Blade09

Okay, so let me apologize in advance because I'm sure this post is going to be a little scattered. I've been scratching my head for a while now.

Background:
-'91 RS that I had the factory harness modified for MAF TPI and installed HSR 355
-355 met untimely demise at the hand of a frozen block

Currently:
-383 Stroker with HSR (32 lb injectors from southbay)
-730 ECM and (expensive) AUJP memcal
-Repinned modified harness to SD

All tuning and datalogging equipment bought from Craig Moates:
-GP1 adapter kit and a 10 pack of 27SF512 chips
-Burn 2 programmer
-TunerPro RT


So I put the 383 in over the summer and was originally trying to frankenstein the memcal and knock circuit from the MAF setup into the SD ECM using what I thought would be an acceptable approach. No dice, in November I got fed up with that not yielding any real results while tuning.

Now, I am far from a tuning expert, but I was communicating with TunedPerformance for most of that time and he was unsuccessful in tuning the car as well. I trust his abilities so I figured I must have a different issue.

I broke down and purchased the nearly $200 AUJP memcal and rewired/swapped to the correct knock sensor and circuit. Not seeing the constant knock retard that I was before, but the car continues to idle at nearly max rich 90/111 while idling, which makes no sense because I also installed an AEM wideband that reads 18+ AFR under the same conditions.

Long story short, this past weekend I got fed up and just put the stock memcal into the ecm without the adapter (something I never bothered to do before since Brian had supplied me with a base tune) and it ran way *better*. With any tune I attempted the car stumbled, the fueling was always reading some random value that didn't seem to completely correlate with anything, and it had know part throttle power. With the stock it was substantially more responsive and even though the fuel curve is obviously way off, it drove worlds better than the supposed "correct tune" for my setup. Granted the INT and BLM were hovering around 120/120 it was way better than my tune and the WB settled down to reading about 13.0, which I think would correlate with the INT and BLM.

So I then went and programmed a chip with the AUJP bin and it ran god awful, like it was literally puffing black smoke for the 5 seconds I let it run.

My first question is, am I missing something? I am under the impression that if I connect the stock memcal to the GP1 adapter and burn the stock tune to a chip and plug it into the socket, I should have the same effect as the stock memcal being in without the adapter... Why would the two methods yield such drastically different results...

If any of that needs clarification (I'm sure it does), don't hesitate to ask. I'm tired and frustrated so I'm just trying to see what you guys might be able to suggest. I'd like to actually tune this car some day and be able to enjoy it!

EDIT: With anything other than the factory AUJP Memcal the car throws a code 41 as soon as it fires. I thought I had mentioned that but apparently I left it out...

Thanks in advance!
-Dan

ULTM8Z

Unless something is wrong with the GP1 adapter... it's a really simply device... just a one to one correspondence between the pin on the chip you insert to the pin that interfaces to the factory memcal.

Have you contacted Moates?

Blade09

That's what I was thinking. I actually forgot to bring the socket with me to work, I was going to check all of the solder joints and pin continuity.

I went to contact Moates a couple days ago and it looked as though the entire site was down. Just noticed it was back up. I suppose that is the next step. I just can't wrap my head around where I am screwing this up. Programming a chip through TunerPro is more or less idiot proof (I think) and the socket is simple itself. There just aren't many places I could be doing something wrong.

I went through 20+ tunes with TunedPerformance until I finally stopped wasting his time because we weren't making progress...

ULTM8Z

The only other thing I can think of is that you have to compensate for the 512k chips when you burn them... The location within the memory is different than in the 256k.

When I burn my 512 chips on my Minipro Programmer, I use the following settings...

From File Start Address 00000

To Buffer Start Address 08000

Clear Buffer with 0x00

Not sure how it's set up in Tunerpro, but I'd double check.

If the bin data is not in the right location within the PROM memory, you'll have problems...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The zif comes off the g1 and creates a better connection. You could then use a hdr1 to program off the g1.

Blade09

Moates suggested checking the same thing..

In tunerpro you can set the start/end addresses of both the chip and the buffer. Per your comment and Dave from Moates I appear to be using the correct addressing. I also borrowed the stock AUJP bin from your signature just in case the one I had was compromised in some way and still experienced a much different result than with the stock memcal.

Dave also confirmed that if programmed with the factory bin they should run identically.

I intend to remove the zif and just solder the chip in when I get it ironed out, but the zif is just far too convenient for this back and forth process I'm in now lol.

Still in communication with Moates, will update if I figure anything out.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I think the starter tune was axcn based with injector constant changed and changed sa tables.

ULTM8Z

Frankly I'd just upgrade to an Ostrich emulator. You'll wonder "why the hell" you didn't do it earlier!! Once you have it the way you want, then burn your chip.

I literally pull over to the side of the road, make a change while the car is still running, then start driving again.

Blade09

Hey guys, just an update. I've been dealing with Moates and TunedPerformance offsite, but I didn't want to forget about the thread.

No progress yet, have tried two ECMs, multiple bins, tried removing the zif socket and verified the addresses in TunerPro.

I'm still scratching my head as to why my chips are throwing a code 41 with the stock bin. I even switched back to a stock 8D xdf, from the version I was using with the extended VE tables etc.

Seriously starting to lose hope. There aren't that many other things that could be wrong. I'm hoping that any day now I'll stumble across some really dumb mistake I've been making or something...

Will update if I find anything else out.

ULTM8Z

The only other thing I can think of at this point is a defective Burn2 programmer.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

baby steps like aujp , vats disabled and injector constant changed should make a big difference in running. I know we have worked on ve and set the cid. But just a few changes should produce good results.
I have had issues with my burn 2 where you do a file and make your burn double check bye doing a read and save then do a tuner pro compare and the file is corrupted. I’m not sure why this happens but a few more flash and burns and it’s correct. Maybe that’s what’s going on with yours.
My pp3 does a perfect burn every time and even has a check feature to check the buffer against the prom data .

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The AUJP(?) MEMCAL isn't plugged into the header correctly. Code 41 is a cylinder select error. Which the ECM firmware reads the cylinder count setup from the ECM hardware and it doesn't match the PROM calibration cylinder count.

As for the AUJP MEMCAL, are you sure it is a real AUJP MEMCAL?

RBob.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

As for being a real aujp. The knock board has letters and numbers on it. A real aujp has the second digit is a R .

ULTM8Z

My minipro programmer has been very trouble free too

Dominic Sorresso

Truer words have never been spoken! 👍👍

Blade09

Hey all, I apologize for not being very responsive as of late. Life has been keeping me very busy.

I was working with Moates support and they finally just had me send the g1 adapter back to be checked a few weeks ago. Turned out that it did actually have a bad solder joint somewhere. I had checked that previously but I guess I missed one. Either way, the post office lost it when they sent it back to me. Great customer service though, they sent another right to me after I messaged them about it. Sadly, it had no real effect on my issues.

I am starting to think that it has to be my Burn2 or I am somehow doing something stupid with Tunerpro... But I couldn't fathom what that is because its a fairly simple program and I have even gone step by step with Dave from Moates just to sanity check my programming process.

I have both programmed the factory AUJP bin on my chip and verified it with the moates programmer app built into tunerpro and even read it back, all of which appeared to be successful. Yet somehow its still reading a bad tune in the car?

Any info on these alternate programmers you guys are referencing? I only ever knew of Moates equipment.

Blade09

I'll verify for sure the next time I have it in my hand. I purchased from a recommended TGO member at a pretty steep price so I hope it is a true AUJP. But I have decent faith in it being good since the car runs much better and throws no codes with just the AUJP memcal connected sans the adapter and chip.

ULTM8Z

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-insights.html

Let me PM you with another idea...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I think it’s now down to the burn2 and tunerpro rt. I’m confused if it’s tunerpro I have tuned without issue. The only other alternative I can think of is tunercat. It’s $70 for tc and $20 for the definition. I use booth and prefer to for doing ve the 3d chart is easier to smooth.

Blade09

So its been a few weeks, thanks USPS! but I finally got a chip with the factory aujp bin on it from ULTM8Z to compare against, and to my dismay it acted the same as mine did when installed. In a way, I'm happy to know that I wasn't messing up the simple process of programming but now I am extra confused because that means I'm back to a car related problem not the software/tuner.

ULTM8Z said he validated the chip in his car before he sent it, so I should reasonably believe it would work in mine as well. But the same effect as my chips I tried... super rich afr, 0 throttle response, chugging and smoking and a code 41 immediately. I'm literally wondering if I'm like not pressing the adapter into the pin socket properly or something... I have a 730 and an AUJP memcal that work fine together, tuning is just off. My chip added into the mix and all hell breaks loose.

Despite reasonable confidence that I pinned the harness correctly, I'm going to start the process of verifying my wiring this evening. I'm also going to remove the ecu from the car and 100% verify that I am installing everything perfectly on the table.

Will report back with findings..

ULTM8Z

Here are the markings on my AUJP chip that I bought from GM a while ago. You can compare against the one you have.

Blade09

ULTM8Z

Unlikely as it seems, all fingers seem to be pointing at the chip adapter...

factory memcal works in both of our cars.

Any burned chip works in my car with my chip adapter including the one I sent you.

no burned chip works in your car with your chip adapter.

one other thing you could try is burning a chip and mailing it to me. I'll email you my latest bin. Burn it onto the chip I sent you and mail it back to me. If it runs the same as the chip I'm currently running then I think it narrows the problem down to your chip adapter.

if my car runs crappy, then it must be something in the programming...

Dominic Sorresso

Don’t kid yourself. I have had that happen more than once. Its a real possibility.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I think this is the second g1 that he has got. The first had a bad solder joint.

ULTM8Z

yeah that's why I said I thought it was unlikely... but hey... stranger things have happened...

Dominic Sorresso

I had one for years on an Ostrich setup and then things started going wrong. Stuff happens.

Blade09

I actually ended up getting the original new piece after Moates sent me a second one. So now I have two new ones. I don't remember if I even bothered trying the third one. I'll swap them and check. I meant to bring them to work with me to check the solder joints. I have access to a full rework station if there is a cold joint and I can easily fix it.

I'm just scratching my head. I'm not missing some incredibly simple installation step am I? Remove factory memcal, insert into header on G1 with pins aligned all the way to the end of the memcal (opposite of the aujp chip, leaving that chip unconnected) and then press the adapter into the ecm aligned with the same orientation as the factory memcal.... then just insert the burned chip?

Seems so simple..

ULTM8Z

I usually put the burned chip on the adapter prior to inserting everything into the ECM. Though I'm not sure what difference that order would make.

Only other thing is to make sure the little raised keyway on the plastic memcal body (at the midpoint) is oriented toward the notch on the adapter.

Blade09

So I ran home and grabbed the two G1s on my lunch break. Every pin had solid continuity.

Back to the drawing board...

ULTM8Z

Go back to my post #23 above regarding mailing me my chip back... that'll officially close the loop on the prom burning vs equipment I think...

Blade09

Alright, I should be able to do that tomorrow or Friday. PM me you shipping info.

Blade09

Sent ULTM8Z his chip back today. Hopefully that will prove I am at least burning the chip correctly.

In the mean time, does anyone have any thoughts on what I can check that could make the car act differently with my chip? I already verified that I am fully inserting the g1 correctly and all of the traces/pins on both of my g1s have good continuity. The chips verify fine in TP and can be read back perfectly. Yet I still get a code 41 with anything but the aujp memcal installed.

And I apologize for asking the same question over and over but I seriously don't even know where to look anymore. Unfortunately my pup needs surgery soon so I can't even justify spending much on the car right now. Not that I would even know where to throw my money..

Dominic Sorresso

ULTM8Z

Have you tried this reversal of installation order yet? Again, seems like a stretch, but I've seen enough wacky things happen (especially to me! ), I'm not about to rule anything out at this point....

Blade09

ULTM8Z

Chip arrived yesterday. I'll give it a shot either today or tomorrow.

ULTM8Z

Just put the chip in the car and fired it up. Ran equivalently to when I burned AUJP on it myself... starts up and runs smooth.

Seems like that officially rules out your tuning process/equipment.

Blade09

Sorry for the slow response, for some reason I didn't get my usual notification when you replied.

I'm glad to hear that I am at least programming it correctly. So why the hell doesn't it work in my car?!

I still have the second 730 that TunedPerformance sent me to test against. I'll combine that with my second g1 and try again. I know I have but I'll do it again just to 100% rule the ECM out as well. if it still doesn't work I guess I'll start checking all the wiring. There just isn't much else to these cars...

ULTM8Z

The only thing I could suggest is calling Jet or Hypertech and see if they'll sell you a chip adapter by itself... it'll rule out Moates' adapter or indict it...

Blade09

I'll reach out and see if they're willing to assist. In the mean time, I know we have already done this a couple times, but would you mind step-by-stepping out how you installed it? It sounds dumb, but I want to literally recreate what you did where it worked. All of the parts seem fine, maybe my installation process is the culprit. I've tried every order of operations that I can think of, but maybe I'm still doing wrong..

ULTM8Z

1.) Chip adapter out of the car with no chip or PROM on it
2.) Install PROM onto chip adapter. Ensure the notches and on the PROM and the adapter line up (see below... that notched out section in the middle of the adapter lines up with a raised key-notch on the PROM).
2.) Install chip onto chip adapter (ensuring the little U-groove on the chip is oriented to the U-groove on the chip adapter
3.) Install chip/adapter assembly into the ECM


BTW, it's a little pricey, but they have this adapter on ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/87-Camaro-F...cAAOSwFe5Xxjv1

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Here’s one for cheaper
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Hypertech-152...ty!97007!US!-1

Dominic Sorresso

FYI, I just ran into an adapter issue I was using w a new Ostrich 2 I had installed. Ran fine and then BOOP, the SES lifht flickers on and then off. Motor stumbles. My radar goes UP. Did it a second time but continued to run. Got to the garage and checked seating of prom. Went out again. This time the motor just plain shut down while idling at a light when SES flicked on.

Went back to home base. Burned a new prom and installed w/o Ostrich. Problem solved. I ordered a new adapter from Craig.

Blade09

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. Unfortunately my puppy dog just had a very expensive surgery yesterday so basically all funding for the car is gone for the near future. She is definitely more important than the car.

But I did have a few minutes over the weekend and I wanted to make an observation that I don't know if I've made explicitly clear yet...

The car definitely reacts to the prom I burn, because it won't idle at all when I program a base aujp but it will sit and idle if I put one on adjusted for my setup. Now every chip has its own issues, for example once the car warms up with the adjusted tune it tries to idle at 18-19:1 afr but still drops the Int/BLM super low. But its definitely different depending on which tune I used.

Still got the code 41 though... So my new question is, what would cause it to sort of use the tune I am giving it but still have issues? I already verified with ULTM8Z that my chips are programming fine.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The MEMCAL isn't plugged into the adapter correctly. Also, double check the MEMCAL socket on the ECM, make sure that none of the pins are bent over.

RBob.

ULTM8Z

I'm with RBob... there's something going on with the connection between the adapter, chip, memcal, ECM, etc...

Just a couple of other thoughts after reading back through this thread...

TunedPerformance said earlier...

This comports with the photo that I posted of my AUJP. You had said earlier that your resistor pack has different markings. Are you absolutely positive you have a real AUJP?

Also, I think you should backprobe the ECM harness with a multi-meter to ensure the re-pin from MAF was done correctly.

http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injec...20(ecm#1227730)

There's something (or some combination of somethings) that's resulting in a very unlikely scenario.

Blade09

I missed TunedPerformance's remark on this somehow... Now I am wondering what the **** I have here and who's gonna get a talking to if its not an AUJP... Can anyone identify for real from the photo below? I took it for granted it was correct because I didn't really have any way of proving it wasn't...

Not the clearest photo but it looks like the second letter there is a 'J'. This is a previous photo I took but I can check closer later..

ULTM8Z

does the "1R" have something to do with the being a 350?

I was scanning through Ebay and although I didn't see any AUJP's, all the 90-91 Corvette chips have "1R" on the resistor packs. But the non-350 Camaro chips had something else...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I’m currently out of town but I have a few aujp.
They all have a r as a second digit. I think the rest is the production date.
Example 1 as in 91 then the day of the year.
Looks like you need to install a cylinder select jumper.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...d-density.html
The netress and I believe it’s called I/o buffer chips are marked
16072665 & 16133420

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...uot-on-727-730