gpwasr10

So, I have had my Iroc for awhile now and it runs like a TOP.... Which means I should probably start taking things apart!

She is mostly Stock with the only mods being that I jumped the Fan Relay on the first stage to the fan runs all the time when they car is on (Worked Wonders for my cooling and even on very hot days she sees a little under half on the temp gauge), by-passed the Coolant lines that went through the TB and did a Hawks Ram Air Kit to the front along with some K&N Filters.

The one thing that is boring about this car is the lack of shifting. Sure the engine seems powerful enough for a good time, she incinerates tires, sounds incredible and handles like a rollercoaster (Which, frankly shocked me when I first ran her up a Canyon, it just goes wherever I point it); but it's just gas/break/gas. I originally was looking at the T56 conversion Package From Hawks, but that seems like a very expensive mod for a bunch of used parts and it also looks fairly difficult to do on my onsies... although certainly not impossible.

I then checked out some Built 700R4s from various manufacturers (That feature Manual/Auto Valve Bodies) and also some B&M slap shifters to control them. But I have NEVER driven a car with a Slap Shifter. On the surface it looks like the best of both worlds, you get the fast automatic shifts when driving in auto, but can also ratchet around the 4 gears when you want to (A bit like an old "His and Hers" shifter from back in the day).

It looks like a way easier swap (Change one 700R4 for another), and even the parts come out to be much less. So, has anyone here gone the route of the Slap Shifted Built Auto? Or is it T56 or GTFO?

P.S. My first mod will be my Ring and Pinion to a 3.42... I feel that anything higher may be to much gear for this cars lowish power band. ALso, does anyone know of a good shop in the ABQ, NM area? Just in case I run into some issues?

Thanks!

SubjectSigma

I don't have my t56 in yet but I'm 100% sure it would be more fun than a built auto. As added benefit having more gears means you can keep the engine in it's really small power band longer (assuming you have TPI). As for the price, I highly recommend you buy the parts yourself, it takes some time but if you keep your ear to the ground you can find really good deals on the parts. I bought my t56 for $400 and I've spent just about $250 on the rest of the parts. Really only the trans is a hurdle once you have that everything else is comparatively cheap.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

My 89 L98 had a 700r4 professionally rebuilt with all the goodies, and a 2400 stall converter, and a 3.27. It was absolutely night and day different. LOVED it. ....as for the shifter, I just kept it stock. Honestly, with the trans set up right, I rarely needed shift the car. When you were on the throttle, it held the gear you wanted, and when you wanted a downshift, a little quick throttle and bam, it shifted.

BUT.....all that being said, I eventually went with a T5. -then ultimately a TKO. ....and from a fun factor, there is absolutely no comparison. None at all. Manual all the way.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

One thing i will tell you, manuals are fun, but they get tiresome sometimes also especially in hills with stop signs, or heavy stop and go traffic. But the main point with an auto you will never have to worry about even if you shift it manually is, you will never miss a gear. If you build it yourself, or have someone build it, or buy one built, a performance built auto will shift faster than anyone with a manual, and you won't miss a gear and cause a huge embarrassment for yourself. Lol

Aviator857

Nothing compares to an actual manual for the driver experience.
With that said, I've only ever known people to run 700r4 with slap shifters for drag racing... not sure how well it will downshift. I would check with the builder on that if its even designed to handle downshifting. If you are going that route I would go with a 4l60e and a stand along controller. You can set your shift points, it should respond better to shift commands, etc
The Auto will for almost any driver be faster on a tight track and smoother on the mountain roads.

Depending on your experience level the auto will handle better also, if you mess up your RPM's on a shift coming out of the Apex or going into a turn you will immediately be facing the opposite direction in a fbody as it can be quite "tail happy"

I just finished a L03/700R4 to a 5.7 LS1/T56 swap. To be honest I don't think I will ever do another auto to manual swap. Its a lot more work than you realize if you want to keep everything 100% operational.
Cruise control wiring
Clutch safety switch
Clutch master, pedals
Shift light
cutting the hole in the tunnel (obvious)
Then you realize your rear gear is horribly matched to the gear ratios in the manual so ... new rear (might as well get one you can't break right)

If you are dead set on the conversion the cheapest rout would be to find a donor car. Get the parts you need, part out the rest. Depending on your dedication and condition of the parts car you can come in real cheap doing this as the individual parts are worth more than the entire car right now. Or you may find a manual and end up keeping that and selling your current car.

I did have a VW with a factory "manual" shift mode I never really liked shifting it manually though even under sporty driving, and that had a dual dry clutch auto so other than the computer handling the clutch for you it actually shifted when you told it to (well with a little delay like all those). It wasn't paddles but it was console shift **** you moved it over to the right and then you had up/down. Its just not the same and if you have alot of time on a manual to be honest your muscle memory gets in the way and you want to come off the gas and hit the clutch to shift... but you don't have to. I've driven paddle shift cars and not a fan though I've never raced one.

Aviator857

https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...addle_Shifter/ that could be pretty fun but probably no cheaper than doing a manual conversion in the end.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

I''ve had a B&M ratchet shifter for over 12 years. Ran with the stock trans for years until i rebuilt my 700r4 using Dana's Probuilt kit. Nothing wrong with either set up. The 700r4 is now built to carry 675hp. In stock form the B&M is a fun shifter.

Galaxie500XL

iTrader: (1)

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

If you're just driving for fun, I'd suggest looking at the T5 over the T56. It'll last a long time if you're not dumping the clutch with sticky tires every day. .....and if you ARE drag racing, as noted the auto will shift MUCH faster and likely suit you better.

....but for fun? Manual all day.

gpwasr10

That is a lot to take in...

Looks like I need to talk to a tranny build and see about downshifting their units (I know I can do it by quickly flooring to nail the shift change and then manually selecting that gear to hold it). I may put this on hold for now (Or just do the slap shifter anyways, because why not?) and just do a Header Back Exhaust while I have it up on blocks... maybe some coil overs while it is up there, and the rear end Ring and Pinion (As that is sure to liven things up).

Basically do things I know for sure I will like, and then stew on this, who knows... maybe the right trans will fall into my lap while I deliberate making the choice easier.

Thanks!

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Probably one of the best responses i have read lately. Think things through. And just for an FYI, you can manually downshift your tranny as long as your not extreme on it. Like don't go from 3rd down to 2nd and hit 5 grand on the tach. You can manually up shift also and hold the rpm a little longer than a stock shift also. The main thing to know, is have your TV cable adjusted properly. If your not sure how to do it, here is the info; https://www.thirdgen.org/detent/

gpwasr10

Hell yeah, dude! I really appreciate your input on this, and it has me leaning towards a beardy 700R4 Auto.. but I want to make sure so I need to drive a slap shifted car.

I got stage 1 of my winter projects done (The AC Compressor was SHOT and it leaked all the juice out and was just dripping oil at this point so, for the time being I, recovered what charge remained, yanked the compressor ,the accumulator and the line set and replaced it with a single roller shiv.



This gave me a TON more room on the passenger side for doing the header install. I am thinking the Hooker 2055s, and the y pipe... It has an aftermarket Cat Back exhaust but I think it is a 2.5" :-( so looks like that will have to be replaced as well (And maybe that's a good thing). I cannot weld for ****, so I am hoping I can install whatever 3" exhaust I get with clamps, loctite and love.

My New Floor Jack, creeper and stands should be here when I get back from Chi Town Next week so I will toss it up and really see what it looks like under there.

Also, if that is your Camaro in the Thumbnail.. that ride looks **** hot!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

firebrdo88

iTrader: (1)

A Manual valve body th400 is fun for sure. It is so much better than any built 700R4. Completely changed the car. It is the best mod I have ever done. 700R4 first gear is just pointless with big power.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Depends on what you want, need, or can afford.

The stock 700R4 can be built to handle more power than the T5, and if you already have one then it's definitely going to be cheaper than a swap to something manual that can handle similar power as a built 700.

Auto's are generally more consistent at the track for inexperienced drivers, and when you get into BIG power, auto's are king of the hill. Powerglides can be bought to handle upwards of 4000 HP or more and aren't even that expensive considering what they can handle.

GD

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

I have a built reverse manual 700r4 with a constant pressure valve body (no more TV Cable) with a B&M ratchet shifter and I'd still say a manual transmission is funner for general driving but the reverse manual auto makes the car feel like a purpose built speed demon.

Down shifting sucks and doesn't feel too good, I don't have many miles of seat time with this set up yet but I avoid downshifting. I was at my trans builder's shop the other day picking up another reverse manual 700r4 for my brothers camaro and forgot to ask him about downshifting and how to do it correctly if there even is a safe way of doing it. I tried to rev match it like a manual but it still felt weird and lunges.

The reverse manual does make it a pain to drive on the street, mine has engine braking so once i let off the gas my engine is still hanging up at higher rpms until i slow down. It's like driving a stick car without the ability to disengage the clutch and throw it into neutral when you want to come to a stop. this is the biggest annoyance I have with it because it takes away the fluid feeling of driving. but then again, this transmission build isn't really for street use at all.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

it takes a few bucks..but the 6 pinon planet for the 700R4 makes it a close ratio (more like the th400) gearing.. and with a overdrive..

gpwasr10

Thanks, guys! Still noodling on it! Awesome input though. The 6 pinion planetary sounds interesting...

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

6 pinon plant..when they started out a few years ago the price was $1000 ..lol they are down to $500 now only buy it from sonnex..stand up guys.. the last set of hard parts I shelled out. for my 700R4 upgrade was a tad over $3200/$3500.. but this was for the best stuff made for the 700R4..buy the time assembly & converter and a few other small parts
(I started out with a stripped case..NOTHING) was done this ricky race 700R4 came to $4200...ya crazy.. done in 2017/2018..there is a place now selling a unit 700R4..with about every thing I did to mine for $3500.. every thing but the cryo treating of parts..

I wanted my over drive to hold up to a bit of racing...no kick down cable as well...going to hit it with a bit HP..before spray
you don't have to spend anything close to crazy like I did to get it to hold up to 500HP..i still have my first 700R4 sitting on a shelf..it ran fantastic to the day I pulled it out..it is so nice working I did not want to hack it up like I did the 2nd unit like I just did...but I will tell you. if this 2nd unit holds up like sonnax tells me it will..I will add the same mods to it for a back up trany..just in case...crazy

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

NO.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The nice thing about an auto trans is that it shifts automatically. Downshifting an auto can be violent and bumping through all the gears gets annoying after a few minutes. Girls want to look good riding in the car, not look epileptic.

When I was young I had a beautiful late model Corvette and asked a nice girl on a date. Instead, I showed up in my primer color '68 El Camino with Hurst Lightning Rod shifters, hard shifting 3-speed auto, drag racing Trick Springs, locker, smelly carburetor, loud exhaust, and no AC.... I remember I had a great time driving that Elky! Don't remember a 2nd date though.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

some guys like getting a cramp in there left leg..when driving there Manual shift transmissions..and holding in the clutch..every few sec.in city driving...it all comes down to what ya like to drive...is all.. stock like cars with a stick are always fun..

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

What makes an automatic transmission fun is a really good torque converter.

RS Chris

Street/strip play car, manual will be a lot of fun.

Daily driver, auto is the way to go.

If you haven't driven a stick much and live somewhere with a lot of traffic you will not enjoy it as much. But there is something about the old stab and grab of a manual that will always make you smile, when driven properly.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Until you miss a gear in front of some people.

RS Chris

^^Or worse you money shift it. Going to 1st instead of 3rd, or 2nd instead of 4th. Never been there myself but seen plenty of videos.

CanadianWrenchman

Well, they aren't easily directly comparable. The ratchet shifters are of course, clutchless, so no dumping of that. I have a built 700R4 with a Transgo shift kit, being controlled by a B&M Quiksilver Ratchet shifter. My 350 makes about 350hp/350tq and is decently built, and pairs up quite nicely to this shifter. I CNC'd a custom diamond plate shifter plate for it with "IROC-Z" cut into it and backed by a piece of red plastic so when I turn on the car it lights up. I find the ratchet shifter very crisp and quite a conversation starter when I have passengers. The only pain in the *** is when you look like a tool sequentially bumping and clanking out of a tight parking lot, jumping in and out of reverse with metallic clicks. I would strongly suggest it, still though. Drop that baby into first when leaving somewhere, and let er' have it to get some attention. I like it so much that I actually am trying to duplicate it on my 4L80e right now, as I am in the midst of a 6.0L LS swap. But due to the newer style of electronic shift solenoids in the LS, and me being a poor student (can't afford a controller), it is quite iffy to do.

Aaron R.

I drive a 1985 Z28 with 305 and T5.
My wife drives a 1987 IROC with 350 TPI and 700R4.

My 1985 is a little more fun to drive because of the T5, but every time I drive hers I'm reminded of how comfortable and easy hers drives with the auto. They are daily drivers for us, so as much as I like the "fun" of the manual tranny I have to admit the automatic is pretty nice to have. And in heavy traffic I get tired of my T5 fast. I have already decided that if anything ever happens to my car I will replace it with whatever I can find, whether auto or stick. Both have their pros/cons. I have swapped out transmissions before on pickups, and I don't think I would swap an automatic out for a manual on a Camaro. Just too much cutting / modifying for me any more.

Snaps_Provolone

I think it depends on how you drive the car. For straight line acceleration I want an automatic, torque multiplication! If the car is to be driven on road courses and oval track type driving then a stick can't be beat. For a daily driver on the street it comes down to preference, I love my automatics.

Tremo

Come on man. You want fun? No slush box will ever be as much fun as grinding through the gears by hand with foot on clutch.

92Z

iTrader: (1)

The T56 has better gear splits than the 700R4, especially if you have a built motor.

firefox7518

I've rebuild my th700 with the Sonnax 1st Gear ratio change and i'm really loving it. I used a Monster in a box kit. I live in Switzerland and getting all the parts necessary over here is tedious task and will cost you a lot of hairs :-) So I thought such a kit is the only solution for me and it worked out really well. I ordered all options, incl. the Sonnax new 1st Gear ratio a 2400 Stall converter etc. The useless 1st gear is now a really usable one making the th700 much more fun to drive. Also the rest feels snapier and more precise than before.

Kingtal0n

Auto for daily driving (reliability, consistency, forget its there) and racing (the fastest cars are auto)


manual for just messing around (for fun), its slower and its more work. But it can be done for love