Crank Pulley seal question.
#1
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Crank Pulley seal question.
So tonight i got the water pump off my engine. Been leaking and just needs to be replaced. So my concern is with the crank pulley, there is a rubber seal or O-ring under it, between the pulley and damper. It is quite a thick seal, and it had some chunks missing out of it......not sure if oil is leaking out of it, i would think not, just cannot happen. So i am wondering if i should or could, replace this seal? (While i have everything apart). I am sure the pulley will come off fairly easy, with those 3 bolts holding it to the damper. But what does this seal do? Im sure the damper is ok, but need the tool to pull that and install it.
88 IROC 350 tpi, pushing 90k miles.......Thanks!
88 IROC 350 tpi, pushing 90k miles.......Thanks!
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
There's no "seal" behind the pulley.
Sounds rather more like, your crank damper's inertia ring elastic mount has failed. If so, time for a new crank damper.
Post a pic of whatever is fornicated, and we can tell you right away what it is and what if anything you should do about it.
Sounds rather more like, your crank damper's inertia ring elastic mount has failed. If so, time for a new crank damper.
Post a pic of whatever is fornicated, and we can tell you right away what it is and what if anything you should do about it.
#3
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Ok, got some pics, not the best. There may be more than 2 sections of the ring missing. What does that ring do? Just part of the installation of the damper?
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about.
That's not a "seal". That rubber ring is the blob of spooge that loosely associates the inertia ring, which is the outer part of the crank damper with the balance holes drilled in it, to the center part of it that bolts to the crank and that the pulley bolts to. There's a large bolt in the center of it holding it to the crank. The rubber is completely trashed.
You need a new crank damper. RIGHT NOW, before it starts doing something stoooopid, like rubbing against the timing cover and wearing a hole in it.
Auto parts stores "rent" a puller/pusher set for free. USE IT. Don't try to do the job without it.
That's not a "seal". That rubber ring is the blob of spooge that loosely associates the inertia ring, which is the outer part of the crank damper with the balance holes drilled in it, to the center part of it that bolts to the crank and that the pulley bolts to. There's a large bolt in the center of it holding it to the crank. The rubber is completely trashed.
You need a new crank damper. RIGHT NOW, before it starts doing something stoooopid, like rubbing against the timing cover and wearing a hole in it.
Auto parts stores "rent" a puller/pusher set for free. USE IT. Don't try to do the job without it.
#5
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
One Man's opinion only ;
Whenever I have to remove the harmonic damper on an engine with thousands of miles on it , especially on a GM smallblock that's SO easy to remove the timing cover , I do just that , pull the cover to inspect(and likely end up replacing) the timing chain & gears , with of course the new front seal and gaskets to complete the job .
Low mileage engine ? Of course I only replace what's bad with no such "fishing expeditions" . But anything that's been together since Regan was President ? Oh yea , I have a good look around in whatever I take apart , wouldn't it just SUCK to loose a timing chain a month after going to the trouble of taking 90% of the stuff off to do the job with your harmonic damper replacement ?
Whenever I have to remove the harmonic damper on an engine with thousands of miles on it , especially on a GM smallblock that's SO easy to remove the timing cover , I do just that , pull the cover to inspect(and likely end up replacing) the timing chain & gears , with of course the new front seal and gaskets to complete the job .
Low mileage engine ? Of course I only replace what's bad with no such "fishing expeditions" . But anything that's been together since Regan was President ? Oh yea , I have a good look around in whatever I take apart , wouldn't it just SUCK to loose a timing chain a month after going to the trouble of taking 90% of the stuff off to do the job with your harmonic damper replacement ?
#6
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about.
That's not a "seal". That rubber ring is the blob of spooge that loosely associates the inertia ring, which is the outer part of the crank damper with the balance holes drilled in it, to the center part of it that bolts to the crank and that the pulley bolts to. There's a large bolt in the center of it holding it to the crank. The rubber is completely trashed.
You need a new crank damper. RIGHT NOW, before it starts doing something stoooopid, like rubbing against the timing cover and wearing a hole in it.
Auto parts stores "rent" a puller/pusher set for free. USE IT. Don't try to do the job without it.
That's not a "seal". That rubber ring is the blob of spooge that loosely associates the inertia ring, which is the outer part of the crank damper with the balance holes drilled in it, to the center part of it that bolts to the crank and that the pulley bolts to. There's a large bolt in the center of it holding it to the crank. The rubber is completely trashed.
You need a new crank damper. RIGHT NOW, before it starts doing something stoooopid, like rubbing against the timing cover and wearing a hole in it.
Auto parts stores "rent" a puller/pusher set for free. USE IT. Don't try to do the job without it.
Engine is pushing 90k miles, runs good but has been pushed. Just dont want to put alot of effort into it now, cuz it could grenade someday. Then replace everything.
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Why do i need a completely new damper? can't i just pull it off, and replace the blob of spooge? dampers dont go bad, its just a hunk of metal that has been balanced. i have no vibrations, and all the front running gear rolls smooth. Dont the new dampers come without the spooge?
Engine is pushing 90k miles, runs good but has been pushed. Just dont want to put alot of effort into it now, cuz it could grenade someday. Then replace everything.
Engine is pushing 90k miles, runs good but has been pushed. Just dont want to put alot of effort into it now, cuz it could grenade someday. Then replace everything.
A stock replacement is less than a hundred bucks.
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#8
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Why do i need a completely new damper? can't i just pull it off, and replace the blob of spooge? dampers dont go bad, its just a hunk of metal that has been balanced. i have no vibrations, and all the front running gear rolls smooth. Dont the new dampers come without the spooge?
Engine is pushing 90k miles, runs good but has been pushed. Just dont want to put alot of effort into it now, cuz it could grenade someday. Then replace everything.
Engine is pushing 90k miles, runs good but has been pushed. Just dont want to put alot of effort into it now, cuz it could grenade someday. Then replace everything.
Here you go. All narrowed down. The cheapest is $39.99
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...rder=Ascending
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 06-16-2018 at 08:47 PM.
#9
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
What a bunch of bull! Clean it up real good with Orange Clean and Oxyclean, rinse with KABOOM! and squirt some gasket glue in there. It'll be good as new!
I'm kidding. Throw that damper away, and pick up a new one. $27 at Rock Auto.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...035830&jsn=619
Look here for a 5% off coupon. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...t-codes-3.html
How can you beat that?
I'm kidding. Throw that damper away, and pick up a new one. $27 at Rock Auto.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...035830&jsn=619
Look here for a 5% off coupon. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...t-codes-3.html
How can you beat that?
#10
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
[QUOTE=NoEmissions84TA;6229431]That damper MUST be replaced. Like @NowhereFast said, it is 2 pieces bonded together, and NO you can't "FIX" it by squeezing a little Permatex in those places that it is missing. If you don't replace it, then expect the outer ring to become fully unbonded and fly through your hood like a rocket. I hope I'm not the guy it hits on the way down.
Here you go. All narrowed down. The cheapest is $39.99
Ok, i get it. Just want to make sure i am doing the right thing. I will have to rent the puller. So does NAPA stock these dampers? Kinda want to spend my $$ local, and not online.
Here you go. All narrowed down. The cheapest is $39.99
Ok, i get it. Just want to make sure i am doing the right thing. I will have to rent the puller. So does NAPA stock these dampers? Kinda want to spend my $$ local, and not online.
#11
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Even if NAPA does stock it , check carefully who the actual manufacturer is . In a LOT of instances the big brand name part and the lower dollar on line part are made right next to each other in the same factory and it's the box that it goes in that determines the price . I learned that lesson when the "A/C Delco" and "Everco" heater control valves I bought had the exact same made in Mexico stickers on them even though the supposed "A/C Delco" part cost 4X what the "Everco" part did , and of course came in a much prettier box
#12
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
So i got the 3 bolts off the crank pulley, but the pulley seems to be stuck on to the damper. So how does that come off? I wrapped on it a few times with a light hammer, but it didnt move. Does the crank center bolt also hold the pulley on? Shop manual doesnt really specify.........
#14
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Video is titled "how to replace a timing chain."
Shows the whole enchilada on how to remove and reinstall damper.
...and replace timing chain
Shows the whole enchilada on how to remove and reinstall damper.
...and replace timing chain
#15
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
I also put some penetrant spray on things......
And yes i will get the balancer install/removal tool.
#16
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
If you can get the impact wrench on it squarely, then go for it. Don't set it on max to start with. And do not install the new damper with the impact.
Now is also the time to change your timing cover seal. Don't forget to oil it.
Here is a tip. When installing the new damper, use anti-seize on the crank snout, and put a little Permatex (about a 1/2" line from the tube) about 1" inside the damper's hub all the way around the inner circumference. The keyway groove in the damper's hub can sometimes leak oil out from behind your crank pulley. The Permatex will roll along as you press the damper on and create a beautiful ring all the way around. You can then use a finger to smooth it a little if you wish.
Now is also the time to change your timing cover seal. Don't forget to oil it.
Here is a tip. When installing the new damper, use anti-seize on the crank snout, and put a little Permatex (about a 1/2" line from the tube) about 1" inside the damper's hub all the way around the inner circumference. The keyway groove in the damper's hub can sometimes leak oil out from behind your crank pulley. The Permatex will roll along as you press the damper on and create a beautiful ring all the way around. You can then use a finger to smooth it a little if you wish.
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 06-17-2018 at 10:07 PM.
#17
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Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Impact is the way to get that bolt out. You can either use an actual impact gun, or, use a REAL LONG breaker bar and a 5/8" impact socket. Put a little bit of tension on the bar in the "off" direction, and whap it real good with a hammer. Use the mass of the crank (inertia) in your favor.
Even better, you might consider this a golden opportunity to buy a battery-powered impact gun, and who doesn't like adding tools to their collection... those are INCREDIBLY handy to have, especially if you don't already have an air compressor. For around $200 you can have something that will pay for itself many times over if you do very much work on your car at all. And who knows what your time is worth; instead of struggling with trying to get stuck bolts loose, or on how to get some force on something while laying upside-down in some awkward position, you just squeeze the trigger. Get a ½" drive one, not 3/8"; and don't buy a tool just because it's cheeeep, then realize it's underpowered, or you have to buy extra $$$ batteries $$$ or whatever.
Even better, you might consider this a golden opportunity to buy a battery-powered impact gun, and who doesn't like adding tools to their collection... those are INCREDIBLY handy to have, especially if you don't already have an air compressor. For around $200 you can have something that will pay for itself many times over if you do very much work on your car at all. And who knows what your time is worth; instead of struggling with trying to get stuck bolts loose, or on how to get some force on something while laying upside-down in some awkward position, you just squeeze the trigger. Get a ½" drive one, not 3/8"; and don't buy a tool just because it's cheeeep, then realize it's underpowered, or you have to buy extra $$$ batteries $$$ or whatever.
#18
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
If you can get the impact wrench on it squarely, then go for it. Don't set it on max to start with. And do not install the new damper with the impact.
Now is also the time to change your timing cover seal. Don't forget to oil it.
Here is a tip. When installing the new damper, use anti-seize on the crank snout, and put a little Permatex (about a 1/2" line from the tube) about 1" inside the damper's hub all the way around the inner circumference. The keyway groove in the damper's hub can sometimes leak oil out from behind your crank pulley. The Permatex will roll along as you press the damper on and create a beautiful ring all the way around. You can then use a finger to smooth it a little if you wish.
Now is also the time to change your timing cover seal. Don't forget to oil it.
Here is a tip. When installing the new damper, use anti-seize on the crank snout, and put a little Permatex (about a 1/2" line from the tube) about 1" inside the damper's hub all the way around the inner circumference. The keyway groove in the damper's hub can sometimes leak oil out from behind your crank pulley. The Permatex will roll along as you press the damper on and create a beautiful ring all the way around. You can then use a finger to smooth it a little if you wish.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Even better, you might consider this a golden opportunity to buy a battery-powered impact gun, and who doesn't like adding tools to their collection... those are INCREDIBLY handy to have, especially if you don't already have an air compressor. For around $200 you can have something that will pay for itself many times over if you do very much work on your car at all. And who knows what your time is worth; instead of struggling with trying to get stuck bolts loose, or on how to get some force on something while laying upside-down in some awkward position, you just squeeze the trigger. Get a ½" drive one, not 3/8"; and don't buy a tool just because it's cheeeep, then realize it's underpowered, or you have to buy extra $$$ batteries $$$ or whatever.
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Here is a tip. When installing the new damper, use anti-seize on the crank snout, and put a little Permatex (about a 1/2" line from the tube) about 1" inside the damper's hub all the way around the inner circumference. The keyway groove in the damper's hub can sometimes leak oil out from behind your crank pulley. The Permatex will roll along as you press the damper on and create a beautiful ring all the way around. You can then use a finger to smooth it a little if you wish.
Parts should be in this weds, and i got the installer tool. Still need to source a new radiator. Thanks!
#24
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Sure, I can clarify.
A light coat of anti seize on the crank's snout (sticking out of the timing cover, where the 2 woodruff keys are) all the way around.
Squeeze out about a 1/2" long blob of Permatex on the end of your finger.
Apply it to the inside diameter of the damper's hub (end that goes on first) about 1" in all the way around the inner circumference. Your finger will cross the keyway groove.
Light coat of oil on the seal's lips and wipe the outer diameter of the hub (where the seal rides).
Now install with the puller/installer tool. Stop once the hub goes inside the seal to make sure the lips are not folded in.
If OK, continue.
As the damper is pressed on, the Permatex will roll along the inside of the damper's hub, creating a seal so that oil can not follow that keyway groove and leak out from behind your crank pulley.
I prefer the Black Max Oil Resistance Permatex.
Drawn in BLUE on the picture, the Permatex rolls into a bead here.
A light coat of anti seize on the crank's snout (sticking out of the timing cover, where the 2 woodruff keys are) all the way around.
Squeeze out about a 1/2" long blob of Permatex on the end of your finger.
Apply it to the inside diameter of the damper's hub (end that goes on first) about 1" in all the way around the inner circumference. Your finger will cross the keyway groove.
Light coat of oil on the seal's lips and wipe the outer diameter of the hub (where the seal rides).
Now install with the puller/installer tool. Stop once the hub goes inside the seal to make sure the lips are not folded in.
If OK, continue.
As the damper is pressed on, the Permatex will roll along the inside of the damper's hub, creating a seal so that oil can not follow that keyway groove and leak out from behind your crank pulley.
I prefer the Black Max Oil Resistance Permatex.
Drawn in BLUE on the picture, the Permatex rolls into a bead here.
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 06-24-2018 at 08:33 PM.
#25
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Ok, I think i got it now!! thanks much. Got a call from NAPA, my parts are in, will pick them up after work. So i have found this tube of Permatex Ultra Black, gasket maker, is this the same thing you are referring to? I also have some Loctite 598 Black high performance gasket maker. Looking forward to getting this back together!
#27
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
New damper is on!! woohoo!! step 1 of many!! i did put in a new oil seal of course......went on pretty good, check out my picture. So now my next question, is what kind of bolt torque should i use on the center bolt? and/also the 3 bolts for the crank pulley? my shop manual seems to not tell me!
Thanks again all.....
Thanks again all.....
#29
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Ok, sounds good to me. Im sure you know this, but the center bolt has a very large thick washer under it, and it holds the pulley down as well. So i have to start the 3 bolts for the pulley, then lock the center bolt down, then lastly snug up the 3 pulley bolts. and i will likely use a little anti-seize on all the bolts.
#30
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Good job. See how the Permatex created that seal? That is exactly what I was talking about.
I am saving your picture as an example to show others doing this job in the future.
You can use anti-seize on those bolts, but I usually use Blue Loctite, just so they can't vibrate loose.
I am saving your picture as an example to show others doing this job in the future.
You can use anti-seize on those bolts, but I usually use Blue Loctite, just so they can't vibrate loose.
#31
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Thread Starter
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
Good job. See how the Permatex created that seal? That is exactly what I was talking about.
I am saving your picture as an example to show others doing this job in the future.
You can use anti-seize on those bolts, but I usually use Blue Loctite, just so they can't vibrate loose.
I am saving your picture as an example to show others doing this job in the future.
You can use anti-seize on those bolts, but I usually use Blue Loctite, just so they can't vibrate loose.
Tonight i put the crank pulley on, and started looking at the water pump. Only get a little bit of time to work on it, ya know what i mean!
#32
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Crank Pulley seal question.
I have a better picture, that shows more of a closeup of the install, if you want it.
Sure. PM it to me. Or just post it here.
Sure. PM it to me. Or just post it here.
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