DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

why do you say its the wrong platform?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hrmm.. I'm not too familiar with the old ones.. Motorhome huh? I don't think I'll ever be at that point in life.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Tube chassis cars are lighter and more purpose built. A 1,200 2500lb car can run in the 7s.

For full body cars, early 60s novas and early 70s vegas do quite well.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Track car as in drag race track? Fox bodies sadly make the best platform imo. More suspension parts available that bolt on than any other car it seems. Very light. Can do some decent builds on them in the engine bay although i dont think its as roomy as a thirdgen or a early muscle car

Finding someones roller already done is the best thing you can do but takes time and you have to travel to get it

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i mean from that angle, might as well do a rail car. are you looking to go 7's?
a third gen makes a great drag car, imo. a foxbody is 4-500 lbs lighter though. novas are light too but they are on leaf springs.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its not that hard to go 7’s in a thirdgen. Hell i was capable and i was 3750 lbs. remove some of the amenities like power steering, put on light brakes, etc drop 200-300 lbs and it would go with 1200 whp.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's actually what most of the guys do around here. Need less motor to go faster.

Nothing wrong with full bodied cars, I'm just saying if I wanted a dedicated race platform that wasn't street driven I would have chosen a different build.

Do you drive yours on the street or just track?

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You were not even close to being legal to run anywhere near 7s. We've had this discussion before, you said it didn't matter it was a "street car" and that was your "goal". What did you run, a high 8 second pass?

I still don't get how you managed to run more than one pass without getting thrown out, they don't put up with that nonsense up here.


An actual NHRA legal competition vehicle needs a lot more safety than you had, chassis cert, etc to run those ET's:

Elapsed Time (ET) of 13.50 seconds or slower:
Page | 30
 Snell 2010 (or newer) helmet mandatory for entries running 13.99 or quicker. Recommended for
entries running 14.00 or slower.
 Hood, optional. Carburetors must be covered by flash shield or scoop
 Drive shaft loop if equipped with slicks Battery hold-down
 Radiator overflow can Seat belts
 Neutral safety switch mandatory for all vehicles with an automatic transmission. If a manual
transmission vehicle was originally provided by the manufacturer with a clutch interlock switch
it must remain operational.
 Arm restraints required on open body entries.
 Check current NHRA Rule Book for additional requirements and specifications.


Elapsed Time (ET) of 11.50 - 13.49
 Snell 2010 (or newer) helmet
 Hood, optional. Carburetors must be covered by flash shield or scoop
 Drive shaft loop if equipped with slicks Battery hold-down
 Radiator overflow can Seat belts
 Roll Bar or Roll Cage for convertibles - recommended for all others.
 Window Net (vehicles equipped with a Roll Cage only)
 Transmission shield/blanket meeting SFI Specification 4.1 if the vehicle uses a modified
transmission or special converter.
 Neutral safety switch mandatory for all vehicles with an automatic transmission. If a manual
transmission vehicle was originally provided by the manufacturer with a clutch interlock switch
it must remain operational. Reverse lockout mandatory.
 Arm restraints required on open body entries.
 Screw-in valve stems for tubeless tires, front and rear, on vehicles running 11.99 or quicker;
unless OEM tire pressure monitor sensor is used.
 Check current NHRA Rule Book for additional requirements and specifications.

Elapsed Time (ET) of 10.00 - 11.49
 Snell 2010 (or newer) helmet
 Fire Jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/1 Specification
 Hood, optional. Carburetors must be covered by flash shield or scoop
 Radiator overflow can.
 Seat belts meeting SFI Specification 16.1 or 16.5 within 2 years expiration from date of
manufacture.
 Drive shaft loop Battery hold-down
 Harmonic Balancer meeting SFI 18.1 Specification (10.99 or quicker)
 Properly secured fire extinguisher recommended
 Aftermarket axles and axle retention devices (10.99 or quicker)
 Roll Bar, except on Showroom Factory Stock street driven hardtop cars and trucks 2008 and
newer. (9.99 or 135 MPH and slower)
 Convertibles, T-Tops and any car with modifications must comply with 11.49 rule, 13.49 for
convertibles.
 Window Net (vehicles equipped with a Roll Cage only) Transmission shield/blanket meeting SFI
Specification 4.1.
Page | 31
 Neutral safety switch mandatory for all vehicles with an automatic transmission. Reverse
lockout mandatory. If a manual transmission vehicle was originally provided by the
manufacturer with a clutch interlock switch it must remain operational.
 Flywheel and clutch meeting SFI Spec 1.1 or 1.2 (2 disk maximum) or cars powered by rotary
engines 13.49 or quicker.
 Flywheel shield meeting SFI Spec 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, or 9.1 required on all cars using a clutch. Cars with
rotary engines running 11.49 or quicker must be equipped with a flywheel shield made of ¼ inch
minimum-thickness steel plate surrounding the bellhousing 360 degrees extending 1 inch
forward and 1-inch rearward of the rotating clutch assembly; shield may not be notched or cut
in any way. Shield must be securely attached to frame or frame structure, may be multi-piece.
All rotary engine vehicles equipped with nitrous-oxide injection and/or turbo/supercharger
running 9.99 or quicker or 135 mph must use a flywheel shield labeled as meeting SFI Spec 6.1
or 9.1 minimum. Cars for which an SFI Spec 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, or 9.1 flywheel shield is not available
may use an SFI flywheel shield from another application bolted to a motor plate that is bolted to
the engine at all available bolt holes. See NHRA General Regulations 2:3, 2:5, 2:6, 2: 10.
 All vehicles running 10.99 or quicker must use a lower engine oil retention device.
 Arm Restraints required on all open bodied cars
 Metal screw-in valve stems unless OEM tire pressure monitor sensor is used.
 Check current NHRA Rule Book for additional requirements and specifications.


Elapsed Time (ET) of 7.00 - 9.99
 NHRA Class 3 Competition License required for all drivers running an ET of 6.00 - 7.49 seconds,
(ET/MX 7.50-9.99), an NHRA Class
 4 Competition License when running 7.50 9.99, (Snowmobile -
 ATV 7.50-9.99)
 Drive shaft loop
 Fire system (7.49 or quicker) Flywheel shield mandatory
 Harmonic Balancer meeting SFI 18.1 Specifications
 Snell 2010 Full-face (or newer) helmet. Goggles prohibited. Parachute required for all cars
running over 150 MPH
 Two parachutes required for all cars running over 200 MPH
 Jacket and pants for all cars, must meet SFI 3.2A-5 Specifications and gloves meeting SFI 3.3/1
specifications.
 Roll cage mandatory for all cars running 9.99 seconds or quicker.
 Chassis Certification mandatory for all entries running 9.99 seconds or quicker.
 Seat belt meeting SFI 16.1 specifications within 2-year expiration from date of manufacture.
 All vehicles must use a lower engine oil retention device. Flexplate meeting SFI 29.1
specifications.
 Flexplate shield meeting SFI 30.1 specifications. SFI 4.1 transmission blanket
 Supercharger strap meeting SFI 14.1 specifications on Roots type when alcohol is used as fuel.
 Neck collar meeting SFI 3.3 specifications. Head and neck restraint system meeting SFI 38.1
mandatory on any car running 200 MPH or faster or running 7.49 or quicker.
 Arm Restraints meeting SFI 3.3 specifications (11.99 or quicker) on open bodied entries.
 Check current NHRA Rule Book for additional requirements and specifications.


Even my slow-*** lame supercharged thirdgen should really have aftermarket axles, c-clip eleminators, a roll bar, SFI belts, an engine diaper, and a transmission shield. (in addition to the SFI balancer, SFI flexplate, driveshaft loop, screw in valve steps that I already have) just to run faster than 11.00..

And once you put a bar and SFI belts in it, it's potentially dangerous on the street (unless you wear a helmet all the time).

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Safety has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of whats a better drag platform or discussing how hard it is to go 7’s in a car. Making power is fairly easy these days

Get off that soap box who cares what my track allowed me to do.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ahh, got it. So it's easy to build a 7 second car that can't legally go 7 seconds.

Any idiot can stick a 1200+ hp motor in a car and flog it until it explodes. Building an NHRA legal 7 second thirdgen isn't "easy" or cheap, and you haven't done it.


-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You are clueless and mistaken

Only thing my car was missing was the 25.5 cage which basically was few bars away as mine was 8 pt. 25.5 is a 10 pt style with a few floor bars and a funny car halo.

A cage is not hard to build just expensive. 6grand plus for a 25.5

Besides that, a window net. And a fire suit which has nothing to do withthe car itself. I had a helmet and fire jacket but not the pants.

Everything else on my car is legal. If you ever built anything other than boring bolt on cars you would know most parts are already sfi legal. I had the balancer flexplate trans shield etc

But nice try

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

How are you still a moderator. When will i be upgraded?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I recommended you as a moderator several years ago. It didn't go over well with the boss.

-- Joe

1986Z28OWNER

iTrader: (1)

And what exactly have you done other than flap your **** sucker on the internet on **** you know little to nothing about??? When was the last time your car even left the garage? It boggles my f***ing mind that your still a moderator. You're a f***ing joke. You're half the reason the power adder section is such a joke here, combined with street lethal and Project89(who thank god has stopped posting permanently it seems) this place is a joke.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Bolt on? lol. What have I ever just bolted on?

Your car wasn't legal. We've discussed it in great detail. Get over it. It was good for 11.00.

You built a cool motor, until it blew up. Maybe your next build will be cooler. I hope you invest in the safety and actually make it a legal car. Then you can continue telling people how easy it was.

I remember when you first joined here, asking all the rookie questions, trying to build a 300hp TPI. You were actually humble and eager to learn. Your short-lived twin turbo car really inflated your ego. Which is unfortunate, because you had potential to be a good contributor. I've run out of excuses for your behavior, and won't stick up for you any more.


-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

11 million in revenue this year. How about you?

3 days ago.

And your a kid that was asking me what a roller cam was just a few years ago.

P.s, I think you just violated a few forum rules. Good job, as usual.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lmao! I know you are old but putting on a fire suit is not difficult. Safety parts arent any more difficult to get or use or install than the rest of the mechanicals

Second my turbo blew up not the motor. Motor still ran when i tore down to inspect. Get your facts straight. It ingesting compressor blades and chewed up pistons but was not catastrophic. I did stress the motor as the parts were meant for 800 hp not 1300+. Slightly bent crank and rod ends but other than that it still went 8.2’s like that. Healthy it would have gone 8.0-8.1’s. It went 8.26 coasting after the 1000 ft
I sold all the motor parts except the pistons and rods because its not worth resizing the rods for someone with the price of rods today

Thirdly my behavior is only a problem with you! You are the only one I consistently have issues with and every one else knows it. I see thru your bs and call it for what its worth. I dont need or want you to stick up for me or whatever the hell that means
I have helped more ppl on this forum than most and my post count reflects that. My threads have more views than most. There is a reason for that

And lastly, yes my first years on here i was a rookie. It was 03 and i was 18! For crying out loud. You want to hold that above me to make you seem like an almighty? Gtfo. I can find some of your early posts i am sure...

I am 33 now and have done more than most, and surround my self with others who have done the same and more. I have learned a lot in those years since buying this car. Follow my build posts i went from high 12’s to 8’s in 7 yrs. whats your resume look like? I dont see the threads

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

In regards to motor sports stuff? A lot of non-thirdgens, speed boats, etc.

I have 1 third gen, and I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that I'm really not that "into it". I'm surely not claiming it's anything other than a street legal car that cannot legally go faster than 11.49.

I'm glad that your threads get views. Like I said, I hope your new build goes 7's and passes tech. Then you can tell us all how you did it, how cheap and easy it was, etc.


-- Joe

1986Z28OWNER

iTrader: (1)

Really? A few years ago? I think you have me mistaken with someone else you goof.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not sure i want to share that info here anymore

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Do whatever you think is right, Justin. Maybe you can ask the admins for your own forum? Maybe an all turbos only forum. I promise I won't subscribe to it.

I'm 100% serious. If you, Charlie, Rob, and whoever else want to split the turbo stuff off to it's own forum and run it, I'll endorse that 100% with the admins. I'll never visit it either, so you don't have to worry about having to "call out my BS".



-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

This place is slow enough on activity as it is. Think i’ll pass on that and just post in the members builds forum

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You sure? This could be a great opportunity for you to turn things around, and really represent the thirdgen world when it comes to advanced turbo builds.


-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

as already said a few times, 7's are pretty much a 25.5 away. the other safety stuff is no big deal. albeit costly.
a 25.5 third gen can be sub 3,000lb. no problem, and you can still run the stock style suspension front and rear, no need to back half it.
building a tube chassis car vs a 25.5 is many thousands of dollars difference. if i built a tube chassis car i would probably shoot for faster than 7's.

from a safety standpoint, a 7 second car that is missing a couple of bars may not cert, but it still runs 7's. is it dangerous? maybe... or maybe not. only way to know for sure would be to wreck the car. know what comes loose most of the time in dragstrip crashes? the seat.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Right, but its alot of work to make thirdgens light with the full 25 spec cages. Foxes seem to have an advantage off the bat so they get used more

But like i said earlier they just have more available bolt in parts. Suspension tuning wise they are well known and easier to dial in from the beginning imo.

But both can be stock style suspension and small tire. Nothing fancy out back is needed

And yes anything wrecking at 170+ mph is not gonna be that safe. Lol i sure dont want to experience it. Happened to a friend of mine and his cage saved him but still a rough ride.

A tube car thats 2600 lbs or so would be awesome and easy to make fast and reliable. But expensive. Thats why its best at that point to buy someones project or done race car roller as long as it checks out right and meets spec. Save thousands

Jacobaxeman

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Hey Joe you wanna see a pic of Charles? Check your PM lmao...

One look and you'll hear those inbred banjo's playing in the background. Gay AF..

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

I think this calls for a steel cage match between anesthes and 1986Z28OWNER at Wrestlemania, Street Lethal will be special guest referee.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Joe and Justin are friends, they just butt heads every now and then, but yeah, I think they should line up and get it over with and then maybe have a beer afterwards. Diggler you can learn a lot from, solid member, straight shooter. My build is nothing special whatsoever, never said it was so I'm not sure why it's being targeted by some people. Charles on the other hand is a freaking idiot lol. Think of Justin Trudeau wearing his gay socks driving in a twin turbo Camaro, boom, that is Charles lol. Dude is lucky I don't put what I have on him on the dark web, about ready to though, just feel bad for his family...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No, I have nothing personal against him. I don't care if he's the number one block washer in all of Canada, living in his mom's basement, whatever. But to come in after 5+ mo the of not posting to only swear and flame gets him a few days in the corner.

Alternatively, he could have responded in detail explaining exactly what needs to be done to build a 7 second nhra legal car, including part numbers and costs. Or he could swear, pound his chest and tell everyone how amazing he is.

If this was a competition of who had the fastest car, I'd just buy one.. I do this because I like tinkering with stuff, And I usually spend more money making something than I would have just buying the stuff. But it's fun to me.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I don't think we need to be attacking anyone personally, so let's refrain from that please. I assure you when. I woke up this morning the last thing I was thinking about was some kid from Canada that thinks I'm a whatever he said.

Actually, I was thinking of that red Ferrari I saw at the exotic car dealer down the street yesterday. Ugh. I have no self control.

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Believe me, I've held back, and will continue to hold back Joe. It'd be too easy. But yeah, he's just a little kid who contributes nothing, runs a twin turbo Camaro that he expects everyone to worship because of a number that it runs, but because of his attitude he gets the exact opposite. Right hand is definitely way stronger than his left, no doubt lol. It's what we call in the land of Capitalism dead wood. I myself don't bother with him anymore, but he felt it necessary to add my User ID to his little baby rant. Talk is cheap though Charles, I have a few friends who will wipe the floor with your Camaro running four less cylinders than you...

- Rob

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Anyways, to comment on this subject matter, I can't believe some of you are still arguing this stuff. Integra's and Civic's were never meant to run that fast, yet I know of quite a few local one's trapping close to 200-mph, and there is no aftermarket for that, it's all shop built. Would imagine a strong and solid check book could turn your third gen into whatever you wanted it to be, but you guys are all broke...

- Rob

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I don't follow people around but Orr89RocZ sure has been a class act when I see his posts. He's nicer than me.

No reply wanted or needed.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Meh, but where did it get him after fifteen years though. Justin was always straight up, and he built one hell of a car, but he was never made a moderator for some reason or another, and fifteen years later most of the OG's are gone. This website isn't what it once was, it's just an area to showcase a handful of cars that are being phased out. Hell I went to a car show a few weeks back and I seen a third gen Camaro that was built by "Team Crap Box" but they of course used another word, so save for a few people on here it seems the world can do without them. Sad but true. Hell even I just bought a new AWD BMW the other day, and I don't even want to look at my third gen anymore, let alone work on it. It's always the same members arguing about the same things on here anyway, and then when you have members like Charles acting the way he does, it's the final nail in the coffin for this website because I have had members PM me and thank me for the tuning help, but then add that they are done with this website, for those very reasons. Hell I was going back and forth with RBob on the phone the other day coming back from work, and he seemed way more passionate and concerned about the Turbo Buick boards than he does this one, and for those that remember, that is huge because RBob brought tuning here. Anyways enough of my ranting, but some of you need to see the bigger picture. There is only a handful left, and with multiple accounts, so it seems...

[/endrant]

3:55

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

Make thirdgen.org great again

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I like your wheels... Could you tell me more about those?

I was thinking of taking the torqe thrust M's off my C4 and putting them on the bird, and getting some ZR1 wheels for the C4 but I really dig the wheels on your firebird.

-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Facebook happened. Thats what killed the boards, imo. We had a local board that had huge traffic about 10 years ago. once facebook really caught on, people never even got on a computer anymore. that board has been 100% dead now for at least 5 years. Everybody was on there too, Ford/GM/Dodge/Imports.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Because Yellowbullet. People seem to think it's acceptable to say "You are fing stupid" rather than "I don't think that's the best approach, why don't you consider this".

Yellowbullet is ok with people acting like kids in a locker room, thirdgen is not.

The "senior" members grew up, had families, and sold their thirdgens a long time ago.. Loooong time ago. Very few are left.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's a good point. I started joining different facebook groups for tuning a couple years ago, and it's nothing like it is on the forums. These guys have had experience with every (aftermarket) ECM, triggering system, injectors, whatever. Even the rarest stuff, you post and you get 20 responses from guys who have played with it.

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I love that freaking man lol...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

ROH brand, RT style, 17x9 wheels out of Australia. My wheels are 20 years old. You can't buy the same thing but you can buy something similar in 18" and some funky chrome colors.

I think Group A Wheels is the only importer to the US. https://groupawheels.com

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

There are 3 moderators in the Electronics forum and none of them have logged into this site in YEARS.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I always wanted ROH snypers or whatever they were.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Three moderators in here, and two have them have been gone for years and years and years.

-- Joe

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Meacham imports Simmons wheels from Australia too. Good luck getting them to answer the phone though. I called them for 2 months and they don't answer or call back.

http://mechamperformance.com/d_docs/w_SIMg4f.html

zacharyhorn

iTrader: (1)

Well that escalated quickly.

ZZ3Astro

Thirgen Racecar platform...


Advantages:


Lighter than modern platforms
Excellent traction potential
Good visibility



Disadvantages:


No room in engine bay
Needs kmember/torque arm/rear end to provide strength and room for big power
Poor crash safety relative to modern cars
No 2008+ benefit at track
Death trap (only an issue when you get old enough to know better)


Honorable mentions (disadvantages):
No air bags
No ABS
No stability control
Really poor brakes (also only matters if you are old enough to care)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Basically, you have to re-do everything. Which is not terrible.

I dunno. I keep going back and forth. I have a 21' enclosed racecar trailer, I have a car with a blower. I just don't know if it would be fun racing a car that can only go 11.49 legally.

If I put a roll bar in it, I can't really drive it on the street. I know guys do, but even a minor accident can result in major head trauma due to the way the bars have to be routed for NHRA compliance. (vs the "looks only" bars that are far enough back that you couldn't whack your head on one).

And SFI restraints on the street would suck ***, and I'm not convinced they would pass a DOT safety inspection.


But on the flip side, it's a 1988 Firebird so it's not something anyone is gonna want to see at a car show. My wrangler handles better, so it's not like it's a fantastic driver. So I guess strip car is maybe my only option with it ?

They want $109k for that Ferarri.. It's a 2012 "California" convertible with 21k, automatic.. Seems expensive for a low-end model.



-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Typical roll bars are no where near in the way. Only the arm bar might break your arm if you get throw sideways in it but the head is no concern. Cages might be a concern with the A pillar bar but a seat belt should prevent you from coming close to that anyway

The 7.50-8.49 stuff is the scary deal. Funnycar halo around your mellon. Even with roll bar padding its a serious concern. This is why i might stay 10 pt and 8.50 legal only