trick is selling that motor tho.
i kinda knew what the price was gonna be. Right now with the engine/trans and everything involved I'm right at where a summit 383 would cost me besides the ease of swap 383 would be. The work to swap everything and be functional is the only problem and will take a few weeks. I didn't chose ls1 bc of the spun bearing issue they are notorious for, so I went L33 which is 320 hp stock and all aluminum so I plan on saving some weight too. Cam, headers, and tune should get me around 350-360+ with 20+ mpg! I was sick of nickel and diming my 305\700r4 and spending money on old technology.
I have a 2010 Yukon with 5.3 and I'm hard on it, pulling my boat, taxi driving the kids, and my girlfriends heavy foot. 170k miles and not one issue.
Last edited by randallp504; 08-04-2017 at 07:42 PM.
i kinda knew what the price was gonna be. Right now with the engine/trans and everything involved I'm right at where a summit 383 would cost me besides the ease of swap 383 would be. The work to swap everything and be functional is the only problem and will take a few weeks. I didn't chose ls1 bc of the spun bearing issue they are notorious for, so I went L33 which is 320 hp stock and all aluminum so I plan on saving some weight too. Cam, headers, and tune should get me around 350-360+ with 20+ mpg! I was sick of nickel and diming my 305\700r4 and spending money on old technology.
I have a 2010 Yukon with 5.3 and I'm hard on it, pulling my boat, taxi driving the kids, and my girlfriends heavy foot. 170k miles and not one issue.
They really are good engines. I've got 220k on my daily driver 5.3 silverado and 250k on another (4.8). Both run like new. I don't fear a few miles on these.
They really are good engines. I've got 220k on my daily driver 5.3 silverado and 250k on another (4.8). Both run like new. I don't fear a few miles on these.
Good to know. My dad recently upgraded from his 05 silverado (LM7) to a 2010 silverado.
He had 205K on the 2005 and did nothing but change 1 spark plug coil and oil changes. Heck of a truck.
T56s are in demand. I got a local LT T56 for $1700, add the mechanical speedo conversion for $325. I haven't driven it, yet, so I don't know its condition.
T56s are in demand. I got a local LT T56 for $1700, add the mechanical speedo conversion for $325. I haven't driven it, yet, so I don't know its condition.
theres a Mexican transmission company in Houston I hooked up with. Ls t56 full rebuild, bell housing, and LUK clutch kit for 2100 with 12 month 12k miles warranty: I live in New Orleans so I had to find deals...6 hours away.
I recently purchased a l33 all aluminum 5.3 with 95k miles. All fourth gen f body accessiories (new), mounts, adapter plates, ls1 intake, 500$ harness and preprogrammed ecm, nuts, bolts, the list can keep going!! Anyway, I'm at a stand still finding an ls t56 6 spd locally that i can inspect and maybe look the seller in the eyes and make sure I'm not buying junk. Long story short I found an Ls1 c5 pullout with T56 and everything but it's C5!! Is it that harder and more modifications needed to complete? I'm in the engine and ls swap parts before trans around 2500$ not including headers. The c5 pullout with 75k is 2600$ with everything! Any info will help. Randy
What are your plans for the engine? Are you wanting a naturally aspirated engine or a turbo engine? If it's a turbo I would stick to truck engines. No turbo and I would go with the Vette assembly. As long as you didn't overpay and you are not in too rural of an area it shouldn't be hard to sell the 5.3, especially being all aluminum.
L33 5.3 all aluminum truck engine which came with ls6 799 cast heads. I'm putting ls1 intake on it, 228r texas speed cam(maybe new rocker arms) and long tubes with a tune. Hopfully get 370 to the wheels. I'm not a turbo man, and it's really just a cruiser. After I get my hands on it or ride in a turbo truck ls engine I may investigate my options.
Food for thought, If we are talking LS, to a certain point a turbo engine and a NA engine of the same power level will cost similar if not having the turbo engine cost slightly less. One of the big differences in the two though is that the power and cost from a turbo engine comes from the piping and turbo components whereas on the NA engine it comes from a myriad of different aftermarket components all working together. When a turbo 5.3 breaks you simply pull another truck engine and swap your accessories. When a built NA breaks you may be starting from scratch and building another engine all over again. To me, hot rodding now-a-days is all about putting LS engines in older cars or putting turbos on an LS. For instance, my AFR heads alone were over $1000, which in some cases is half way to the cost of a stock 5.3 with a turbo.
At any rate I'm surprised people having difficulty finding T56 of any sort. And $1700 for a T56 was twice what I paid for mine and mine had a clutch setup almost brand new, a pro 5.0 shifter and supposedly a stage 2 kit in it. It's been a long time since I have seen a T56 from an LT1 go for over $1000 on these boards unless they had goodies to go with. Heck, you can go to some parts stores and buy rebuilt T56 with a warranty for close to $1700. I would have no problem buying an LS T56 off ebay and paying with PayPal. If the seller said the transmission works as it should and you receive it and it shows else you can return it without their agreement. PayPal backs it up that much. I've had it happen where PayPal told a seller to basically give me my money back or PayPal will just reach into your account and take the money.
Food for thought, If we are talking LS, to a certain point a turbo engine and a NA engine of the same power level will cost similar if not having the turbo engine cost slightly less. One of the big differences in the two though is that the power and cost from a turbo engine comes from the piping and turbo components whereas on the NA engine it comes from a myriad of different aftermarket components all working together. When a turbo 5.3 breaks you simply pull another truck engine and swap your accessories. When a built NA breaks you may be starting from scratch and building another engine all over again. To me, hot rodding now-a-days is all about putting LS engines in older cars or putting turbos on an LS. For instance, my AFR heads alone were over $1000, which in some cases is half way to the cost of a stock 5.3 with a turbo.
At any rate I'm surprised people having difficulty finding T56 of any sort. And $1700 for a T56 was twice what I paid for mine and mine had a clutch setup almost brand new, a pro 5.0 shifter and supposedly a stage 2 kit in it. It's been a long time since I have seen a T56 from an LT1 go for over $1000 on these boards unless they had goodies to go with. Heck, you can go to some parts stores and buy rebuilt T56 with a warranty for close to $1700. I would have no problem buying an LS T56 off ebay and paying with PayPal. If the seller said the transmission works as it should and you receive it and it shows else you can return it without their agreement. PayPal backs it up that much. I've had it happen where PayPal told a seller to basically give me my money back or PayPal will just reach into your account and take the money.
I've found a few pullouts and seen few on eBay that weren't already in a engine trans pull out. The warranty is what I'm interested in. The l33 I purchased off eBay came with 2 year 24k mile warranty, even tho they would never be able to know the mileage. It's hard to trust folks now a days and a I guess a piece of mind goes a long way. I never really checked local auto parts stores for one but on car-part.com there isn't one from the junk yards nationwide that are under 2k$.
As far as turbos go that is definetly an avenue I've never wandered down but not scared to. I've seen what 5.3 engines can handle and produce in forced set ups and it amazes me. Thanks fir the reply.
The warranty is what I'm interested in. The l33 I purchased off eBay came with 2 year 24k mile warranty, even tho they would never be able to know the mileage. It's hard to trust folks now a days and a I guess a piece of mind goes a long way.
Print out the ad, save the receipt. If something were to happen most credit card companies and especially PayPal will go to bat for you if you can reasonably prove your argument.
It sounds like you aren't going the turbo route so I would see about buying the pullout and selling the 5.3 to a hot rod guy. Lots of guys have done the LS swap on here but if you have questions about how to do something wiring wise or how to make something work I would give a hollar to RobGuitarGod. He has a great build thread going in the member's camaro section. Give it a read!
Print out the ad, save the receipt. If something were to happen most credit card companies and especially PayPal will go to bat for you if you can reasonably prove your argument.
It sounds like you aren't going the turbo route so I would see about buying the pullout and selling the 5.3 to a hot rod guy. Lots of guys have done the LS swap on here but if you have questions about how to do something wiring wise or how to make something work I would give a hollar to RobGuitarGod. He has a great build thread going in the member's camaro section. Give it a read!
thanks for reply tibo, I tried searching for it can you send the link please? Thanks
the amount of frame work and support that would be needed if those numbers are achieved....I hope you're right in a wrong way!!! Thanks man fingers crossed.
I have only seen a few 5.3 builds but most are around 300whp my buddy just finished up a s10 with a cammed 5.3 only made 280whp with a 4l60e an 3000 stall.
Another option not many mention is converting a TR-6060 to fit. That's the route I went. Texas Drivetrain Performance used a TR- out of a gt-500, and adapted my old lt-t56 tail and bell housing to fit. The whole thing cost me about 2500, and it is a far superior transmission.
I am seeing the TR's on Craigslist going from 1000-1500.
Honestly, the amount of money the old worn t56's are going for, I wouldn't even consider going that route.
Keep looking and you'll find a T56 for 1500 or under.
They're really not hard to rebuild at all, so tear into one and you'll be glad you did. If you're just daily driving, basic upgrades are only a few hundred dollars. However, if you get it cheap it's probably for a reason. You could also get lucky and find something cheap that's also inexpensive to repair. Worn out blocker rings or broken gear teeth come to mind.
Adds up quickly, doesn't it?
And when you're done, you still have a used engine with 75K+ miles.
Not for me.
That's low mileage seen inside 100k+ looking great inside many do Cam swaps still run strong
Originally Posted by NoEmissions84TA
No swap. You gave the reasons why I would not even consider it.
Debatable you can buy swap parts and swap $$$ or DIY and save all you really need is mounts headers and if don't want to fab then y pipe , everything else can be done with quality for cheap
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
This is the secret to every successful swap on these boards. 👍
Agreed
To OP sure you can find t56 f body or gto drop out for 2 to 3k or less than 2k f body or gto drop out is the easiest route as only harness and mounts needed
Drop out should include everything harness ecu front pulley etc
FWIW... I wasn't for the swap... until I got a running driving cammed t56 4th gen with goodies that was totaled for $2700...
I got everything cammed ls1, the t56 shift fork is bent but I was doind a rebuilt on it. But motor, accessories, rear, fuel tank pcm, t56, had a tick master, a GMhot cam, ported heads, etc... Granted its pricey but I parted out tons of the 4th gen. I am like $1200 into the the swap... and I got EVERYTHING out of it donor car.
FWIW... I wasn't for the swap... until I got a running driving cammed t56 4th gen with goodies that was totaled for $2700...
I got everything cammed ls1, the t56 shift fork is bent but I was doind a rebuilt on it. But motor, accessories, rear, fuel tank pcm, t56, had a tick master, a GMhot cam, ported heads, etc... Granted its pricey but I parted out tons of the 4th gen. I am like $1200 into the the swap... and I got EVERYTHING out of it donor car.
was the car already a 5spd? The only thing I'm worried about is that the 83 did not have a hydraulic clutch system, it was a manual clutch. I haven't looked yet but I'm hoping there are the punch holes that everyone says are there.
Also I went with painless harness for ease and tech support to assist me if I hit a snag. But talking with a guy about swaps with third gen camaros and he said something about a converter, lingen something. I can't remember for the life of me. I want to say it was tying in the ls harness to cars original harness. Randy
Yes you need to cut into firewall and tunnel for manual swap it's actually simple hardest part is cutting holes other than that can use all factory stuff nothing crazy
Yes you need to cut into firewall and tunnel for manual swap it's actually simple hardest part is cutting holes other than that can use all factory stuff nothing crazy
I bought factory 3rd gen pedal assembly, and center console 5spd piece. As far as stock stuff goes, I was told I needed adjustable master, to ls hydraulic line. Or just buy ticks or hawks master cylinder. I was told the factory line to slave is too small and needs to be drilled out to fit. I saw a sticky on how to do it but they were saying the clutch release point is all the way at top of pedal.
Not needed but it's better Thirdgen pedal sit higher I didn't like it went with 4th gen pedal the pedal swing mount is different location so hence different pedal height ticks is adjustable so doesn't matter
Yes you can do drill mod it's for high rpm shifting
But don't need the tick but it is nice if you can fit it in your budget
Supposing the LS T56 and LT T56 are close, if you have the Thirdgen pedals you can use a Thirdgen master and a 1980s cavalier slave and then just make your own AN line from an style brake flex hose. Again, not sure if the T56s are the same but it works perfectly for me.
Supposing the LS T56 and LT T56 are close, if you have the Thirdgen pedals you can use a Thirdgen master and a 1980s cavalier slave and then just make your own AN line from an style brake flex hose. Again, not sure if the T56s are the same but it works perfectly for me.
thanks for the reply, the lt and the ls are pretty different. The lt has a fork while the ls has a throw out bearing, I believe. Honestly, instead of gambling with a $200 MAYBE, I may as well spend the extra $100 and get the one that has proven to work.
Randy
Use stock replacement or get ticks if it's in your budget
The only difference is the output shaft, front plate, and bellhousing. You can get all parts for around $600 new.
I used my stock 3rd gen pedals, master cylinder, and a line I bought from Hawk's (don't remember exactly, but it was the braided line with -4AN connector off the master cylinder). It didn't fit exactly, but I didn't need to drill anything out just used some sandpaper to loosen the tolerances so that it would fit and used the same lock pin, been trouble free for over 2 years now.
I collected parts for a long time before doing my swap, and waited for deals. Got the long block for free in exchange for work, T56 for $200 dollars, and found someone on LS1 tech with a blown motor and bought everything minus the longblock for around 1000 bucks I think? Sold every single thing I removed from my car and probably made money on my swap
The only difference is the output shaft, front plate, and bellhousing. You can get all parts for around $600 new.
I used my stock 3rd gen pedals, master cylinder, and a line I bought from Hawk's (don't remember exactly, but it was the braided line with -4AN connector off the master cylinder). It didn't fit exactly, but I didn't need to drill anything out just used some sandpaper to loosen the tolerances so that it would fit and used the same lock pin, been trouble free for over 2 years now.
I collected parts for a long time before doing my swap, and waited for deals. Got the long block for free in exchange for work, T56 for $200 dollars, and found someone on LS1 tech with a blown motor and bought everything minus the longblock for around 1000 bucks I think? Sold every single thing I removed from my car and probably made money on my swap
how is the clutch release/grab point? So you used the stock assembly or used the cavalier master that i keep hearing about.
The lt has a fork while the ls has a throw out bearing, I believe.
I think you have the idea correct, and excuse me if I get too nit-picky, but your description is lacking:
Every(?) manual transmission has a ThrowOut Bearing (TOB) to push on the pressure plate to release its grip on the clutch.
LT - conventional TOB, except in a pull orientation. Fork. Externally mounted hydraulic slave cylinder. Most slaves do not have bleeder screws (Caviler slave may be an exception), and is bench bled as a single, complete system.
LS - TOB combined with a concentric hydraulic slave cylinder, generally called "hydraulic TOB", mounted internally (inside the bell). The master-to-slave hose, which from the factory(?) has a "dry" quick disconnect, runs into the bell housing, as does a bleed line.
(?) are provided to allow for obscure examples where my generalization doesn't apply.
The only difference is the output shaft, front plate, and bellhousing. You can get all parts for around $600 new.
LS input shaft is longer than the LT.
Originally Posted by randallp504
or used the cavalier master that i keep hearing about.
The Cavalier slave is larger than the T5/T56 slave. As the slave/driven cylinder, being larger reduces the travel. (Less output for the given input). This makes up for the difference in where the master stud is located on the pedal, causing different leverage ratio on 3rd vs 4th pedals. The stud on the 3G pedal is farther from the pivot, causing longer travel on the master (vs the 4th), therefore the larger Cavalier slave compensates to reduce its travel back to what the LT T56 is designed for, and prevent over-traveling the fork and running it into the pressure plate (noisy, self-clearancing).
how is the clutch release/grab point? So you used the stock assembly or used the cavalier master that i keep hearing about.
At about the half way point with stock 3rd gen pedal and 3rd gen master cylinder, actually, I take that back. When I bought the car the previous owner had installed a T56 in place of the T5, so it's possible he changed to 4th gen hydraulics. I included a picture if someone who knows more than me can chime in.
Originally Posted by MoJoe
LS input shaft is longer than the LT.
Yup, sorry for the mis-type.
Last edited by mcgarnicle; 08-12-2017 at 10:00 AM.
At about the half way point with stock 3rd gen pedal and 3rd gen master cylinder, actually, I take that back. When I bought the car the previous owner had installed a T56 in place of the T5, so it's possible he changed to 4th gen hydraulics. I included a picture if someone who knows more than me can chime in.
Yup, sorry for the mis-type.
perhaps that perfect little combo would happen to be for sale?!
At about the half way point with stock 3rd gen pedal and 3rd gen master cylinder, actually, I take that back. When I bought the car the previous owner had installed a T56 in place of the T5, so it's possible he changed to 4th gen hydraulics. I included a picture if someone who knows more than me can chime in.
Yup, sorry for the mis-type.
That appears to be a thirdgen master cylinder with an -4AN style braided line.
perhaps that perfect little combo would happen to be for sale?!
Haha well I might sell it with the whole car
Originally Posted by Tibo
That appears to be a thirdgen master cylinder with an -4AN style braided line.
That's what I thought, so that would make it stock 3rd gen pedals with stock master cylinder, and a conversion line I bought from Hawk's.
Clutch engagement doesn't feel unnatural or weird, grabs at about the half way point.
So what do y'all think my best approach should be? I was going to go third gen pedals with 4th master reservoir and braided line. I found a whole assembly for 180$ new and a post from this sight saying all I need is a 3/8 clevis pin to make them work together, but maybe a little mod to pin location tho.
but as you just help me explain lt Vs Ls t56 there are a couple differences and enough to swap parts a converted lt1 trans is about same cost as a ls1 t56
And it's difference enough to be a deciding factor on what route they go some are intimidated by those major DIY projects trans engine etc others send it of and pay someone and then some dont want to bother and just swap a drop in so there's enough to decided if you want one and other and how deep you want to be involved in a swap
The drilling is for stock lines I know for sure the LT1 needs drilling not required but it takes like 2 secs to do your just enlarging the hole same as ls1 but forgot if it's really needed if the issue was resolved because many just upgrade to ticks unit
Lt1 trans go from low 1300 to as high as 2k plus depending on condition and upgrades
Ls1 trans go for 1800 to 2k plus depending on condition and mods
Originally Posted by mcgarnicle
The only difference is the output shaft, front plate, and bellhousing. You can get all parts for around $600 new.
I used my stock 3rd gen pedals, master cylinder, and a line I bought from Hawk's (don't remember exactly, but it was the braided line with -4AN connector off the master cylinder). It didn't fit exactly, but I didn't need to drill anything out just used some sandpaper to loosen the tolerances so that it would fit and used the same lock pin, been trouble free for over 2 years now.
I collected parts for a long time before doing my swap, and waited for deals. Got the long block for free in exchange for work, T56 for $200 dollars, and found someone on LS1 tech with a blown motor and bought everything minus the longblock for around 1000 bucks I think? Sold every single thing I removed from my car and probably made money on my swap
Run Thirdgen pedal if don't like how high clutch is get 4th gen pedals if you gets a ticks it's adjustable doesn't matter what pedal you get it can be adjusted to your liking... pedal can be found at junk yard or online easy for 4th gen I personal don't think it's worth the trouble modifying 3rd gen pedal
Buy it run it..... don't like change to 4th gen or get ticks!
That's that ��
Originally Posted by randallp504
So what do y'all think my best approach should be? I was going to go third gen pedals with 4th master reservoir and braided line. I found a whole assembly for 180$ new and a post from this sight saying all I need is a 3/8 clevis pin to make them work together, but maybe a little mod to pin location tho.
Last edited by Zach/90\irocZ; 08-14-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Lt1 trans go from low 1300 to as high as 2k plus depending on condition and upgrades
Ls1 trans go for 1800 to 2k plus depending on condition and mods
When I lived in Chicago, central Illinois, and now the Las Vegas region I can find LT1 T56 for 800-1200. LS T56 are about the same but with all of the variations it can take longer to find the correct variation. Surprising that they command that much in California.
So I bought all f body accessories, but I'm going to keep the truck pull out accessories being that I own a Yukon. Is there anything I can sell to recoup some money? Or is more of a pain to try to sell the less desirable truck intake/harness/ecm. I'm keeping my stock engine and trans, being that it took me to the dirt ***** house that took my flower, my senior prom in 2007, and was there when I commuted to LSU. Memories make me second guess my swap!!!
08-03-2017, 07:15 PM
