zya5point0

iTrader: (4)

So the other night was watching Motor Trend TV. They road tested that new Kia Stinger. Some of you younger guys might only know Kia as a lower priced alternative to cars like the Camry, civic, or cavalier. But some of us are old enough to remember the "all new 95 Kia sportage". Fast forward to today. Twin turbo 365hp awd sedan. 13.1 quarter mile?! Those of us with only bolt on L98's better be pretty sure what we can do before we rev our motor at one sitting at the red light...

no new tires

1. Who would be revving at a Kia in the first place...

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

no stock thirdgen will beat them but this has been the case with new family cars for years now. it takes a hopped up 350 at the least to keep up with average modern cars.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Yea it sucks to be destroyed by a Nissan Murano. Ask me how i know

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I doubt I'd even notice a Kia sitting next to me at a stop-light.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

What would be worse? Getting beaten by a Kia, or a Ford Focus?

If I try to compare the cars logically my Focus RS wins out every single time.

Its only when I bring sentimentality and emotion into it that I keep my GTA around.

Technology is moving on. Can either accept the third gen for the Period piece it is and enjoy it stock, or modify it to keep up with the Joneses.

Jacobaxeman

Sleeper Z

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/images/smilies/yup.gif

I get smiles, thumbs up and nods almost every time I'm out driving mine.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

I think my 5.7 Tundra will beat all of my third gens off the line, but that's not why I have them.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

Vehicles like these are why our cars are enjoyed by a slim few. New cars get quicker and quicker, which is not the same as "better and better"

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I agree. I know my GMC pickup is faster than my third gen but so what. Not much was fast in the eighties and people have to take that in consideration. Sedans and minivans weren't outrunning these cars in that time period.If I wanted a fast car id buy a new Camaro but fact is I don't like them and I know how to make mine fast if I want to later down the road. I love third gens for many reasons and probably most because that's what I drove in my best years..damn they were fun.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

New cars get quicker and quicker, more comfortable, more tech, they get 30mpg..

But to quote comedian Bill Burr, “they all look like dinner rolls”

If you go to a cruise night around here and park an IROC next to a new Camaro and a 68, the IROC will draw a bigger crowd. You stand out driving a Thirdgen and no one cares about the 0-60 time. I’d rather cruise around in my IROC than a brand new 10 second 1/4 mile car.

What good is a 10 second car when there’s just cops everywhere now really cracking down.

Growing up we had a strip where anyone with a fast car would go cruise and there was a certain light people would do a 1/4 mile race or go from a rolling start. It was a wide, straight two lane section with breakdown lanes and guard rails. We would go up and down probably a 4 mile strip and the McDonalds looked like a car show every nice summer night. Many of the parking lots had fast, loud cars.. some came to show off, some came to race.

I had heard the police aggressively shut that down.. it had gone on for decades before that. I had heard of people getting arrested and their cars taken on flatbeds..

Back then IROCs, Formulas and Mustangs owned that strip.. we started seeing imports with nitrous showing up. I mean I knew a guy who could beat all the Mustangs and Camaros in his white Corolla with no interior and Nitrous.. but who wants to drive that?

If your car looks awesome, sounds awesome, turns heads (but more importantly turns your head), is fun to drive and can put you in the seat stoplight to stoplight, what else you you need?

Out of those five things I think the Kia only gets 1 or maybe 2 out of 5.

But it is cool to acknowledge how quick these dinner roll cars are getting. Quick and torquey are different feelings as well. A thirdgen kinda feels like it could pull a stump out of the ground to me whereas new cars feel like they couldn’t tow 500lbs.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

As others have said, it has been that way for a while. Stock and bolt-on Thirdgens aren't very fast. But swap in an LS or turbo or build a good 350/383/400+ and you have one fast car. Hell, ten years ago Traxion proved that a bigger cam, mini-ram and AFR heads can get you 11 secs in the 1/4 mile.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Man I loved that car.

pancherj

We're all getting old...I've owned Traxion's car for ten years! LOL

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

What's it like nowadays?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I think Tim's car went 11.66 on motor w/the miniram and Joe Overton cam back then if memory serves me correctly, but Justin went 11.53 with a few more cubic inches, Bret Bauer cam and HSR. Seemed fast at the time, but today it's really not saying much because there are CRX's w/their naturally aspirated four bangers running just as fast, if not faster than that. This might be why Tim abandoned his '90 Iroc and went with a Subaru. Either that or he had Fast and Furious fever lol...

- Rob

pancherj

The car has been in purgatory for 6 years! After several hundred passes, the stock shortblock gave up a piston. I redid the interior, rebuilt the motor and added a TH350 with a 4800 stall converter. I have dreams of racing it again...but my kids keep me pretty busy.

zya5point0

iTrader: (4)

I've just always liked the old vs new discussion. Look how back when our cars were new they compared them to the 60's "muscle" cars. I know are cars are slow by comparison to the new stuff. I won't ever care if either of my cars are the fastest at the track. But I will always have the desire to be faster than the guys that read the brochures and watch motor trend TV, then bring their 400hp Lexus SUV or (in this case) Kia sedans, to the track and beat up on those of us that still love our 80's hotrods. A little childish? Yea, I'll admit that. Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional

KyleF

This is why I have my dream cars from High School and a Scat Pack as a DD.

mrestrictrplate

iTrader: (2)

……..There is always someone faster

Firebirdwade

There is no way that a modern car with more than 200hp is less than 30k. So imagine how fast your third gen would be if you sunk 30k into it!

SteelDirigible

iTrader: (2)

The new Camaro with the turbo 4 cylinder is 275 HP for $26k. And you can be out the door with the 1LE package for $32k. I'm sure I could find lots of more boring cars with 200+ under 30k

Firebirdwade

Okay, yeah And you can get a 305hp dodge truck for 27k.

I paid 3 grand for my firebird, $20k is still enough to play with if I wanted to smoke soccer mom suv's and family sedans.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

...and they're getting the 4-cyl Turbo Camaros to do 10 sec 1/4 mile times

I met a guy at a cruise night with a 4 cyl turbo running 12.2 with the slips to prove it. He had done some tuning but had't put a ton of money into it yet.. Hoping to get 11s next season..

And that's a brand new car with brand new paint, interior, modern conveniences...

No way you can fully restore a third gen and modernize it while making it a 12 sec or lower car for $20k..

IMO thirdgens are simply for cruising and enjoyment.. I mean, if its your dream to take on modern muscle at the track, go for it, but you'll spend more than some of those guys with brand new tuned low option cars..

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You don't need it. A used Fiesta ST has 197hp and weighs less than 2700lbs. It also handles amazingly while being a 4 door hatch back. Tiny car, big punch. You can pick these things up for around the 12-14k mark all day long. You can get every single option on a new one and stay at 24k. Yes, that's 24k for a pocket rocket that is still wrong wheel drive, but they are really fun to drive and pass the daily driver needs. They are a do everything sort of commuter car.

You can get Inline 4 or v6 Camaro's for less than 30k. There is the Ecoboost Mustang too. You can get Focus ST or Golf GTI under 30k easily. There are lots of options.

The Kia Stinger is proving its worth. That TTv6 has a lot of easy mod potential. Bolt-ons and tune alone and they are making 400AWHP+ which is pretty nuts if you think about it. I would definitely consider one if I were looking for a daily driver GT type car. Though I'd also heavily look at the Chevy SS too, a Manual SS could be fun as hell.

Firebirdwade

I agree that there is no way to restore, soup up, and modernize a third gen for that price, but if speed in a straight line was your only goal, I think it could be done. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to race any new cars, my Firebird is purely for cruising and tinkering.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Weenies.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I don't know man I just can't get into turbo 4cylinders and such they just all sound like s#i+ to me. I love the sound of a V8 . I'm not even terribly fond of the LS engines even though I know they are superior to the old stuff in every way but the looks department.. I will take a Gen 1 small block any day. Guess I'm a dinosaur.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I get a lot less bothers from the stock guys now ever since I built the engine. Its very rare that anyone with something to challenge the GTA even tries to start something.

The guys who do try to start something when I'm driving the GTA are all in cars that have zero chance even against my Focus RS and its not even worth the gas.

I think the car sounds healthy enough. I feel bad when I start it up at 6:30AM to go to work.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Turbo torque is addictive and very similar to the way a TPI engine responds. There is some lag, but most modern cars have turbo's sized to produce boost basically off-idle.

My Focus ST's turbo was like a light switch at 1600rpm well below any cruising speed with its gearing. Floor at 1200rpm and meh, nothing, but right around 1500rpm it would transform. And the boost would shoot through the roof. The torque would become V8 levels before 2000rpm. My Focus ST made 230whp and 300wtq with just a tune. It made 228whp stock, but the torque was less at 270wtq. If I had bolt-ons it would have made closer to 330-350wtq and near 300whp.

My Focus RS has more turbo lag because the turbo is larger and the car makes about 300-320whp stock, with about the same in torque. Add a tune and the car will make anywhere from 350 to 380whp and easily 400wtq with zero hard parts, all just a tune.

I admit, I'm not in love with a 4 cylinder's exhaust note. But the RS doesn't sound like a *****, its got a deeper note, but not as deep as a boxer. The engine is actually extremely quiet inside the car. I could hear a mouse fart.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

this is what just the $30.000 eng looks like..sorta a ZL1 Big block.. with out power adders and good fuel makes 4 times what the stock LT1 did.and is 54LBS lighter...

but whos stopping at only 4 times the HP

GEN Xer

iTrader: (1)

Back when I was in Jr high I saw this animated movie- I think it was Orwells 1984, and the actual year I saw it may have been 84. Anyway one scene that has been embedded in my mind since then was one of a neighborhood street where every single house looked the same every yard, car- every family had 2 kids etc it was the Orwellian nightmare... The reason it stayed in my mind was because it scared the living crap out of me. . Anyway- fast fwd 30~ years and every day I drive around watching people driving cars that all are almost identical in overall features- outside of a handful of cars that stand out like a late Camaro or one of those Dodge reruns. For the most part I can't really discern one car from another. They all look like the same foreign POS- and it makes me sick lol. Third gen's are 10x the car than any KIA or any of the other modern throw away cars- I don't care if they're faster or not. They're still just an anonymous modern throw away car that will never carry any real value in the hearts of Americans- or anyone else who holds individuality high in their set of principles.

That's just a little food for thought when you guys are driving around thinking about those KIA's and other tin cans.

vinny R

From a fellow dinosaur I am with you on this. There is no substitute for the SBC sound period! Especially the TPI has it's own note that is music to my ears.
No offence to you all that own these fast\, well handling shiet boxes, but they are all BIC lighters!. Where will they be in 30 yrs? do you think they will be talking about the 2016 Focus SVT in 2048? I don't think so.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

nhgator

I have a 405 hp pickup for work and a v-6 Charger that will destroy my T/A in a drag race,but I know what I drive every nice summer day.

vinny R

I do agree that the build quality of the 3rd gens are questionable at best, but I love them anyways. Nostalgia is not my issue though, it is my Pig-headed stubborn opinion of 4 cylinder rice burning cars. Or the american cars trying to impersonate these ricers. Never liked them and never will, even though I do respect the performance of these cars, I grew up during the era that the nV8's where being so smogged out in favor of these 4 banger euro/japan style cars. They were kinda forced on me that this is what you have to buy if you wanted something fun to drive. Nostalgia reminds me that the 1980 Z28 had 160 HP...not a good memory to stroll down that lane.
The KIa Stinger is a nice style that I do like...but I would never own one,

Yeah the focus will still be talked about, that was a bad anology on my part, but I feel there won't be a following of those cars like we have with 3rd gens.

Firebirdwade

These new cars may be fast, and well handling, but IMO are still no where near as fun to drive as a third gen. You feel separated from the road, with your stereo cranked up and your A/C, cushy seats, noise insulation. My Firebird, however, it rattles and shakes, the steering is tight, the throttle is crisp, you can hear the engine and trans, suspension working. There is no throttle management that doesn't look like my foot. It's not as fast, doesn't handle as well, but feels way more intense on the road. Kind of like a huge *** go cart!

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Thirdgen + LS + single turbo will be faster than anything under $50K
Thirdgen + LS + twin turbo will most likely beat anything under $100K
Thirdgens can absolutely handle as well as or better than any newer cars, remember when a regular guy in a fourthgen made a 8:03 lap at Nurburgring?
"Modernizing" is a subjective term. Much of the added conveniences now a days I do not like and I loathe the day when one of the items needs fixing.
Those small, relatively lightweight, front wheel drive, 4 cyl turbo cars are fun in confined spaces like city traffic or small autocross lots but outside that they lose their appeal.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Try a more realistic perspective: Most 3rd gen F-bodies are at that 30 year mark of yours, and they made millions of them. They're scarce now, and I'd wager the vast majority have rotted away, been crushed, or both. If someone told me that less than 10% of total production were still registered, I wouldn't be shocked. And if ICE vehicles are still permitted on public roads in 30 years, I bet those cars will share a similar albeit smaller following due to sheer production.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

^^^I actually beg to differ...Look at what GM was doing with things like the S10 & S10 Blazer (Typhoon and Scyclone), the Bravada, and the Astro/Safari van back in that time period. The S10 SUVs and M-vans had the CPI 4.3 Vortec making ~200 HP, with an AWD system and 3.73s in both ends. Knowing what those vehicles run like I can say a 305 TBI car was going to get beat, much less a 3.1 V6 car.

I will also say my mom had an older Acura Legend with the 3.2 V6. That car would have easily eaten a non G92 automatic LB9 TBI car. It was the first car I ever drove that got me addicted to speed. Slow by todays standards but would easily cruise along with the 140 pegged.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Minivans and Astrovans and such just don't get me excited. I'd rather have my L03 car any day.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

]

When you talk about the feeling of the road you are referring to what people call Driving Dynamics. Its not a statistic measurable with numbers.

Driving dynamics is the way the car talks to you about its balance. Letting you know how much grip is left to use, the imperfections in the road. And new cars are so much better at it than old cars. Some of it is age, slop in old dry rubber bushings and such that refreshing with OEM parts fixes. The bulk of its improvements and increase R&D over suspension & steering geometry as well as better materials to remove unsprung mass.

I can have fun in both. But the TransAm requires much more concentration and effort to do the same things the RS does natively, this isn't including the techno-wizard behind the curtain that steps in when you go overboard.

Anyone who drove my RS would step out of the car with a mile wide smile on their face. Its extremely rewarding to drive.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

So it's very obvious that you love your RS, you discuss it quite often on the Thirdgen boards. If you feel it's faster and drives better and you have more fun driving it, OK. I also have a Mazda 3 and I prefer to drive it over the Camaro in city traffic or a smaller autocross course. But to keep everything in perspective and to bring up my earlier post, a member on LS1tech with a fourthgen, a regular amateur guy like us with typical bolt-on suspension upgrades with minimal driving instruction, ran an 8 min 3 second lap at Nurburging and according to the internet the fastest time I could find for a Focus was on Wikipedia and it was the 2016 Ford Focus RS which ran an 8:06.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I use the RS for comparison because I've got significant seat time in it. About 38 thousand miles worth so it make it easy to compare between the two cars.

As for the 4th gen Ring time, I've seen that video. It runs closer to a 8:16, and only the Bridge to Gantry track layout while the RS uses the full lap setup. The Full Lap is nearly 1 mile longer than Bridge to Gantry, and very roughly 20 seconds slower due to the extra distance. There is the Flying Lap, Full Lap, and B2G timing methods. Flying lap is basically full lap but with a running start. Any lap obtained on a regular Touring day is Bridge to Gantry as they do not allow full use of the track for safety. And its a decent lap and he does well. I take my sweet time warming up to a new track since I can't afford to just drop the cash to replace either car.

You can see its missing interior bits and you can follow the thread for the the build. That car has some weight loss and comes in around 3150lbs with suspension and engine bolt-ons while riding on R888 tires. If there is a different one, I haven't seen that thread. This is the thread if you are curious: https://ls1tech.com/forums/road-raci...er-inside.html

Firebirdwade

I am not referring to driving dynamics, I am referring to the overall feel of the car in a different sense. As I said, I know from experience that my Firebird doesn't handle as well as newer cars. I'm referring to the complete lack of isolation from the road and the car. The suspension sounds, engine sounds, feel of the pedals, the manual trans, road noise, feel of the wheel, etc. it's just so different than a new car, and it's really what I prefer.
Don't get me wrong, I'd jump at the chance to get behind the wheel of a newer handling machine, I just like the extra immersion and excitement of my old, far from stock, creaky F-Body.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

You're missing my point or you're choosing to ignore my point; An average driver in an F body that has a decent engine and the average bolted on suspension parts is still competitive with many newer, non-super-car cars.

vinny R

Yes you are right on Tibo! We are always comparing new cars to our 28 yr + cars. I never got that. The years, technology,it is all advancing and things just are getting better. The fact that with some modification our 28 yr old cars can hang with some of the newer lighter and faster cars just amazes me. Most of us on this site drive another vehicle. Most of them are much newer vehicles, Pickups, SUV's, sports cars and such. We should appreciate that newer tech but in turn we should not lose site of the tech that was our cars back in their hay day or try to compare them with vehicles that are not even in the same category We should compare Apples to Apples!

Here is my apples to apples. Since this Focus keeps coming up here is a pic of what you got in 1991 if you chose the focus over a Camaro!.



Notice the precise handling suspension with plenty of 4 banger power to get that ice cream home before it melts!

vinny R

And since the title of this post is about a Kia I don't want you to think I m picking on a Ford Focus, here is the 1991 Kia...look out for this coming up fast on your rear bumper





!

TPI-454

Try comparing new tech to new tech for a change.

Read this entire quote above then compare it to a newer Trans Am, not a thirty year old one.

Anyone who drove a new Trans Am would step out of the car and have an erection about a mile long.